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The case against changa

Migrated topic.
shoe

shoe

Rising Star
OG Pioneer
In my eyes changa is a very self indulgent thing.

Have you forgotten what Terrence McKenna said when he said that DMT should only be used 2 or 3 times a year?
He was absoloutely serious when he said this. and I quote "These are not things to be toyed with" He was speaking about psychedelics in general when he said this. You should always maintain a professional "I am journeying to the centre of myself for X Y and Z reasons" attitude, for your own well being. Some of our livlier members may not agree with this but Antrocles and Acolon_3 will on this point, I am sure. Because we have been there, had our asses kicked and returned with the method to avoid those kind of situations.

I don't like changa, which is basically a way of marketing DMT as a trippy 'treat' for smoking all the time, and in my opinion, it seriously detracts from the really life-changing and spiritually cleansing power of freebased DMT smoked in the traditional way. DMT can take you all the way to enlightenment (temporally.) in a SNAP OF THE FINGERS.

I don't beleive its the proper way for DMT to be smoked. One should stick to freebasing it in a glass pipe, while fully MAOi'd, with white candles burning, after meditating for a good half an hour, with incense burning, in a dark room, with quiet music, with eyes closed.

OR, Outside on a warm and sunny day, in a glass pipe, on a comfortable blanket, in nature, after meditating.

Changa, particularly smoked for sub-breakthrough doses, in a joint, in my opinion, is bad news. If you're out of cannabis to make a joint or something, you need to either centre your being and be satisified, or go and get some dope. I find the idea that you can freely chug away on DMT to get high and enjoy, really, really bad news. Infact, I find it repulsive. If you can smoke Changa in a pipe and acheive breakthrough; go for it. But THAT is where DMT is at.

This molecule isn't just a drug, its a hallucinogenic opening in to the spirit world. Anyone who believes in entities will probably share this view. Certainly, Terrence McKenna believed that this was the first stage of the bardo (the afterlife) and I am sure you will agree that it is NOT a good thing to be poking a toe in the water without being fully prepared to go diving. You never know WHAT will follow you back, or what you will annoy. Im sure that even if you don't hold the 'spirit world' view, you can see the virtue in not surrendering to a self-indulgent, half-hearted method or working with a tool which is beyond comparison, in my eyes.

My concern is for the community here as a whole, and you as an individual. I don't think we are going in a good direction to endorse a 'smoke all you want, show it no respect, here have this and enjoy the taste and feel a bit woo-hoo for a while' attitude. DMT to me, is much much deeper than this. Its a doorway to another, strange realm, its a manifester of imagination, its an opening to the spirit world, its an occult tool of immense power, its an alien hyperquableoid molleculular saviour of humanity sent to evolve us to the next level of spiritual understanding and the 0th age of 2010 - but it is NOT a peice of candy to toke away when fat, lazy hippies fancy getting a bit beyond stoned but can't stomach 10 hours serious work on acid.

In the same way that if you take a trip without any real goal or intention, you will later find yourself scrabbling for meaning, or if you take a trip in the wrong place when you are allready in emotional turmoil, then you will cause yourself more harm than good - the same applies to changa. Frequently firing up those DMT receptors, but not enough to trigger the sort of right-angled change into hyperspace - Isn't good practice. I, myself, am guilty of doing this, I don't claim to be a saint - but it is far less common with a freebase pipe when you couldn't bring yourself to go all the way than with a herbal mix which is specifically designed to be used in that way.

I don't beleive that changa in a joint embodies the discipline that DMT, as a spiritual sacrament, really deserves. I don't believe that our changa-joint smokers are doing any credit to the DMT community as a whole and I don't believe that the nexus should really endorse such a practice, but it is out of my control. I don't think its good for your brain, I don't think its good for your lungs and I don't think its good for your spiritual well being.

Don't smoke changa.
 
First:
McKenna is not a holy guru!

