suggestion - moving away from extraction teks

[Jin]

maybe this is going to be a little controversial

yet it feels like its time to move away from extraction teks and threads with questions regarding extraction

over time there have been countless threads regarding extractions , mostly asking redundant and useless questions over and over again , obviously newbies to extraction need this knowledge , yet this knowledge could be stored in the wiki or a special subforum , where newbies can get help yet without starting any more threads

infact all extraction talks must be suspended permanently

the most important question is why ?

well some time back The Nexus moved away from talks regarding bark sourcing , as this is not what this place is about , this place is about knowledge , learning and evolution

and what is the learning in more and more threads about extractions ? its a simple procedure , there is no need for more threads

also when logging on The Nexus and reading threads like - Hacking DNA with 3d printers , simulation hypothesis , or threads on philosophy and spirituality .........it feels like The Nexus ,

but when reading threads like - Should I strain my bark after completing my acid boils? ..... well threads like this dont feel like The Nexus atall

more and more extraction teks does not feel like research , perhaps there was a time when this was required , yet now even foodsafe teks exist so what is the point ? and especially threads asking redundant questions ......

real research is what endlessness , snozz , nen (and countless other nexians ) are doing and that should go on .....

this place is about learning , sharing and expanding and this place should continue to move in this direction

moving in the direction of real research rather than superflous research

obviously the extraction teks should be kept in the wiki , where they already are and can be accessed easily , things like the separation of the NMT and DMT should be in the wiki aswell

recently erowid and Maps got more funds to carry out the good work , and Nexus should be on the list aswell ,

yet more and more extraction talk does not serve this purpose

The Nexus is the forum for psychedelic talk and should continue to be so ...... a platform for discussing things like enligtenment , splicing the dna , psychology and much more

quality over quantity ,

what do the nexians feel about this ?

 

[Umantis]

Often teks are not fully articulated, and answers to simple questions may not be as obvious as it may seem to those who are more experienced. Scarcity of certain resources creates a need for new techniques to be developed. From this point of view I enjoy simple questions asked anew as it reminds me either to rehearse and reinforce the fundamentals or to rethink the process and potentially make progress toward a new technique. What if "straining the bark" (to use your example) was the one magic step that everyone had tried except for me, and no one had mentioned it before and I didn't even know to ask, and now i have great success where I had previously failed.

Worthwhile to mention; the search tool provides answers only to those who know the question, and this talent ought not be taken for granted. i only get irritated when the question receives a harsh response without assistance, or when novice questions are discouraged; that's the real noise any forum of explorative learning would do well to prevent.

The Nexus is the forum to discuss dmt, and until the day it rains pure crystals from the sky* extraction is part of that experience. i don't mind all the thought-provoking chitchat or controversy but i do consider all of that to be auxiliary to the central theme of this fantastic forum.

(*sweet jesus how long must we wait?)

 

[Orion]

Perhaps if we had a guide as to the basic chemistry and how things work instead of a simple 'do this, do that'... there will be less questions to ask ? A sort of theory guide rather than a tek, so that people can not just do, but understand what they are doing from the beginning.

 

[Swinjin]

Perhaps if we had a guide as to the basic chemistry and how things work instead of a simple 'do this, do that'... there will be less questions to ask ? A sort of theory guide rather than a tek, so that people can not just do, but understand what they are doing from the beginning.

:thumb_up:

 

[1ce]

I'll admit, I get frustrated with the surplus stupid questions,.. but why does it matter if they're all in the newbie forums?

Secondly, there's more to extracting than what meets the eye. Even LSD starts from a humble extraction. There's so many plants and resources out there for our taking, yet aren't as simple as a mimosa extraction. While I agree most extractions here reinvent the wheel, there's plenty room for development still.

Most of the people reading the teks have only ever done a crude caffeine extraction in their life time. (And they even consume the solvent, what gives???) Some questions are clear lazyness, while others are honest confusion. We all started off with the same amount of knowledge, at different points in our lives.

 

[Jin]

there's plenty room for development still

yes this exactly , development and evolution should continue , this is not about discouraging research

for example things like - adding salt for greater yields , separating nmt from dmt , isolating 5meo from dmt is real good research , this should continue

and as soon as something new is discovered , analysed and accepted , it should be added to the wiki , just like at some point it was discovered the n-oxide could be reduced back to dmt through zinc , then this was added to the wiki

after this the wiki should be consulted for the answers rather than the forum , there is no need of hundreds of threads asking about the n-oxide conversion

the idea is to put all the answers out there , so that redundant questions will not be asked

research should go on and infact this is what this whole idea is about ,

if the same question is asked again and again , what kind of research is that

new questions must be asked and this should be encouraged ,

questions like what will feeding 5htp to mushrooms do ? (it will probably create a 5htp analogue which readily pass the BBB and help people out of depression better than 5htp)

why is this not being done , this is research , a new question

new questions must be asked while the old answers should be put out there in a clear and concise way

old questions should be discouraged and new questions must be encouraged ,

real research needs to be done , this is what the pioneers expect of The Nexus

 

[Bl1nd]

"moving in the direction of real research rather than superflous research"

Don't you have to go through the superfluous research to get to the good stuff? For me and many others, it's part of the journey and not just contained in the Nexus.

