The fundamental question of HYPERSPACE :)

[GARMONIUM]

There is a fundamental question to be answered by exploring Hyperspace...

Are the visions we encounter a product of our own mind or an alternative reality that we tune into ?
Are the conscious entities that we come in contact with reflections of our inner self or true independent intelligent otherworldly beings?

If the first is true and all of these experiences are a product of our mind, then our mind is capable of generating complete other worlds full of conscious beings that sometimes feel completely alien to us and have no reference to things we come across in our daily lives on this planet. Seems to be quite a far out and impractical feature for a brain to possess, its not like you would ever use it in your everyday life or need in order to function or survie. A glitch in the evolution of the mammalian brain ?

We are happy to think that dreams are a product of our minds as they are usually fileld with references to our everyday world but the hypersapce visions are in most cases very different to dreams. If we had dreams like visions we would not be doing enthogens. So the first answer is possible but highly unlikely.

If the latter is true and we get to tune in to an alternate reality filled with conscious beings.... well then that completely and utterly breaks every law we have in science today and totally undermins our understanding of reality itself !!! The only way to prove this is to have meaningful contact with Hyperspace beings and bring back verifiable information about our own reality that we did not know about before. ( like the lottery numbers... just joking )

To find an answer to this riddle I feel should be part of the vision quest objective of all serious psychonauts.

It is probably not a task for a loan voyager but for a whole community of travellers that can work together to piece this puzzle into a coherent picture.

It is like the parable of the elephant walking into the town of the blind people, and only after the wise men of the town each touched the elephant from a different side and communicated about their discoveries were they able to piece together an overall picture of the phenomenon that they had encountered even though each part of the elephant felt different to the touch.

So I believe a community such as this one has a very good chance to answer some fundamental questions about hyperspace if there is a unified quest to achieve a form of "subjective" objectivity.

I have been voyaging out for the last 10 years with some very interesting results. I hope to find some like minded travellers who might help me answer my questions or I might help them answer theirs and together we might be able to answer a few big onezzz !

1LOVE

8)

 

[universecannon]

Are the visions we encounter a product of our own mind or an alternative reality that we tune into ?

It seems far more likely to me that its an unimaginably complex mix of both. I mean, afterall, the experiential 'reality' we experience daily is both a part of the 'outter world' and a product of our minds....Moreso a product of our minds if you ask me, since what physics is telling us is is that the outer world doesn't look diddily squat like how we all see and experience it

But even if only the former is true, and we're not contacting other dimensions/aliens/entities/intelligences/deeper layers/whatever, the implications of the experience as it is are still extremely profound

Are the conscious entities that we come in contact with reflections of our inner self or true independent intelligent otherworldly beings?

Again, i have to ask, what makes you think it would have to be either or? Hyperspace is a mystery inside a condundrum wrapped in a riddle dripping with paradox

I've encountered entities that certainly seem like reflections of my own mind in some bizzarro hyperdimensional way, and others that seem utterly alien and have nothing to do with 'me', and still others that are a mix of both, and everything in between. Its not so simple as either/or in my opinion

 

[GARMONIUM]

universecannon Thank you for your reply

If its either or both it still shatters conventional understanding of reality and a new model needs to be constructed taking this into account.

I dont think it needs to be either or by no means. But if it is a mix of both then you and I could be a reflection of a mind of some Hyperspacial being, might even be one of the ones we have encountered.

I am a Pantheist believing that all things are one, and God is just another name for the union and oneness of everything. So of course there is no separation at root level of consciousness from me to the beings I encounter in Hyperspace but at our human level of perception there is definitely a separation between them and me

I guess the other question is our brain the origin of our own consciousness or are we using it like an antena to receive a personalised broadcast of what we call our own reality.

Hyperspace is a mystery inside a condundrum wrapped in a riddle dripping with paradox

LOVE IT :thumb_up:

 

[○]

I guess the other question is our brain the origin of our own consciousness or are we using it like an antena to receive a personalised broadcast of what we call our own reality.

In my personal opinion (based on my explorations) consciousness is the ground of all being, unmanifest and manifest. Consciounsess is the big three letter word. Consciousness permeates every infinitesimal point in the universe. We are indeed focal points of this great awareness yet we are also bathed in this awareness.

 

[○]

Are the visions we encounter a product of our own mind or an alternative reality that we tune into ?

Well as uni said, the 'out there world' of our perception isn't actually the 'world out there'. We have no idea how the universe really looks beyond the scope of our eye balls/brain. Evidently it's an influx of signals/information/vibrations, but who knows? I believe that the altered states that we encounter, especially on dmt, are always there. They're a part of us and everything else perceiveable, and with just the right tweaking chemically via our long standing relatives, we experience the reality that is inside, outside and all around.

