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Supercritical Gas Extraction of Source Material?

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idtravlr

idtravlr

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My apologies if this topic has already been covered. I searched and couldn't find anything, so I'm guessing it hasn't.

Has anyone experimented with high pressure (supercritical or subcritical) gas extraction of DMT from MHRB, Chacruna, or any other source material? I don't know a lot about this technology, but I do know a guy who uses this method for Kratom extraction. I know it's prohibitively expensive unless you already have a pressure system for professional use, but I'm curious if it's been experimented with or is even possible. I'd love to hear from anyone who has tried it.

Peace,
-idt
 
Resurrecting this thread (or lack thereof). :)

Has no one on here either experimented with, or at least been curious about gas extraction teks? I would find it surprising if not, but maybe not...?
 
the technique is called SFE...supercritical fluid extraction
the equipment is rather expensive, in the $1000's; and, of course, it requires large gas cylinders with multi-stage regulators, and a system controller. Carbon Dioxide is the most commonly used solvent, because it's the cheapest, but some systems also incorporate hexane in the mix.

it's very efficient, run times are typically around 20 mins or so, but other physical methods may be equally effective (i.e. microwave-assisted extraction, sonication) followed by traditional nonpolar solvent extraction

btw...if your friend uses a compressed gas like butane to do his kratom extractions, he's not doing a supercritical fluid extraction. no need to do an SFE on kratom either, because the mitragynine compounds are very soluble in polar solvents.

edt: check e.bay, they may have an occaisional deal, but make sure it has a controller. SFE is advantageous for nonpolar molecule extraction, like essential oils
 
Ok. At least now I know there is some interest out there, and that it actually sounds like a potentially viable method of extraction for spice.

Here are the systems & information I've been viewing in my research:
http://www.edenlabs.org/supercritical_extraction.html (I know NOTHING about this equipment supplier, so please do not take this as a solicitation or recommendation. I only posted the link for informational purposes).

benzyme - Thanks for all the info. The guy I know is using Supercritical C02 for his extractions. At least that what he has told me. I wouldn't call him a "friend", I just know the guy. I'm not sure how much info he will divulge, but I'm going to try and discuss things a bit more with him. He uses his system for commercial purposes, so it's not a sucking hole of cash for him. I'll probably approach him about extracting other common botanicals and see if I can't get a demo or something.

I'll post back here as I learn more. This technology just really intrigues me.

Peace,
-idt
 
benzyme said:
btw...if your friend uses a compressed gas like butane to do his kratom extractions, he's not doing a supercritical fluid extraction. no need to do an SFE on kratom either, because the mitragynine compounds are very soluble in polar solvents.
Click to expand...
Yes, it may sound fancy but for kratom alkaloids (and other alkaloids in general) SFE is very very very inefficient.

It might be good for salvinorin and thujone estractions though.
 
Just a thought, I may just be tired and over/under thinking this, I really don't know so bear with me....
What if lye and MHRB were mixed into the chamber then the Carbon Dioxide or some other NPS was added? Would this allow DMT to be extracted?
Or what if the bark was soaked in lye-water then allowed to dry? Would the DMT be in freebase form inside the bark and thus extractable?
 
Shrabbit420 said:
Or what if the bark was soaked in lye-water then allowed to dry? Would the DMT be in freebase form inside the bark and thus extractable?
Click to expand...
this is doable, in theory at least. To what extent someone would like to run highly concentrated lye in their horrendously expensive SFE apparatus (esp when there are so many other very efficient alternatives) is another issue though.
 
Yeah that was a thought I had, If it was stainless steel there wouldn't be problem though right?

Another thought would be trying to build my own, but an over simplified version and using an easier solvent, such as butane. Something like a chamber with a check valve and pressure regulator at the top, and the bottom would simply be a valve with a screen built in. All of it would be made to stand pressures way above what it would be operating at though.

Although it might be costly to build, it would make extraction very easy.
 
