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Telepathy

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JDSalinger

JDSalinger

Rising Star
Recently experienced telepathy, it was amongst my partner and a close fried of ours. We were having a conversation in our minds the rate of communication was insane and we could shift something back and forth amongst ourself like a energy, it was arousing my in a nonsexual way, and i think that was true for the other two. Pushing that energy back and forth felt real, real good...we experienced this all for maybe five minutes.

While our brains were functioning on that level I was experiencing a sensation like a mind orgasam. I have experienced this sensation while in hyperspace.

I bought up a particular thing that we were communicating to each other, to validate the experience (some hours after the fact) and all three of us remember that very 'conversation' so so speak.

What happened is real only to the experiencers I understand that, my question is why was this all possible?

We were all on LSD at the time but all three of us had broken through on DMT before and had all seen maya, I believe that it was this level of understanding of the illusion that made it possible for this to happen.

Thoughts on the matter would be appreciated friends. Anywhere else I could not talk about this since people would think I'm crazy but I am more rational than I have ever been :)
 
JDSalinger said:
Recently experienced telepathy, it was amongst my partner and a close fried of ours. We were having a conversation in our minds the rate of communication was insane and we could shift something back and forth amongst ourself like a energy, it was arousing my in a nonsexual way, and i think that was true for the other two. Pushing that energy back and forth felt real, real good...we experienced this all for maybe five minutes.

While our brains were functioning on that level I was experiencing a sensation like a mind orgasam. I have experienced this sensation while in hyperspace.

I bought up a particular thing that we were communicating to each other, to validate the experience (some hours after the fact) and all three of us remember that very 'conversation' so so speak.

What happened is real only to the experiencers I understand that, my question is why was this all possible?

We were all on LSD at the time but all three of us had broken through on DMT before and had all seen maya, I believe that it was this level of understanding of the illusion that made it possible for this to happen.

Thoughts on the matter would be appreciated friends. Anywhere else I could not talk about this since people would think I'm crazy but I am more rational than I have ever been :)
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I know this feeling. I'd say it's because you were discussing things on the same wavelength, if that makes sense. The people you were talking to just seemed to "get it". Kind of vague, but you know the feeling. That's all that matters.
 
The whole 'psychedelic telepathy' thing is a really interesting phenomena, and it's hard to give it the attention it deserves without sounding completely off your rocker.

As a neuroscientist, I'm really hesitant to buy into the idea that there is some kind of information transmission that is 1) occurring nonverbally, and 2) is uniquely catalyzed by the psychedelic state. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the idea flies in the face of pretty much everything we know about how brains and information work. I see a few different possibilities:

1) The obvious one: there really is psychedelic telepathy, and we need to radically reorganize our understanding of brain function and communication. As far as I know, no one has proposed a possible mechanism by which this could occur. Psychedelic prohibition has made any study of this impossible, so it's impossible to get an objective sense of what might be going on.

2) The other obvious one: this is merely some kind of drug-induced delusion, and you're all just perceiving patterns where none exist because you're tripping balls. This is the option I instinctively like as it fits with my preconceived biases.

3) Communication is significantly more tied up in body-language than linguists currently believe, and it is possible to transmit complex thoughts and representations solely through body-language, and that when you're tripping, you're more able to decode this system of communication. This option could serve as a middle ground, but even so, it would require a pretty radical change in how linguists think about communication.

What we need are studies, plain and simple, and without some kind of controlled test, it will be impossible to come to any kind of conclusion that could stand up to scrutiny. The design should be simple:

Take 20 people and divide them into pairs (Person A and Person B). Give both medium - high doses of LSD. Give Person A a set of things to memorize in a particular order (numbers, shapes, words, etc), and keep this hidden from Person B. Put Person A and Person B in a room, tell them they are not allowed to communicate verbally and must sit as still as possible, and instruct Person A to communicate their list to Person B telepathically. At the end, ask Person B to write down whatever they think the list is.

With 10 groups of 2, you won't have a lot of statistical power, but that should be good enough to serve as a pilot study and give us a sense of whether there's anything at all worth pursuing here.

Blessings
~ND
 
Bodhisativa, I defiantly agree with you it is the getting it, that made what happened, happen.

Nathanial.Dread I have to take a more objective view of what happened since I am no longer under the effects of LSD. What I can verify is that we all believed we felt we were pushing a energy back and forth among ourselves, I was experiencing a low vibration at the back of my skull, which got stronger when it was pushed towards me and we thought we were hearing/feeling each other.