Are the conscious entities that we come in contact with reflections of our inner self or true independent intelligent otherworldly beings?

Both

 

[gibran2]

Whatever we believe to be true concerning the unknown has a very high probability of being false. Read this:

The Improbability of Hyperspace

I believe human understanding of “the way things work” is so limited, and our cognitive capacity is so small, that “things as they actually are” cannot be comprehended.

To even ask the sorts of questions we ask (and I say “we”, because we wouldn’t be here if we weren’t all interested in the questions and their answers) requires us to make many assumptions. Some or all of us assume that one or more of the following actually exists:

-- Reality
-- Time
-- Space
-- Self
-- Consciousness
-- Others
-- Hyperspace

The more I think about these things, the more I accept the profound mystery of it all.


Here’s my answer to the original question:

My hyperspace experiences are often as “real” as my everyday subjective experiences. Whether either or both or neither is “real” is unknown and perhaps unknowable.

 

[GARMONIUM]

Tattvamasi & gibran2

Thank you for your replies

I enjoyed reading, The Improbability of Hyperspace :roll: some serious brain gymnastics going on there :thumb_up:

We as conscious beings will always be on a quest for the "truth" no matter how unrealistic this task is. We will also try and package any of our so called knowledge into models or systems that can then be passed on to future generations to be expanded upon and evolved further.

In our modern society exists a scientific ( commonly accepted ) model of reality and consciousness, which of course is very far from the actual reality but never the less a model that gets studied and passed on by the society as a supposed thread of sanity.

The fact that the Hyperspace exists at all as a concept, state or place is enough reason to incorporate it into the current "accepted" model of reality. Mankind has been visiting it since the dawn of time. People that have only hypothetical knowledge of this concept like some scientists or doctors, which have never been there are not the ones that are able to put hyperspace "on the map" it is people like us that have spent their lives experimenting with "risky" hyperspace exploration first hand, can try and give it some justice in attempting to consolidate the information gathered into something coherent. Knowing that we will obviously be far from the "truth" but at least try and collectively inch forward hopefully in the right direction

 

[almonds]

What if hyperspace is your own brain?

I mean, what if while you are in hyperspace, you are just becoming conscious of your own internal mind.
Anyone can do this to some degree at any time, just thinking about the fact that you are thinking is a form of this... but what if hyperspace is actually being able to see the inside workings of your neural network?

What if the entities are alive inside your brain? not as physical creatures, but as energy and information. If you take away your brain, maybe their world disappears, but this wouldn't mean that they aren't real.
For example, you, as far as we know, are created by the complex network created by hundreds of billions of neurons and even more glial cells, and the complex interactions with each other and numerous neurotransmitters. I mean, you as a personality and a consciousness exist because of this network, but who's to say that you are the only one???
What if other consciousnesses live inside that network as well? I'm virtually certain that I have at least two consciousnesses inside my own neural network. Maybe left vs right brain, devil vs angel, the guy who says "let's not drink tonight" and the one who says "Shots!! everyone!" I know for certain that I do not have 100% will power and free will. If I did, then I would always do what "I" wanted, but I can tell you for sure, that there are tons of times when I don't do what I intend to do. Or other times when my own intentions are conflicting. I'm proposing that maybe there are multiple consciousnesses residing in my one skull! And possibly, the spice is allowing me to perceive some of those other consciousnesses.

Just a thought! I love the idea that there could be independent conscious entities sharing one neural network. Maybe some of them have jobs? That's why they can be seen working in various visions. Maybe some of them are monitoring health, which is why people have had visions of them showing them an injury they didn't know about.
Maybe they don't all agree! Maybe some of them are mischievous and want us to get into trouble, maybe others are loving and healing. Maybe they are aware of us (the primary consciousness that you relate to in this body) and we are less aware of them. Maybe they laugh when we come for a visit, because we are so bewildered, but it's their every day life. Maybe DMT doesn't affect them!

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

OP, you might find this interesting

 

[GARMONIUM]

almonds, thank you giving your opinion on this topic.

There are near death experience reports, when the brain and the body is in a clinical death state people report being outside their body and seeing and remembering things that are happening or traveling into light tunnel and coming back.

So in theory their brain is not active during those states but they are still having a conscious experience. Maybe the consciousness is something separate from the brain physiology, like the internet and the computer are separate

If you translate this idea to the Hyperspace situation then maybe we just tune into a different "internet" during that experience.