This is where I left off with this idea: Supercritical CO2 for the Entheogenic Hobbyist - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Currently, I could imagine packing semi or totally dry limtek basified material into an empty soda club or CO2 fire extinguisher, packing filtering material in over-top of it, sealing the tank with a valve, filling with CO2 while upright, then after a time, turning it upside down (perhaps the whole thing should be turned end over end periodically?) and releasing SC-CO2 through a hose onto a dish. Hopefully, freebase would be carried out and crystallize instantly.
 
In the video posted in your thread amor, they use dry ice(1$ a pound at grocery stores). Which if you could do something similar to what DOS said, using the subliming dry-ice as the pressure source. Sounds intriguing, I'd love to hear if anything came out of this.
 
Mydriasis said:
In the video posted in your thread amor, they use dry ice(1$ a pound at grocery stores). Which if you could do something similar to what DOS said, using the subliming dry-ice as the pressure source. Sounds intriguing, I'd love to hear if anything came out of this.
Click to expand...

That was merely a demonstration of how such an extraction works and would likely be quite dangerous to scale up since it may be difficult to gauge how much pressure the melted dry ice will produce.

Using the same technique used in refilling soda clubs (CO2 tanks like those used in paintball), the pressure can be monitored. The tricky part part of what I've proposed is the filtration and ensuring that the SC-CO2 flushes through the material adequately. It may be simple enough to stuff cotton in through the neck of the canister and prod it into place; there should be adequate space between the valve and the filter so that the valve will not be obstructed. Hopefully, when upside down, the pressure behind the SC-CO2 will be enough to essentially percolate through the material to the valve.
 
Excellent! This is the kind of collaboration / idea exchange I was hoping this thread would generate. My thought has been that there has been a lot of work done around here, creating home grown Soxhlet extraction devices, etc., and it seems like the opportunity for creating less expensive SFE (thanks for terminology clarification benzyme) setups is within reach. If I understand the technology right, it's not that different than Soxhlet extraction in theory... It simply uses different solvents and pressurization over heat / evaporation and distillation (I'm know I'm over simplifying things when I say this. I'm certainly no chemist).

I'm currently in the mindset of what Shrabbit420 said about the trade-off of initial cost vs ongoing ease and efficiency. I also see myself using such a setup for much more than just one type of extraction.

Anyway, I hope this continues to stir some innovation, and I will certainly update as learn more about my contact's setup.

Peace,
-idt
 
I will be making the setup I mentioned in my previous post, It will take some time before I save up enough money to invest in it though. Even if it doesn't work for MHRB, I will have a stainless steel honey oil extractor. I'm pretty sure I could find some other stuff to use in it as well. So it seems like a worthwhile investment to me aside from possibly making spice extraction faster/more efficient.
 
amor_fati said:
This is where I left off with this idea: Supercritical CO2 for the Entheogenic Hobbyist - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Currently, I could imagine packing semi or totally dry limtek basified material into an empty soda club or CO2 fire extinguisher, packing filtering material in over-top of it, sealing the tank with a valve, filling with CO2 while upright, then after a time, turning it upside down (perhaps the whole thing should be turned end over end periodically?) and releasing SC-CO2 through a hose onto a dish. Hopefully, freebase would be carried out and crystallize instantly.
Click to expand...
Thank you Sir! I have been digging for this. Apparently I just couldn't hit the key words right...

EDIT: :d :d Thank you so much for resurrecting the old link amor_fati! I was sure this approach had been visited before, but you just never know who it may have been
Peace,
-idt
 
I have friends very involved in the medical cannabis industry. There are groups of people in the PNW that use co2 for hash oil extractions. I've heard of people using brass piping, but what my friends use is a long reinforced glass tube that has been made by a skilled glass blower. There is an adapter for the line to go in and on these new ones they have something to make it safer, I think it may create a vacuum to force it through. On the bottom there is a glass mesh screen. These items are not huge, about the size of a large soxhlet, but they do work and process a lot of material quickly. I would assume that it could also be used with mimosa and I have thought about it, but never tried. It could easily be used for co2.

Their solvent of choice is iso-butane.
 
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