I am inclining more towards a greater level of understanding and awareness that was happening between the three of us. If this can be called telepathy I don't know?

The study sounds like a very good idea, I think though the participants must be very familiar with each other to begin with. Now we just need to find willing participants... 😉

One a side note I was talking to a very old wise Chinese friend of mine (he is 66) about Qigong, and he said his brothers were all in separate rooms and meditated for a very long time, he said that they all "broke through" and became "one". When they finished they all drew what they saw and the pictures all correlated. I know the story is hearsay but I trust the source, cool story nonetheless.
 
I've experienced telepathic communication and shared thoughts many times. LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, all have done this for me, particularly mushrooms (which this phenomena has happened the most).

The trick with this phenomena for me personally was having someone that I were really close with trip with me, or at most two more people other than myself, that I were close with. Typically we would be in a setting that was conducive to 'relaxing', just 'being' without all the silly distractions of phones, tvs, radios, other people, artificial lighting, cars, buildings, etc; eliminate distractive influence in order to open this inner-shared dialogue. Having a nice fire, holding the experiences late into the night out in the country or the forests - these have been the set of circumstances that have led to being able to repeat this phenomena consistently. (Not saying that this form of communication can't happen under other situations, it certainly can and will).

Once the mushrooms or whichever psychedelic is taken, we'd sit there and tell stories around the fire usually, or start cracking jokes to lighten the air, or a mix of both cracking jokes and telling stories. Doing this seemed to nurture and coax this phenomena into life. It would all start with us in a very lightened free-flowing mood/dialogue. I'd then go to form a thought or specific scenario in my mind only to have the other person either start laughing at what id thought up or would externally verbalize a response to what id said/thought or word-for-word repeat what id had said. This would go on for a good while, like riding many waves, this phenomena would come and go, albeit consistently. Eventually, this phenomena would go from 'me thinking - them verbalizing a response' to 'me thinking - them thinking back and thus communicating non verbally through this shared mind', the latter being nearly instantaneous. This would then usually turn into a fun game between us. The key ime is for it to stay 'fun', stay 'joking', stay in the trickster essence of the mushroom, or as with any psychedelic experience in general - stay in a playful mood.


** Also to add, my bestfriend and me, she and I have these instances without psychedelics, although not with the easibility that psychs can facilitate. And also, these moments between us are much more fleeting and intermittent, compared to being able to hold and bathe in these shared-streams of thought during the psychedelic state. But for doing this at baseline it's the same set of circumstances as when taking a psychedelic - staying in a playful mood, having fun, joking, completely relaxed (both mentally and physically), and no distractions. Often too around these scenarios are sets of synchronous events, which not sure if they're correlated, but pretty interesting nonetheless.
 
Jin said:
Nathanial.Dread said:
As far as I know, no one has proposed a possible mechanism by which this could occur
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mirror neuron overdrive ,
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See #3 then. There still must be some transmission of information, a medium through which signals propagate and an algorithm by which they are encoded/decoded. It's got to come through vision, hearing, or one of the other five senses, and it's got to be a flexible enough system that (apparently) complex ideas can be transmitted and understood with a high degree of accuracy.

Not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see something a little more robust than 'mirror neurons.' MNs have become sort of a catch-all in when people are trying to explain how some seemingly inexplicable phenomena happens in the brain.

Blessings
~ND
 
Take 20 people and divide them into pairs (Person A and Person B). Give both medium - high doses of LSD. Give Person A a set of things to memorize in a particular order (numbers, shapes, words, etc), and keep this hidden from Person B. Put Person A and Person B in a room, tell them they are not allowed to communicate verbally and must sit as still as possible, and instruct Person A to communicate their list to Person B telepathically. At the end, ask Person B to write down whatever they think the list is.
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You can't rule out body language if A and B can see each other. Wouldn't it be better to put them in different rooms?
 
hixidom said:
Take 20 people and divide them into pairs (Person A and Person B). Give both medium - high doses of LSD. Give Person A a set of things to memorize in a particular order (numbers, shapes, words, etc), and keep this hidden from Person B. Put Person A and Person B in a room, tell them they are not allowed to communicate verbally and must sit as still as possible, and instruct Person A to communicate their list to Person B telepathically. At the end, ask Person B to write down whatever they think the list is.
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You can't rule out body language if A and B can see each other. Wouldn't it be better to put them in different rooms?
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If you wanted to make sure that it was true telepathy, yes. My first interest would be to test whether anything information is being communicated nonverbally during these psychedelic instances of perceived telepathy, be it by body language or some other way.

