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Substances that facilitate lucid dreaming – A Case Study

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Ufostrahlen

Ufostrahlen

xͭ͆͝͏̮͔̜t̟̬̦̣̟͉͈̞̝ͣͫ͞,̡̼̭̘̙̜ͧ̆̀̔ͮ́ͯͯt̢̘̬͓͕̬́ͪ̽́sͫ͗
OG Pioneer
The lesser known and more recent work by Thomas Yuschak

Substances that facilitate lucid dreaming – A Case Study

A test matrix utilizing six different supplements:
galantamine, huperzine A, nicotine, bupropion, propranolol, and an amino acid blend was used to show that lucid dreams are strongly facilitated when two neurochemical events take place simultaneously: (1) dopaminergic and adrenergic stimulation coupled with (2) cholinergic and/or glutamateric stimulation. The substances were chosen due to their different pharmacological properties and several combinations resulted in lucid dreams 100% of the time. The two most successful combinations were galantamine/propranolol and the amino acid blend however other combinations also led to very high success rates: huperzine/bupropion, galantamine/nicotine, and huperzine/nicotine. The summary of this work indicates that vivid dream states can be induced using cholinergic, glutamateric, dopaminergic, and adrenergic stimulation either independentlyor in various combinations, which in turn leads to an increase in odds of inducing a lucid dream.

[PDF]Substances that facilitate lucid dreaming – A Case Study:
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The amino acid blend sounds interesting, since you get medicinal Galantamine in Europe only by prescription.

Edit August 2014: Galantamine available EU wide as supplement via eBay UK as "Vivitamine".
 
Apart from galantamine & Choline which you just mentioned from the top of my head
Oneirogenic herbs & plants:

-Calea Zacatechichi/Ternifolia (mexican dream herb)
-Entaada Rheedii (African Dream bean)
-Silene Capensis (Undlela ziimhlophe or African Dream Root)


It's interresting to note that a smartshop website sells a package of 3 ubulawu(South-african sacred plants), 2 of which are new to me as Oneirogens:
-Rhus pauciflorus (Uqume)
-Acacia xanthophloea (Mukanya kude)
 
Nice find, Ufostrahlen! I have his first book, Advanced Lucid Dreaming, The Power of Supplements. Good stuff.:thumb_up:

Du57mi73 said:
Why does diazepam help it then?
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Often when you first start lucid dreaming you can get so excited when you realize you're dreaming that it causes you to lose focus and the dream either fades out and you wake up, or you lose lucidity and it turns into a regular dream.

Maybe the diazepam and the propranolol calm you down so you can focus better and stay lucid?
 
SpartanII said:
Nice find, Ufostrahlen! I have his first book, Advanced Lucid Dreaming, The Power of Supplements. Good stuff.:thumb_up:
Click to expand...

I was also puzzled to find a more recent work from TY as he somehow vanished from the scene. Moreover I was glad to find out that I'm not the only one, who doesn't get effects from HupA. Saved me some bucks that I can now invest into the AA blend.

Btw, all credits go to www.klartraum-wiki.de/wiki/Substanzen which I browsed yesterday.

They also mention:

Effects of pyridoxine on dreaming: a preliminary study.

The effect of pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) on dreaming was investigated in a placebo, double-blind study to examine various claims that Vitamin B-6 increases dream vividness or the ability to recall dreams. 12 college students participated in all three treatment conditions, each of which involved ingesting either 100 mg B-6, 250 mg B-6, or a placebo prior to bedtime for a period of five consecutive days. The treatment conditions were completely counterbalanced and a two-day wash-out period occurred between the three five-day treatment blocks. Morning self-reports indicated a significant difference in dream-salience scores (this is a composite score containing measures on vividness, bizarreness, emotionality, and color) between the 250-mg condition and placebo over the first three days of each treatment. The data for dream salience suggests that Vitamin B-6 may act by increasing cortical arousal during periods of rapid eve movement (REM) sleep. An hypothesis is presented involving the role of B-6 in the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin. However, this first study needs to be replicated using the same procedures and also demonstrated in a sleep laboratory before the results can be considered certain.

Effects of pyridoxine on dreaming: a preliminary study - PubMed
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I'm going to check that out as well.
 
(2) cholinergic and/or glutamateric stimulation.
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I just wanted to note that im almost 90% sure that this is why smoking weed kills dreams, and they are drastically returned to you upon halting cannibis use, as cannibis is an anticholinergic.
 
The study uses only one subject--one guy, who tested on himself. It had me a bit excited about the amino mix, with 100 percent success but then I read this thread and saw some mixed results:


L-aspartic acid, L-glutamine, L-theanine.

(the aminos are still interesting, of course.))

