• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

The irrational feeling of playing a key role

Migrated topic.
Just some reflection on it all...

At a party once, over-heard a conversation between 2 trippers... One said "You aren't special because you took a drug. Anyone with $10 can take a drug and feel like a god"

A family member who is a psychiatrist likes to say "Most all important and influential people people in the world can smell an idea-man from a mile away, and steer clear from them. Having ideas doesn't make you special, valuable, or important... everyone has ideas. It's your ability to enact them into something tangible, consistently over a long period of time, that offers the opportunity to succeed or bring about change"

IMO that's part of the truth and gift of psychedelics. That yes they can show you how the world should be better, how if motivated enough you COULD make that happen if you played your cards right. But also, anyone with $10 can get the same insight. Having the vision, knowledge, and wisdom of the psychedelic doesn't make you the messiah.

It's a gift and insight that's there for anyone willing to ingest these things... but where the rubber meets the road, is in what ways are you qualified or even capable of doing anything about it? Many can 'see' the way, few can follow it.

Can be a homeless dude, unable to hold a job, barely surviving, but feel like Jesus because you took some acid and 'figured it all out' and feel compelled to 'change the world if people only listened to me and the ideas I had while tripping'

Developing a solid base in foundational life skills becomes critical. Having goals for ones self, short, midterm and long term goals, working towards them every day. Having some sort of consistent discipline over a long period of time, be it health, diet, fitness, meditation/yoga practice, working long hours with proper focus to accomplish something.

If you actually develop the skills to propagate change, then MAYBE you can become capable of fulfilling some of the visions you have on psychedelics.

Until then, IMO, its a very slippery slope to think one is somehow special, significant, or more empowered then others to be a leader/changer... simply because they took a drug.
 
Hey CosmicLion. Is it not so that the path of discipline you describe just acts as a reinforcement to the ego that desires to implement it's own flavour of change?

'Look how well I'm living. My ideas are more relevant.'

Does not matter if it's a homeless junkie or a yoga master. No one is special or more relevant than another. It's just easier to convince people to listen to you if you're awesome.
 
fink said:
Hey CosmicLion. Is it not so that the path of discipline you describe just acts as a reinforcement to the ego that desires to implement change?

'Look how well I'm living. My ideas are more relevant.'

Does not matter if it's a homeless junkie or a yoga master. No one is special or more relevant than another. It's just easier to convince people to listen to you if you're awesome.
Click to expand...

Sure, that can be a huge aspect of it for some individuals, if their goal is to convince others that their ideas are 'valid'...

But that's not what I meant by any of that. I wasn't talking about ways to get clout to be believed. I was implying that one must actually have the fundamental skillsets of putting ideas into action, to, well, put ideas into action. It's not about what others think of what you do, it's about the person themselves actually being able to do more then have an idea.
 
Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. The idea of swimming across the ocean means nothing without the basic training in not drowning?
 
Something I've said for a while: Everyone wants to be special. And in a way, by being the only one of "them" there is, everyone is special. But being special is a novel thing, so if everyone is special, being special is no longer novel, and so, no one is special.

One love
 
Voidmatrix said:
Tomtegubbe said:
Related to this is the question that what is the proper ratio of striving vs accepting. When is the right time to act and how much effort you should put into your deeds compared to waiting for the circumstances to be right. In Daoism there is the concept of Wu wei the effortless action. I'm fascinated by the idea but have very superficial understanding of it.

The idea that I could be more and should be more can be debilitating. Still having dreams can lead to change.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Click to expand...

I think that finding such a ratio is a moving target. If change is constant, than such a ratio will change, predicated on other changes. I think it's about finding a manner of deep fundamental awareness that allows us to be aware of when to strive and when to accept.
…
One love
Click to expand...

If we see through the deep rooted belief and feeling that we are material individuals - sharing the fate of a body - and see that in our experience (the only reasonable test of reality IMO) that:

0) you are that which is aware of your experience
1) all bodies and the world appear in awareness (awareness doesn’t appear in a world of matter)
2) that the knowing of all things is all there is to those “things” (outside matter is never found - only experiences of knowing that we label matter)
3) the essential nature of awareness is our nature, our self, and it is shared with all beings and all things -it is never coming, going or changing; never threatened

… the play of life unfolds effortlessly (it always does anyway). There are hard times. There is helping work that gets done. But the former investment in the outcome - to improve ‘me’ or save ‘the world’ - doesn’t really register anymore. Your particular expression naturally leads to an appropriate balance, that ratio, on its own.