If we do see a positive result (that is, information is reliably and accurately communicated), then I'd say do it again with the subjects in separate rooms and see what we get, but right now, I just want to examine the effect as it happens in the real world in a more controlled setting.

Blessings
~ND
 
A common factor seems to be how close each of the participants are to each other. If three people know the ins-and-outs of each other and are engage in a shared story/conversation the feeling of being in each others heads should increase.
I don't think a study, especially if the participants are strangers to each other, will give any significant results.
 
Sphorange said:
A common factor seems to be how close each of the participants are to each other. If three people know the ins-and-outs of each other and are engage in a shared story/conversation the feeling of being in each others heads should increase.
I don't think a study, especially if the participants are strangers to each other, will give any significant results.
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That can be controlled for - just make sure Person A and Person B are very close.

Blessings
~ND
 
So what is the hypothesis for close relatedness? How does that affect telepathy? Even if people are close, the study involves unbiased simple memory tasks. The relatedness shouldn't play a part in LSD induced telepathy.

I understand the feeling of telepathy JD initially posted about. But I don't think this study will be definitive, due to one reason: they were having a conversation. My thinking is that the neurological cascade that occurs within the minds of close people are very similar, since they are both engaged in a shared conversation. I guess what I'm saying is that telepathy isn't real, just a word to describe that feeling. Just my 2c.

Regardless, if you guys are serious about this study, I can also help out with the data. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 pairs of very close people who would be more than willing to partake. All we have to do is standardise everything; the memory tasks need to be the same, the dosage of LSD needs to be the same, and the experiment needs to be conducted at roughly the same time, i.e. when the subjects are peaking.
 
Interesting thread.

I feel the controlled experiment would tend to spoil the effect if the environment was not right. It would undermine the element of playfulness that Tattvamassi emphasized. And the thing about closeness brought a word to mind, 'telempathy' - i.e. it is an empathic non-verbal communication.

As far as a medium of communication goes, have we considered the degree to which the electrical field of the human body extends outwards in space? I would suggest that the types of feelings described in the OP could in part relate to bioelectrical fluctuations. I have seen with my own eyes how electrical fields can be detected at a distance of several feet from the human body.


I myself have experienced many instances of what I can only describe as telepathy, and of course it works best with people with whom one is close.

My particular LSD/psilocybin related telepathy experience was a bit different from the OP. For one thing it occured more as a bizarre coincidence in communicating with my mother, and was not instantly verifiable as my mother lives some 300 miles away.

So, a few of us were celebrating Albert Hoffman's 103rd birthday in the way that seemed most appropriate. My, how we laughed! Anyhow, at some point I was dancing around and in the midst of my altered state I started to mime and visualize the form of a giant teacup. At one point I could clearly see that I was dancing around inside a giant teacup until one of my friends said something and distracted me.

The curious thing was the following day I spoke to my mother on the telephone and enquired as to what she'd been doing recently - she replied "We had a giant teacup at the church the other day for a fair trade event."

I swear in all honesty this was the first I had heard of any such thing from anyone, there were no verbal cues in either direction and naturally I had not mentioned the previous night's activities (it would have been far too difficult to explain). Needless to say, I was exceedingly surprised...
 
So what is the hypothesis for close relatedness? How does that affect telepathy? Even if people are close, the study involves unbiased simple memory tasks. The relatedness shouldn't play a part in LSD induced telepathy.
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I am thinking it would be due to a evolution of conversation, such as a conversation flows better with a close friend as opposed to somebody you have just met. Reading body language is another example of this, the more you know the person the more you can understand their body language.

From a neuroscience perspective I wonder what the use of hallucinogens would play in allowing this form of communication to happen, presuming it is telepathy and not some greater understanding/tripping balls kinda thing...

Speaking to the pastor (he has two PhDs) where I go to church awhile back and got onto this topic. From a theological point of view, he believes in the resurrection of the body, and was stating that some christian scientists believe the human brain has the capacity for telepathy, and that this would be available after death. I will see if I can get a hold of any scientific articles that can confirm this.:)
 
Nathanial.Dread said:
Sphorange said:
A common factor seems to be how close each of the participants are to each other. If three people know the ins-and-outs of each other and are engage in a shared story/conversation the feeling of being in each others heads should increase.
I don't think a study, especially if the participants are strangers to each other, will give any significant results.
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That can be controlled for - just make sure Person A and Person B are very close.

Blessings
~ND
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That could even be the control itself, the real test being whether the phenomena is observed with person A and person X.
X being an aquaintance, or someone who has little to no connection with A.
 