Second:
Everybody how he pleases

Third:
Use of DMT is up to the user

If you are responsible and use it only if you feel it calling there shouldn't be a problem.
 
why not flowers and lovely things?? sing a song and calm down....your anger and extreme generalzations of people and they're intentions here IMO is more a reflection of something inside you, than it is based on the reality of the people here and they're intentions.

I hope you can find some peace.

While on the subject..Terrence also said that we needed a more core group of explorers who took this stuff MORE OFTEN..
 
ridiculous post mate!

I treat them both with the same respect as does the vast majority of people on the nexus. It takes you to the same place only in a much less hectic and more loving fassion.

you're always going to get people abusing both of them.
 
I dont get it,

if people feel that they would like an easier way of administration, then why is it a big deal that they infuse it to some herbs, especialy ones that have good synergy with DMT?

Shoe mate, why dont you make a small batch of Caapi leaf infused with DMT and see for yourself before making comments like "dont smoke changa":d
 
A sensitive topic. Do I dare express my opinion? :)

I have used changa a few times, but I don’t find it special. It doesn’t seem much different than sublingual harmalas followed by vaporized spice. And with vaporized spice there is much less material that one needs to inhale.

Changa is convenient, and if I didn’t have a GVG, it might be my preferred method of ingestion. Vaporizing using anything like “the machine” is just too unreliable – too easy to burn spice.

I do see where shoe is coming from. There are many accounts on this site of people who use low, repeated doses of changa in a single session. They speak of being in a sub-breakthrough or near-breakthrough experience for hours at a time, consuming hundreds of milligrams of DMT in the process. Whether this is a good or “proper” use of DMT is something I won’t comment on, but I personally find a deep breakthrough experience to be uniquely rewarding.
 
Wow, Shoe. That's a pretty rigid set of rules and regulations you've laid out for the troops to follow - especially as you say you've never actually tried the stuff yourself. Personally, I prefer my Nexus as a dogma free zone, but whatever feeds your moral superiority and gets you through the night.
 
There's a lot of this about recently.

Personally I say "whatever keeps folk off the streets" :)

If you really think that changa is just an abusers route to DMT, make 1g of 20x and smoke a cone every 15 minutes for at least 2 hours. If you don't come out of the experience with a well learned lesson, then I don't know what will help you.
 
wow fractal that's pretty damning coming from you sir...

My intention with this post was to look out for the nexus community as a whole; and I tried to highlight that in the o.p
I hope, that people will read this post and consider against the changa lifestyle.

Uncle Knucles: yeah, it is a strict set of rules; but if you are to get the best out of your dmt experiences, you should really try and dilligent with it! you get out what you put in! and if you treat it like your route to spiritual places, then it most defiantely will be.

gammagore: Because of the sanctity which DMT holds for me, personally. I feel that we need to have this discussion, because I can't see it anywhere on the nexus allready. To make people aware of the potential issues. Call it fearmongering if you will, but the thought of DMT fumes coming off a big stinking joint of passionflower makes me boke.

camakazi: I hadn't really considered your point to be the issue at all - since sub-breakthrough for hours at a time, as gibran2 mentioned, is my issue - and that is the nature of changa. Its just not suited for high-dosage, immersive experience.

I believe that in order for DMT to have maximum benefit, and to be of value to society, or atleast, to the nexus, but more importantly to wider society, then it must be a quick and submersive experience as the smoked-freebase route is by default. In - Experience - Out.

I would just like to add also, that although there are vast quantities of MHRB available, and other established sources, DMT should still be considered very precious.

Soulfood; I wont, I think its disgusting. I used to smoke DMT in joints when I abused it- as you said. It didn't do me any good, It wouldn't make me feel good, long term, and it wouldn't have any positive benefits either.