Weed is great--but so is dreaming. I quit weed recently--enjoying dreams again and interested in getting back into LD. Thanks for posting this.

More work needs to be done with daffodils:

 
Doodazzle said:
The study uses only one subject--one guy, who tested on himself. It had me a bit excited about the amino mix, with 100 percent success but then I read this thread and saw some mixed results:


L-aspartic acid, L-glutamine, L-theanine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this, Doodazzle. At least we know now that it isn't a fraudulent pdf based on someones ego. I'm not super excited to spend some good money on AAs, but on the other side I don't have access to good dream supplements and my Caleas need 7 further months to get harvested. If I have success with any supplement, I'll post a trip/dream report. Currently I'm at Day 1 with 300 mg Vitamin B6, 300 mg Vitamin B1, 360 mg Magnesium & 30 mg Zinc before bedtime, no success.

+1 for the Galantamine TEK, but I'm a bloody chem noob, can't contribute much there.
 
So I did not take any suplements last night but i thought I'd mention this:


Took me awhile to fall asleep last night. After 5 hours sleep I woke up--on my own at 9 am, in the midst of a vivd dream. I was all poised to go back to sleep and enter a lucid dream.... Last night i had said to my g/f 'please wake me by 9 am'. My sleep schedule's been pretty good--waking up 6 am to 7 am on my own with no alarm or anything, but in the past week I've gone way off. Anyway, so I wake up at 9 (after 5 hours of sleep) I say to my "g/f please let me sleep another half hour". I remember my request to her last night, and knew she would not let me go back to sleep--so I added "I have an experiment to do" Man, she came back at me with some snarkiness--just doing as I had previously requested.

Fooey. new rule in my house--if someone asks for an extra half-hour of sleep, it is granted.
 
Some time ago I started a topic requesting information on how to extract Galantamine from Daffodills and Snowdrops.


appearantly it's not too difficult, ethanol & water do the job, but someone there warned me of a toxin, Lycorine,
found in N.Confusus bulbs. Not sure if this toxin is found in other parts of N.Confusa so it may be risky consuming any N.Confusus extract unless you preamptively wash it to get rid of any Lycorine that may be present.
 
Ufostrahlen said:
SpartanII said:
Nice find, Ufostrahlen! I have his first book, Advanced Lucid Dreaming, The Power of Supplements. Good stuff.:thumb_up:
Click to expand...

I was also puzzled to find a more recent work from TY as he somehow vanished from the scene. Moreover I was glad to find out that I'm not the only one, who doesn't get effects from HupA. Saved me some bucks that I can now invest into the AA blend.

Btw, all credits go to www.klartraum-wiki.de/wiki/Substanzen which I browsed yesterday.

They also mention:

Effects of pyridoxine on dreaming: a preliminary study.

The effect of pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) on dreaming was investigated in a placebo, double-blind study to examine various claims that Vitamin B-6 increases dream vividness or the ability to recall dreams. 12 college students participated in all three treatment conditions, each of which involved ingesting either 100 mg B-6, 250 mg B-6, or a placebo prior to bedtime for a period of five consecutive days. The treatment conditions were completely counterbalanced and a two-day wash-out period occurred between the three five-day treatment blocks. Morning self-reports indicated a significant difference in dream-salience scores (this is a composite score containing measures on vividness, bizarreness, emotionality, and color) between the 250-mg condition and placebo over the first three days of each treatment. The data for dream salience suggests that Vitamin B-6 may act by increasing cortical arousal during periods of rapid eve movement (REM) sleep. An hypothesis is presented involving the role of B-6 in the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin. However, this first study needs to be replicated using the same procedures and also demonstrated in a sleep laboratory before the results can be considered certain.

Effects of pyridoxine on dreaming: a preliminary study - PubMed
Click to expand...
I'm going to check that out as well.
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So I have been having a difficult time remembering my dreams for quite some time now. Last night I decided to take some vit B6 after having read this thread the other day. Guess what. I had almost my usually normal dream depth that I used to have. Strong, realistic, full color, looooong, emotional... ect ect.

I had taken 1 - 200mg Pyridoxine Hydrochloride timed release tablet about 20 minutes before bed. I am going to continue the rest of this week doing the same. Then possibly upping my dose next week. Anyone know of the dose range of B6? Like how much is too much?
 
anrchy said:
I am going to continue the rest of this week doing the same. Then possibly upping my dose next week. Anyone know of the dose range of B6? Like how much is too much?
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Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) causes neuropathy at intakes of 1000 mg per day or more, which is about 800 times the daily intake from foods. There have also been occasional reports of toxicity at intakes of 100-300 mg per day. The US authorities set the no-observed-adverse-effect-level at 200 mg per day and the safe upper limit at 100 mg per day. A report of neurotoxicity in 2 patients who had taken 24 mg and 40 mg of vitamin B6 per day respectively, may be coincidence rather than a true toxic effect of such relatively low doses. However, physicians need to remain alert to high intakes of vitamin B6 as a cause of unexplained neuropathy.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[How much vitamin B6 is toxic?] - PubMed

Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) causes neuropathy at intakes of 1000 mg per day or more, which is about 800 times the daily intake from foods. There have also been occasional reports of toxicity at intakes of 100-300 mg per day. The US authorities set the no-observed-adverse-effect-level at 200 mg per...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Unless you have a Vitamin B6 allergy, you probably be fine with 200 mg/d for a couple of days.

