The Coleus Enigma

[phyllode]

Here is a Thread from the Shaman Australis corroboree forums on Coleus blumei aka Solenostemon scutteloides. Coleus blumei
It is now Plectranthus scutteloides (Lamiaceae), and reported by Schultze and Hoffmann to be a Salvia divinorum alternative.:

Wasson also mentioned the curious datum that the Mazatecs regarded Salvia divinorum to be the most important member of a ‘family’ (all, botanically speaking, indeed members of the same family, Labiatae), being la hembra, ‘the female,’ whereas el macho or ‘the male’ was Coleus pumilus Blanco, and el nene, ‘the child,’ or el ajihado, ‘the godson,’ was Coleus blumei Bentham. This is more than strange, given the fact that both species of Coleus are post-conquest introductions to Mexico (Schultes 1967), and their juxtaposition with Salvia divinorum in the minds of the Mazatecs might be seen as reinforcing the suspicion that their use of the ‘leaves of Mary Shepherdess’ too is a post-conquest innovation. Unfortunately, we have no firm evidence for the psychoactivity of either species of Coleus.

It's one of the best threads on that site, and a classic example of phyllode causing a big argument
And went right off topic at points. It's also got some good bioassay reports, along with the skeptics.
Amongst my posts in that thread:

It seems more likely to me that it would be strain variable, or technique, rather than affecting some people and not others. Almost all plants not selected over time in traditional usage, and with wide geographical range, have wide chemical variability. 'Coleus' has been asserted (in conjuction with p. harmala) as an entheogen by one correspondent in Entheogen Review. The person who had 40-50 leaves said that it worked the same in two other people. Scultze and Hoffman reported that the Mazatec called it 'the child' and said it was related to Ska Maria Patoria. This is good enough evidence for me of 1) effects and 2) probable strain variability. Different strains even smell different!

It has been mostly ignored until the study in Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 2001 Jul;49(7):927-9.Diastereomeric diterpenes from Coleus blumei.Ragas CY, Templora VF, Rideout JA.
These are in a similar class as Salvia diterpenes.They have been tested only for antimicrobial activity. No scientfic tests in humans or animals of psychoactivity have been conducted [AFAIK]. My point regarding it's unusually wide wild distribution, is that it seems to have moved around a lot in preconquest times, and that it's taxonomic status is complex and not uniformly agreed upon.

After sourcing 40 leaves from a friend's strain, and boiling this down like an ayahuasca tea, that it was "entheogenic". To me, somewhere between milder Salvia D and real absynth. Bit fuzzy in a good way for a few hours. I think different colours may have differences. Anyone else tried a type of this one?

 

[nen888]

..nice array of colours..yeah, i think there could be something in this..and i chuckled hard at that thread..
when i get more time i'll have a dig around..
.

 

[jamie]

ive grown many different coleus plants trying to find an active strain..never had any luck.

 

[flowersniffer]

hee hee hee, I have absolutly loads of this growing in my garden, exactly like the first picture that phyllode posted. It's really easy to clone, just break a bit off the top and stick it in the ground.

The jury seems to be out though on its psychoactivity... if I ever give it a try, I'll report back

 

[nexalizer]

I have no experience with it but am aware of the plant. Looking forward to grow it next year. If nothing else, it'll make for a very pretty sight:d

 

[Crazyhorse]

If nothing else, it'll make for a very pretty sight:d

For sure, I'd grow that green and purple one on the left whether it's active or not. :d

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

so what are the possible molecules that could be responsible for psychoactivity?

or do we really have no clue.

 

[The Meddling Monk]

Phyllode (good on you) wrote in that thread she linked:

It has been mostly ignored until the study in Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 2001 Jul;49(7):927-9.Diastereomeric diterpenes from Coleus blumei.Ragas CY, Templora VF, Rideout JA.
These are in a similar class as Salvia diterpenes.They have been tested only for anti-microbial activity. No scientfic tests in humans or animals of psychoactivity have been conducted to my knowledge. My point regarding it's unusually wide wild distribution, is that it seems to have moved around a lot in pre-conquest times, and that it's taxonomic status is complex and not uniformly agreed upon.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Diastereomeric diterpenes from Coleus blumei.
These are in a similar class as Salvia diterpenes.

so would some kind of analysis be possible from an extract?
just soak some coleus in 99% acetone and evap, and its ready for testing?

or is that too easy (it seems to be but i have less than a cursory knowledge of both chemistry and salvia)

 

[The Meddling Monk]

just soak some coleus in 99% acetone and evap, and its ready for testing?

or is that too easy (it seems to be but i have less than a cursory knowledge of both chemistry and salvia)

I dug up the paper. May be that easy. The abstract of the paper says:

The chloroform extract of the air-dried leaves of Coleus blumei afforded a mixture of diastereomers of a new abietane type diterpene whose structures were elucidated by extensive one and two dimensional (1D, 2D) NMR and mass spectrometry. Acetylation of the mixture afforded a single compound. Antimicrobial tests on the diter- pene indicate that it is active against Bacillus subtilis, Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Candida albicans.

Full Paper attached.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

awesome.
thank you so much MM, i will make sure to report back if i ever get my hands on some blumei (found out my coleus was the wrong species, but they are a fairly common genus so i am sure one will come my way)

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

I love growing them but I've never attempted to dose it. I'd love to hear how you take it.