JDSalinger said:
From a neuroscience perspective I wonder what the use of hallucinogens would play in allowing this form of communication to happen, presuming it is telepathy and not some greater understanding/tripping balls kinda thing...
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I'm not a full blown neuroscientist like ND, but I do have some background in it. As I understand it, hallucinogens form connections within the brain that do not normally form while sober. The chaotic nature of a hallucinogen trip makes it difficult to pinpoint parts of the brain that are interacting. Looking at the glowing areas in an fMRI is not enough to form a concrete conclusion about ... anything really. There are too many factors at play, and all we can rely on is a traditional reductionist model (which is severely lacking, mind you). For example, if a part of the brain lights up on LSD that is associated with visual acuity, one may safely say that the LSD is contributing to it. This can be verified by first-hand accounts of an acid trip. But what about more ethereal (for lack of a better term) effects of LSD, such as this "telepathy" phenomena? The absolute best way I can think of for testing this is chucking two people in an fMRI machine while tripping on acid, and instruct them to perform the memory tasks as ND described. However, the machine could interfere with the "telepathic" signals, if this is the mechanism of action. Same thing with a MEG (magnetoencephalography).

The best method to examine this "telepathy" phenomena is as ND described, a sample study. However, this wont explain the mechanism of action. All we can do is hypothesise given the current literature on the effects of hallucinogens on a neurological level.

I'm one of those people who think it is impossible to fully understand the brain. There are more neuronal connections in the brain than there are stars in our galaxy. All we can see are trends.
 
You are not crazy. Many people have experienced the same thing. But regardless it is a matter of pride for many even still, that we do not speak openly about it because no one has heretofore been able to effectively demonstrate the phenomena in 3 dimensional terms. Sorry, pal!
 
Thanks for your reply Bod. :)

thymamai said:
You are not crazy. Many people have experienced the same thing. But regardless it is a matter of pride for many even still, that we do not speak openly about it because no one has heretofore been able to effectively demonstrate the phenomena in 3 dimensional terms. Sorry, pal!
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I don't understand what pride has to do with it, I am curious about the matter and this has started a very interesting discussion. I only see a problem with not asking, how then would anyone learn?
 
Telepathy is something that happens in a space of consciousness that is without ego. Science will never go, but the way it is employed needs changing and until that point it serves like a second appendage for many people.
I don't like my language so much in this previous post and I definitely could have made myself a little quieter, so sorry for that, my bad. Ignore me.
 
I have never experienced telepathic phenomena with another human, though I have had similar experiences with hyperspace entities.

If telepathy is possible, I think the most likely mechanism of action is that the information transmission occurs through a medium outside of our current understanding of the physical universe. I believe that this medium is what we experience as 'hyperspace', a space consisting of only consciousness and information. This physical universe is embedded in hyperspace as a sort of 'simulation', though I'm not entirely sure of its purpose. We (consciousnesses from hyperspace) are living temporarily in this simulation. Normally our attention is focused on the here-and-now of physical reality. However, DMT and other psychedelics seem to disperse the attention of our consciousness (I think of it like a gaussian distribution with variable sigma/focus). When the focus of our conscious is expanded, it allows us to tap into that hyperspace medium through which consciousness and information propagates freely. Theoretically, this connection might allow two humans to communicate if they are both in a similar psychedelic state.

I'm not sure if science is going to be very helpful in this domain. It's possible that the universe might be constructed so that the outcomes of such experiments would always return false, so as to keep up the illusion that the physical universe is all there is. When I'm in hyperspace, I frequently have conversations with entities where I ask them questions about the nature of the universe, reality, and hyperspace. Usually, they immediately tell me the answer to anything I manage to ask (telepathically, of course, and at warp speed). However, whatever truths are revealed are almost always forgotten once I return to this reality, leaving me feeling like something huge just happened but I can't remember the specifics. I think there may be 'subroutines' that actively prevent transfer of information from hyperspace to this reality (lest something bad happen like knowing the future).

The other possibility is that there is only one consciousness, and it is all that exists. It consists of all information and experiences that could ever exist. It has created the universe as a way to experience itself through the dimensions of space and time. It has hidden from itself its true nature, lest the fun be ruined. It has split itself into many parts so that it can experience spacetime from a multitude of perspectives and have all kinds of adventures in the reality it has created for itself. In this model, telepathy is possible because you're really just talking to yourself, other people are part of the same consciousness as you, just active at another point in space. Psychedelics just break that illusion of separateness.
 
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