I took 300 mg/d before bedtime in five consecutive days and experienced no adverse effect. Dreams didn't become much vivid or lucid at all, so I won't follow that strategy any longer.

My AA blend arrived this morning, so I have plenty more substances to experiment with.
 
Ive tried a few things to try an get my dreaming back but nothing was solid. I have been getting slight dream recall for the last several months now but I chalk that up mostly to more awareness, more thought put into trying to remember dreams.

Calea gave me massive headaches the day after and onnits supplements didnt seem to effect them. Although now that I have at least increased my likelihood of dream recall I may revisit a few supplements.
 
When I used to frequent the Dreamviews forums, a long time ago, I remember DVmembers discussed several supposed dream aids all the time:
-Applejuice(Fresh, not from concentrate)
-Peanutbutter
-Aged Cheese ( An old "folk-knowledge" sais that aged Cheese might induce Nightmares(Read; vivid dreams)
Alot of DV members swore by them.( Most of them swore by vitamin B-6 & Choline +Galantamine too)

What chemical substances could these supposed dream aids contain to explain their effects on dreams?
In the aged cheese: Perhaps the Tyrosine? All I know about Peanutbutter is that it's full of iron. What is known of Iron's effects on dreams?
As for what chemical in applejuice could be making dreams more vivid: No idea.

This needs more research.
 
From what I have gathered it seems different nutrients work for different people. None of the usuals have worked for me yet. Im hoping that the B6 wasnt a fluke.

Its possible I think that an imbalance in nutrition can cause failed recall. Stress, depression, general unhappiness could all cause this as well. There seem to be a lot of variables.

I know some deficiencies in certain nutrients cause your body to deplete itself of others so this could possibly explain the peanut butter and apple juice in some people.
 
SKA said:
When I used to frequent the Dreamviews forums, a long time ago, I remember DVmembers discussed several supposed dream aids all the time:
-Applejuice(Fresh, not from concentrate)
-Peanutbutter
-Aged Cheese ( An old "folk-knowledge" sais that aged Cheese might induce Nightmares(Read; vivid dreams)
Alot of DV members swore by them.( Most of them swore by vitamin B-6 & Choline +Galantamine too)

What chemical substances could these supposed dream aids contain to explain their effects on dreams?
In the aged cheese: Perhaps the Tyrosine? All I know about Peanutbutter is that it's full of iron. What is known of Iron's effects on dreams?
As for what chemical in applejuice could be making dreams more vivid: No idea.

This needs more research.
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Indeed.

Well, apparently acetylcholinesterase inhibition plays a big role in it...maybe those other dream aids work in a similar way?

Also, magnesium supplements seem to supercharge my dreams if taken right before sleep. Increased vividness, clarity, lots of flying and swimming dreams. It also has the benefit of physically relaxing your body which is great for sleep! :thumb_up: I've read several other reports of people using magnesium supplements as dream-boosters so their might be something to this.

It seems to work best if I don't take it every day and just take a good amount (300-400 mg) before bedtime, along with a B vitamin complex to synergize (love that word!) and maybe some ginkgo biloba or gotu kola for increased blood flow to the brain.

I also only take magnesium citrate (as Natural Calm) because it's highly soluble and bioavailable, more so than the standard mag supplements like magnesium oxide. Magnesium bioavailability from magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide - PubMed
 
Day 1 with the AA blend:

* listened ~ 45 min to binaural beats (4hz) &
* gulped down 360 mg of magnesium citrate, 30 mg zinc gluconate and a 225 mg time-delayed releasing vitamin C pill (standard intake of mine before going to bed)
* slept ~ 4 h then woke up
* ingested 2 g L-Asp, 4 g L-Glut & 2x 200 mg pills of L-Theanine, then went back to bed
* stomach cramps, so I ate 2 puffed rice cakes with a chocolate coating and they went away
* woke up after ~ 5 h with a slightly better dream recall (no vivid dreams)
* body feels heavy after getting up, in the same fashion as if I would have ingested 1-2 valerian/hops pills (225 mg/30 mg 6:1/14:1) instead of the AA blend.
 
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