 

[Enoon]

Here is more from this webpage:

Psychoactive: The psychoactivity of the leaves is highly controversial. (1) There are reports of psychoactive effects from the smoking of leaves. Leaves are dried and soaked alone or mixed with other herbs, and the psychoactive effect achieved with as few as 3 leaves. (2) The Mazatecs consider coleus as a member of the "family" of psychoactive herbs, using coleus as a substitute for Salvia divinorum. (3) About 30% of subjects who smoked dried Mexican Coleus blumei leaves reported effects similar to smoking a small dosage of Salvia divinorum. (4) Some experience no effects with large amounts of leaves.

And this is from here:

Constituents
Coleus was recently found to contain salvinorinlike
substances (cf. salvinorin A) of an as yet
undetermined chemical structure (cf. diterpenes).
It is possible that these diterpenes are chemically
modified by drying or burning and transformed
into efficacious substances. However, additional
chemical and pharmaceutical research is needed to
clarify this situation.
Rosmarinic acid has been biosynthesized in
cell cultures of Coleus blumei (Hausler et al. 1992;
Meinhard et al. 1992, 1993).
A diterpene (forskolin = coleonol) that is
potently bioactive has been found in the related
species Coleus forskohlii (Poir.) Briq. [syn. Coleus
barbatus Benth.] (Valdes et al. 1987). It is possible
that Coleus blumei may also contain forskolin or a
similar substance. However, an initial investigation
of Indian plants was unable to detect any forskolin
(Valdes et al. 1987,479).

Forskolin activates the enzyme adenylate
cyclase, an intracellular neurotransmitter that can
bind to various receptors. This means that
forskolin is able to exert strong indirect effects
upon neurotransmission (D. McKenna 1995,
103*). Whether this can result in psychoactive
effects is unknown.

This second source also states that lots of people including the author have tried it with 0 success, so it's quite controversial. I wonder if it has to do with the strain/plant or if it is something else - dependant on the person?

I'd like to know how one could isolate / identify the substance in the leaves. Perhaps an extraction like one would do for salvia and see what it yields would be a first step?

 

[Dreamwalker]

I remember watching an old video of Terrance McKenna where he talks about this plant.

About 1 minute 20 seconds into the video he brings it up.

 

[jamie]

I would just like to add that as far as I know, that wikipedia article is not entirely correct in saying there is a history of mazatec use of coleus for this sort of entheogenic purpses..if there is can someone provide a source? From what I understand it was discovered growing in a mazatec curranderos garden and the guy told the source that his daughter got it from the market becasue it was pretty or something. I have never heard the whole currandero use of the plant supported by much else beyond that.

I have grown many different coleus strains..many that looked identical to the ones shown in this thread, including the flower appearance..I grew large ammounts of the stuff for a number of years in my garden and tried to get it to work and the most I ever got was a bit of a buzz maybe that could have been placebo.

I will try again this year I guess..though I am naturally skeptical, it is possible that there is a long mazatec history of using this plant for visionary purposes.

 

[Hieronymous]

From what I understand it was discovered growing in a mazatec curranderos garden and the guy told the source that his daughter got it from the market becasue it was pretty or something. I have never heard the whole currandero use of the plant supported by much else beyond that.

I've read that too, I think it was from one of Wassons' original journeys seeking the legendary Salvia, don't quote me on that though it's been a long time time since I've read anything about his adventures.


I've tried a few different incarnations of coleus too and none of them did much for me.

 

[Dreamwalker]

So what was the ROA that anyone who has tried this have done? Since this seems to supposedly have a connection with the mazatecs I would imagine quidding would be the way to go?

how about some Nexians running their own tests to isolate the actives (if there are any) and experimenting further?

Just a thought.

 

[jamie]

I remember watching an old video of Terrance McKenna where he talks about this plant.

About 1 minute 20 seconds into the video he brings it up.

Yes and he is so vague about it that I begin to wonder if he even knew what he was saying. I love the guy but that always puzzled me.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Yeah, he is very vague about it. Just mentions it quickly without any facts or history of use to back it up.

More of of a reason to get the straight facts about it in my opinion. That video was old and we have much better means to back up these claims now.

It would be interesting to follow up on it.

 

[Ilex]

I have played with Coleus quite a bit. There are two species commonly available - Coleus blumei, and Coleus pumilas. Of the two, I find Coleus pumilas to be the stronger of the two. The effects for me are subtle, but real - comparable to a threshold dose of Salvia, or the very initial "come-up" of a mushroom trip, a mild dreamy/dissociative feeling with some light visual patternings. Nothing that strong, and lasting two hours at best.

Several different methods of consumption have been tried. Often we dried the leaves out and smoked them. At our most ridiculous, we filled a whole pizza tray with fresh leaves and dried them out, rolled it all up into a quarter oz "joint" and smoked it between three people. A very dreamy, spaced out summer night as I recall.

I have mostly worked with the plant by rolling up pairs of the leaves and chewing them - usually several pairs, until I feel the effects. It's subtle on its own, but I have had a couple interesting experiences with it in combination with psychedelics. One time while on MDMA + LSD I chewed a handful of leaves, and shortly thereafter started "vibrating" in and out of this reality... kind of a shuttering back and forth, dissociative effect, similar to Salvia in a way. A bizarre experience that has never been repeated, I feel the Coleus was a catalyst for sure.

Once I soaked a bunch of Coleus leaves into vodka, and had a shot of that. This was actually a strong experience, I kept phasing in and out of reality and was honestly past the point of walking, despite only consuming 1 oz of alcohol. Some synergy going on here?

I have tried making tea with about 40 leaves one time, but didn't get much effect from it.

One other thing - sometimes when chewing leaves before bed, I noticed an enhancement of dreaming. This plant could potentially be an oneirogen.