Parshvik Chintan

Thank you for that link, the main interesting thing for me from that guy's talk was the fact that he considers the DMT state unlike other psychedelics similar to the common sober state by being a learned neural mode. The theory is interesting but the guy dose not give it much ground to be plausible. For what purpose would this ability exist in man 50 000 years ago ? What caused it to evolve, and then disappear. I also believe all psychedelics in their peak are able to deliver a very real alternative reality state which would not be far off DMT and could be passed of as a learned neural mode

When it comes to people talking about crash test dummy aliens and elves at peek states, I personally never get such "pop culture" beings in my experiences so to claim that everyone gets them at a high enough dose is a bit wild. I personally think Terrance McKenna (RIP) with his machine elf stories is highly subjective and not very helpful, he has influenced a lot of people by imposing his visions onto them, and now a load of people are conditioned to expect them, limiting their own inner experience.

 

[Global]

I think the answer to the "riddle" is simple. It is both reality and not reality. This applies to all states of being.

[edit]: the trap is to believe that it can't be more than one thing at a time.

 

[○]

When it comes to people talking about crash test dummy aliens and elves at peek states, I personally never get such "pop culture" beings in my experiences so to claim that everyone gets them at a high enough dose is a bit wild. I personally think Terrance McKenna (RIP) with his machine elf stories is highly subjective and not very helpful, he has influenced a lot of people by imposing his visions onto them, and now a load of people are conditioned to expect them, limiting their own inner experience.

I resonate with this strongly. Most of the time for me they're akin to autonomous 'somethings' that come out of the woodwork of hyperspace. Very distinct, yes, but elves or mantis entities..not so much. My strongest/deepest experience to date contained absolutely no entities or seperate forms. It can be read here Welcome to the DMT-Nexus .

It's almost like hyperspace, at times, will extend itself out to you in the form of ever-flowing 'arms' and touch me, like hyperspace can assume the shape of an entity or assume the form of arms to 'interact' directly with us in that space. Certainly interesting..

 

[Global]

Having said that, here are a couple of my experiences that I feel lend a certain element of reality to hyperspace.

Symbolic Egyptian Solstice Experience

Eerie Integration

I also quote myself from some other thread that is not mine

When I take DMT, there is a large energy component to it (it seems to be a component on which the entire experience is derived), and through some practice and meditation, I've learned to harness the energy to some extent while sober. It's a very physical feeling thing. It has a force to it that moves my limbs autonomously upon contact. Through much experimentation I've found that this energy is directly connected with attention as well as breath. One day while I was studying one of my crystals, holding it up close to my face so I could examine it, my arm began oscillating forcefully back and forth as if the crystal had a magnetic attraction/repulsion with my face.

So of course I come to theorize that perhaps it was interacting with my third eye chakra, so I decide to hold up the crystal to other parts of my body to see if I can elicit the same energetic effect. It doesn't really do anything when I place it just anywhere, but when I put it in front of my throat, I got a very large effect, as well as with the solar plexus and sacral chakra. The only chakra it really didn't seem to want to work with was my heart chakra. When I placed it in front of that chakra, nothing happened. There was absolutely no energetic activity like it was a dead spot. I tried different crystals...nothing. As I sat and thought about chakras and what I had heard about them, I recalled that the chakras were all associated with different glands and organs.

So "there it was" I thought. If the chakras are aligned with the different organs and not perfectly straight down the spine, then the heart chakra would be offset to the left. So I took my crystal, held it in the center of my chest: nothing happens. I hold it on the right side of my chest: nothing happens. I hold it on the left side of my chest: eureka! It was like turning on a battery. My arm began forcefully oscillating back and forth. It is because of this experience that I believe in chakras. I feel I can say that it goes beyond subconscious auto-suggestion or something of the sort because according to my prior beliefs, as far as I knew all the chakras went straight down the spine (as it is so often depicted) and so by that logic, my arm would have been oscillating where I had initially believed my heart chakra to be, but that just wasn't the case at all. I think several days had elapsed even before I made the connection with the offset organ.

I believe I have some other personal evidence that is currently slipping my mind, but if I think of it, I'll post it here. I've been thinking lately of compiling the phenomenology and observations of my experience with hyperspace where I hope to be able to sort through my ideas a little more methodically.

 

[MillennialX]

Reality is living information, our mind is a nexus where the macro and micro meet. Vast kosmic intelligences are deciphered and made "coherent" to us in the form of these "hallucinations". Where does your mind begin and the alien end?? Well obviously that's an impossible question

 

[Global]

The theory is interesting but the guy dose not give it much ground to be plausible. For what purpose would this ability exist in man 50 000 years ago ?

It may be best to stop thinking of this experience in regards to how it fits in with a Darwinian theory of evolution. I'm not saying there's no evolution, and I'm not saying that we didn't "evolve" to be able to have that experience in some way, but what I am saying is that it doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with survival or being the "most fit".