I think that’s the true meaning of the advice “seek first the kingdom of heaven”

Peace
 
fink said:
The idea of swimming across the ocean means nothing without the basic training in not drowning?
Click to expand...

Yea, totally.

Kind of like Bird having people say "i didnt know you were THAT guy"

Related to my original reply... I mean psychedelics are vastly popular, for at least the last 60 years, maybe now more then ever.

Having these thoughts that Bird describes are VERY common among users. It's one of the gifts of psychedelics... Not only being shown how the world could be perfect, but how WE can perfect ourselves. Showing us the full spectrum of possibilities, from how to play our small part, all the way to being 'the one' that changes everything. A lot of people experience this while tripping.

There's a big difference between seeing the possibility of it all, and actually following the path to make those things happen though.

Hence his friends comments... Yes, everyone has these insights and feelings, but you can come down from your drug and think "I had these ideas, I am the chosen one that will change the world" or you can come down and think "Wow, that's incredible, I see the potential in how anyone, even me, could achieve greatness and positive influence. Now what can I do every day to work towards that and make it happen?"

If you have no established habits of ever doing anything, sticking to anything, having discipline, or working towards goals, how are you suddenly going to be the great messiah leader? By just preaching the "ideas" you had tripping that, coincidentally, most everyone also has tripping?

I think that touches on some of the big LSD producers, DMT people, etc on how they put that into action. They didn't see themselves as the messiah, but they saw the POWER the substances have to inspire individuals to want to make changes in their lives and work towards that glorious vision we all have of a better earth. As such they put in the work, discipline, risk and skillsets to create and deliver these substances to the masses to catalyze some change.

But yea, anyone with $10 can get the near EXACT same insights, visions, and self-important feelings... The psychedelics show how you have the POTENTIAL of being, that potential for greatness is in everyone... It's those who can actually navigate it into tangible action that become the true leaders and positive-change catalysts
 
I thoroughly enjoy this thread. Psychedelics indeed excel at giving you big ideas but often leave you quite alone afterwards. I have lots of fantasies of doing something big or radical, but none of those ideas have yet convinced me to act. Instead I have done lots of small things to put my own life into order and there's still way to go to point where I'd like to be.

I'm having this fear of settling for a conventional premade life dictated by the society and economics and burying my higher spiritual aspirations that haven't quite taken their form yet.

When taking ayahuasca there is strong urge to do something significant with my life. I recognize that there is strong egocentrism involved, that is not necessarily evil, but it creates suffering with the feeling of lack it carries. Also there is the feeling of power and craving for it.

Maybe my position at the moment is that psychedelics can be a great source of inspiration and empowerment but you need skill, humility and persistance. Also you need to take care of your spiritual path in other ways too so that your purpose is connected with a higher goal and becomes aligned with other similar vectors of intent. That takes patience but when the time is right you have what it takes to act.

I remember having this one psychedelic insight that maybe Jesus was born out of the myriads of messianic seeds that were sown for the mankind but which never sprout. Maybe it is the same seed many experience in their psychedelic trips but very few if any can provide the fertile ground for it to grow. Maybe it's this messianic idea itself that gets into way. Maybe humility is the key, to serve God and submit to him rather than seek the honor to be the high prophet.

PS. Thank you Voidmatrix for your kind words as always.
 
So, fink, sounds like evey time you think about coming out of the shell, out into the world, and being like "This is who I am", "I am valid and worth listening to", you kinda expect the world to... almost sounds like punish you for it.

Has that ever happened to you? Have you ever come out of the shell, happy of being who you are, and found that the world told you to keep it to yourself?
What is the sacrifice that the ego would need to accept to leave the shell and make a real change?
 
Hey Shaded. I'm not explaining what I mean very well, because your questions dont really relate to how I feel about myself on that lower, more personal level. I shall give your questions some thought none the less, just to make sure you are not on to something. Cheers!
 
I can safely say that my issue here is mostly some ego problem. I am embarking on this spiritual journey and im learning that most of this issue comes from missing experience and pent up emotion. Its alot to talk about, but every step i take im more willing to accept without feeling like im special. I mean, everyones special to a degree ofc, but im probably not special special, i dont think im a key person, or say i am, but not like everyone else isnt't one.
 
Back
Top Bottom