I definately will not be making any changa, sorry.
 
where on this site does it endorce the reckless use of changa in a smoke all you want all day, every day manner?
What is so wrong with a group of friends getting together to share such a loving and extaordenary experience?
Changa to me is far better at provinding a more meaningful experience too, I can somke a joint the same way I can smoke out a machine... Until I cant anymore, only when I drop back in the rest of it is still sitting there for me to pick up and depart once again with no fuss. It lasts longer and slows things down a bit, but appart from that its pretty much the same.

maybe your stuff wasn't strong enough and made you only vibrate and feel high.. instead of shaking every atom in your body into blissful oblivion.
 
camakazi: then you are not smoking enough in your freebase pipe to make it worthwhile. This is what im preaching, intensive and sparse use of DMT.

It takes you to divine places; I mean physically to divine places; I wander the finely patterned walls of a giant stone mauseleum, and then three weeks later I see on television arabs praying at mecca and notice the exact same pattern on their walls. Im not kidding when I say this stuff *takes you* to divine places. I don't mean hyperspace places that are divine, I mean PHYSICAL divine places - As Antrocles's recent post highlights!

Somone from the nexus sent me a very enlightening paper a while back. I would post it up but its on my laptop. Anyway, it was by one of the first people to really smoke DMT, back in the 70's. the emphasis was on having an incredible trip. Thats what I want for you guys, to have incredible, enlightening, amazing, epic trips which will transform you and transform your preceptions and better your life.

They fully endorsed really going to town, building a lodge out in the secluded woods, with no electronics nearby, only the sound of babbling brooks, dressed in loose garments as if for a celebration, candles everywhere, incense, meditation, group chanting. I would do this if I could. I really would. Anyway, Then he said: "imagine what kind of trips you'd have in THIS kind of environment!!"

THAT is what DMT is really all about!!!! Not some, half-assed plastic high and a bit of visual enhancement, man. Im talking about full-on contact with highly evolved beings who will help you out, turn you to a being of light for fifteen minuites, bestow beautiful gifts on you, teach you things about yourself, show you through music and vision and dance and gentle messages, the answer to every question you've ever had. I'm 100% serious!

Im glad I got this notice up in the changa section, my work is done for now.
 
shoe said:
Its just not suited for high-dosage, immersive experience.
Click to expand...

Completely false. If you had actually tried something before commenting on it, or having any first-hand experience of someone else with it, you would know this.
 
Excuse me my good man, who are anyone to dictate how we should consume any substance? Of course reckless use is something to avoid, but that goes for absolutely anything. Changa is just another delivery mechanism for a mixture of herbal compounds. Safe and responsible use is something we all should promote and work for, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what form the entheogen is in.

Actually I find changa to be much more true to the original and historic usage, essentially it is smokeable Ayahuasca. But whatever floats your boat, what kind of delivery mechanism you choose is your own decision and your own only.
 
shoe said:
Soulfood; I wont, I think its disgusting. I used to smoke DMT in joints when I abused it- as you said. It didn't do me any good, It wouldn't make me feel good, long term, and it wouldn't have any positive benefits either.

I definately will not be making any changa, sorry.
Click to expand...

Don't apologise.

What you have to realise is that many ayahuasca users consider freebase DMT to be an abomination. Changa when made correctly can bridge the gap between the two.

The truth is, breakthrough freebase DMT contributed very little to my improvement as a character. Ayahuasca and changa have probably contributed to that more than any other substances I use, so in my opinion you're not helping anyone.
 
shoe said:
camakazi: then you are not smoking enough in your freebase pipe to make it worthwhile. This is what im preaching, intensive and sparse use of DMT.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but you're wrong there my friend. I've taken it to the point where I dont take anything back from he journey at all.. a DMT wash out if you will. Usually 50mg is full on breakthrough for me, 60mg is pushing it in terms of not remembering.. although I have taken it higher on a good few occasions.
 
shoe said:
wow fractal that's pretty damning coming from you sir...

My intention with this post was to look out for the nexus community as a whole; and I tried to highlight that in the o.p
I hope, that people will read this post and consider against the changa lifestyle.