Full respect to everyone who has taken the time to write up their teks, offer refinement to others and give endless advice when needed.

As a recent newcomer, I feel there is a lot of work that needs to be done to many of them. So many inconsistencies, too general descriptions and written steps that could and have been easily misconstrued. All of which brings me back to us newcomers asking for constant clarification. Again this is for many people the Nexus journey and I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Jin]

this was only a suggestion

The Nexus should keep on going in the direction its going

in retrospect , it hardly matters atall whether extractions are discussed or not ,

everything is part of the whole

peace

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Perhaps if we had a guide as to the basic chemistry and how things work instead of a simple 'do this, do that'... there will be less questions to ask ? A sort of theory guide rather than a tek, so that people can not just do, but understand what they are doing from the beginning.

:thumb_up:

You mean...like this?

DMT Extraction Overview

Quality work by entro, as always.

If harm reduction wasn't a legit issue with the number of people now trying extractions, I'd push to replace all the extractions with an updated version of this post. That said, harm reduction is an important part of what we do here, especially given the surge in popularity of DMT.

We should acknowledge that we played a role in this. While we should definitely be advancing research, we can't just close off the things that we've already opened. People are at different places in their explorations and even though many of the teks are quite simple and straightforward at this point, if having them posted and allowing for simple questions means one less person smoking product with rust inhibitor or plastic in it (or doing something unfortunate with lye or volatile solvents on open flames) then we kind of have to keep them up and engage with the questions.

We contributed (likely significantly) to making DMT one of the fastest growing drugs as far as new users. Imo, that's not something we can simply sidestep. We have to find pragmatic ways of dealing with the implications of this. As much as possible, we try to utilize the "what the FAQ" thread to minimize spoonfeeding, but this is a community. If you see people asking for spoonfeeding on information that isn't posing a direct hazard (like "do I need to strain my bark" or similar), call them out. That makes it easier for us to notice/move such posts.

It's a balancing act. It's always going to be. I guess the question for all of us is, what can we contribute? If there is research you are interested in, whether extractions, or botanical research, or whatever...please do it and share it. That's how the vast majority of stuff has happened here. One or two people decided to make something happen and then found support from others (or not) and pushed through until they have something to share.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

As a recent newcomer, I feel there is a lot of work that needs to be done to many of them. So many inconsistencies, too general descriptions and written steps that could and have been easily misconstrued.

The thing is...if you actually understand the principles behind what you are doing, you shouldn't need the specifics. It doesn't matter if tek 1 gives one volume and tek 2 another...or if they have differing times for various steps. If you understand the principles, you see the different routes to the same goal and realize that all of the teks are just different collections of techniques aiming at the same principles. A tek can be written in a handful of lines with only vague quantities and it should be more than adequate to convey the necessary steps to someone who understands the principles behind an extraction. In one sense, if you understand the "why" then the "how" becomes secondary.

 

[anrchy]

I think one of the issues is a newbie extractor wants to get it done right the first time and is worried about failure, especially since bark isn't common. Imo with failure comes learning. People also are showing their inability to be motivated to do their own research, this is proven in the recent addition of the questionnaire.

I feel like we need to tighten the reigns a little.

 

[Bl1nd]

Agreed that all newcomers including myself could exhaust research on the concepts of extractions better but we all learn by experience and making mistakes is often the best way to learn better processes. Saying that...

There may be some newcomers who are just in a rush (positive excitement) to make spice to experience the potentially healing properties that they've only heard/read and in the process try to cut corners. A force of nature and I feel in any community, there people make up a small percentage.

Anrchy has a valid point, souring bark is a process in itself and dedicating time in an already busy life (many of us with families) to the whole process, it's little wonder that people want to nail it first time.

I've really enjoyed the process of completing my first two extractions, the first with some success and the jury out on the second as it's in in freezer at this moment. I'm certain I asked a couple of silly questions but on the whole I did my research here and in many other ways. I can hopefully see myself repaying the favour and helping those out who need it in time by listing my mistakes.

Maybe an idea would be to drip feed certain threads until people become full members? Feed people a little of the teks, but politely push them to the basic chemistry info (organic chem survival handbook for me was a godsend). If there was a 2-3 tiered process to full access, would/could that help.

Maybe a separate questionnaire for the tek info. It could have sections such as sustainable practice, personal protective equipment, basic chemistry 101, which solvents, workspace set up. I feel this could be more value to the community as opposed to the more abstract questions in the current questionnaire.

I feel that the Nexus has bred a monster. A big fluffy, awesome, smiling monster! DMT is exploding in this psychedelic renaissance and to cut people off completely I feel could do more harm. People are waking up and the more people learn to extract competently in their own homes, I feel, the less street grade DMT/changa would be sold which is a good thing.

Always thankful for what I've found and thanking all the mods for keeping this community a positive experience. Peace.