Uncle Knucles: yeah, it is a strict set of rules; but if you are to get the best out of your dmt experiences, you should really try and dilligent with it! you get out what you put in! and if you treat it like your route to spiritual places, then it most defiantely will be.

gammagore: Because of the sanctity which DMT holds for me, personally. I feel that we need to have this discussion, because I can't see it anywhere on the nexus allready. To make people aware of the potential issues. Call it fearmongering if you will, but the thought of DMT fumes coming off a big stinking joint of passionflower makes me boke.

camakazi: I hadn't really considered your point to be the issue at all - since sub-breakthrough for hours at a time, as gibran2 mentioned, is my issue - and that is the nature of changa. Its just not suited for high-dosage, immersive experience.

I believe that in order for DMT to have maximum benefit, and to be of value to society, or atleast, to the nexus, but more importantly to wider society, then it must be a quick and submersive experience as the smoked-freebase route is by default. In - Experience - Out.

I would just like to add also, that although there are vast quantities of MHRB available, and other established sources, DMT should still be considered very precious.

Soulfood; I wont, I think its disgusting. I used to smoke DMT in joints when I abused it- as you said. It didn't do me any good, It wouldn't make me feel good, long term, and it wouldn't have any positive benefits either.

I definately will not be making any changa, sorry.
Click to expand...

Well shoe, to be honest..what I got from your post is that you lump us all together as "fat, lazy hippies fancy getting a bit beyond stoned but can't stomach 10 hours serious work on acid" who "chug away on DMT to get high and enjoy" who you find to be "really, really bad news. Infact, I find it repulsive"..and you do this in some seemingly angry or frantic attempt to prove your point..not too enlightened. If you really took your own advice and were getting so much out of DMT then why all the anger masked as your concerns for us?

Do you think that the way you chooe to approach and adress others doesnt really weigh into how it is that you will be recieved?

This kind of negativity doesnt get people anywhere..you just put out vibes that will piss other people off and in return you will get back exactly what you gave to them.

Do you actaully think that we're all just smoking tiny little doses of changa all day long since and dont break through since we smoke changa? Have you ever smoked changa? if you have 1 gram of 10x caapi leaf, loaded with pure harmine and 1g of DMT, I can assure you it's not hard to break through.

I doubt most people here smoke changa joints..why would I smoke a joint when 100mg of my changa is going to contain 50mg of DMT plus extracted harmalas?..

Somehow I knew the title of this thread was taken from Nick Sand..who was vaping back in the 60's might I add, not just the 70's.
 
I smoked changa in a joint once to see how it worked. Not very well I'll have you know. I put it out half way and saved the rest for another time. The smell of burning DMT makes me very sad.
 
Fractal: You seem to be under the impression that there is something 'unenlightened' about anger. White light is the inclusion of *everything* and its not necessary to become enlightened to understand that.

Thanks for the reality check everyone, Be positive, Do not highlight any issues, Test something out before you try and voice an opinion against it or people who don't want to confront the real issue will use that as their only valid defense. "Changa is to be smoked in a pipe" ... etc etc. Well, If you're to smoke enhanced leaf in a pipe, you should really be smoking pure freebase in a pipe with propper technique.

I AM talking about changa joints - people who smoke cones full of enhanced leaf recreationally and sub-breakthrough.

IF you smoke changa in a pipe, and it causes breakthroughs for you, then I think that's perfectly fine.

lol, okay: let me say this for the third time - What im against: smoking recreational DMT with a sub-breakthrough intention. That's bad news. Who disagrees with position?

Thanks everyone!
Be well!
 
Yeah there is something unenlightened about it when you choose to let it all out like that giving it to people you dont even know that dont deserve it. Youjust create more darkness, but hey, if thats what you want..

There are much much more effective ways of getting you message across..

Just me thinking of the good of the community.

Dont expect me to respond to this thread again. Ive said all I can possibly say here..anythng esle is just getting into a pointless area of unconstructive discussion.
 
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