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The Limitations of Language

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MindInfoRreality

Rising Star
I would simply like to hear others' opinions on general terms and theories and possibly we could reach a point where we have deconstructed our understanding of the terminology we use for discussion in this area and, who knows, devise our own set of meaningful representations (i.e. instead of refering to something as consciousness, we can difine different aspects of consciousness to use in different circumstances). OR any discussion on HOW(specifically) they feel limited by our current vocavulary of the laymen/philisopher or esoteric/spiritual terms. (try to avoid "God" but yet you can, idk, invent a different word for what you mean)
Please, create examples.
 
MindInfoRreality said:
(try to avoid "God" but yet you can, idk, invent a different word for what you mean)
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..perfect example of the limitations of language right there:wink:
I know what you mean though..I struggle over this alot myself..I really believe that language dictates how we see reality. It can pin us down or free us up, depening on how we chose to utilize it..

It's like there is this things at the centre of it all, we are all grasping out trying to reach this thing, desperatily attemping to describe it, but the thing refuses to submit, and slowly shakes our words off like droplets of water..

language is our greatest tool and most profound limitation all in one..funny isn't it?
 
Better idea

Find an (Electro)Magnetic frequency to disperse all the gravitons in a rock to make it lighter; I also feel like im floating on anti-gravity.

(End Quote).Peace
 
Yea exactly bro

Take spirituality. (what, i would like to achieve a "higher spiritual state" of, above, or within me and im really not clear on what it is..)
 
Language is philosophically as well overestimated as underestimated.
I find the philosophical idea that language defines our reality a bit too radical.

I see that language has it's limitations, but not the human capacity to interpretate language. The more you want to expres something literally and exactly, the more you will meet the limitations of language. If you see language as a sort of mathematics, then you're very right about this.

You can on the other hand, very exactly describe almost anything, if you leave the exact representation to the imagination of the listener.
That's the paradox; if you can allow yourself to communicate less exactly, the content of your message will come through, more exactly.
 
That's the paradox; if you can allow yourself to communicate less exactly, the content of your message will come through, more exactly.
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Using language like mathematics is akin to science, using it as a tool to conjure certain images in other minds is like art (or magic). I'm very much interested in the second aspect, because in my experience that's the only way the really deep ideas can be communicated to others. I had experiences where I became like a channel for an inner wisdom. The inner experience found a way through me and expressed itself in words. I was both a participant and an observer in this process, I felt that the words have a magical quality, being able to evoke the same idea in other minds, by touching exactly those areas of the brain/mind which are involved when one holds the given idea in consciousness. It was like playing on the human mind as an instrument, by pressing the correct buttons, in the correct order, at the appropriate time.

Such magical language may be total nonsense when seen from the "language as mathematics" perspective, but it works. My ideal would be the marriage of the two: talking in such a way that what I say has perfect logical structure, while also having this magical quality I tried to depict above. Unfortunately, the source from where this magical language comes forth is as hard to find as it is to have a full-blown psychedelic experience at will. One cannot make oneself an artist.
 
polytrip said:
I find the philosophical idea that language defines our reality a bit too radical.
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Well, I dont think that language defines reality(objective reality)..I agree that is too radical..but I do think that it defines the way each persons subjective reality manifests, to a point at least.
I think that the way we are able to describe something is directly perportional to the way we are able to understand something..so in that sense, language and conceptualization lock us into our own personal modalities..of course as we have new experiences, our ability to put things into perspective grows, we develope better descriptive abilites and our personal realities "widen"..
 
Language is hugely limited, we say most of what we are feeling with our body language not our mouths. I find reading someones body language gives you far more clues to how someone is truly feeling. Also its really easy to say words, these days a lot of the time they never really mean anything to people.

Actions have far more impact on changing ourselves and the world, its great to sit and talk about things but in actual fact it doesn't get us very far unless that speech inspires action for change.

If used in the right way language can inspire a metamorphosis and change lives if its connected to an action. Words can be beautiful and create happiness but when they are just words and they have no meaning behind them then they are just words and they will just end up fading away into the air to be blown away by the wind.


Much Peace and Happiness
 
yea great point aegle.

I too feel language tends to be radical, almost too exclusive pertaining to the subject at hand(not always, but this is contained within the weak area), methinks that if the time and effort were put into defining the etheric yet relative, our speech would be more relevant to our actual idea in mind(or also the "thought,feeling". as I like to say), otherwise a more efficient system. But yet for day to day actions and/or occurances our language is satisfying, but i sometimes think this is simply because it catagorizes - plus this is obvious place for a group to bring attention to in order to dumb down people and to turn them against one another. Metaphors have us conceptualize a version of reality, but we cannot do that effectively until "our ability to put things into perspective grows, [then] we develope better descriptive abilites [while] our personal realities "widen".."(Fractal Enchantment). Kids really need to see more than the 'this' or the 'that' yet also more than the imagination, there are so many more feelings to be invoked in oneself and not even older heads can reach such a thoughtful state.
 
Fractal Enchantment and MindInfoRreality

Why thank you, I am greatly honored that you both think so.
Just some of my thoughts. :oops:



Much Peace and Happiness
 
Language especially spoken is a flimsy prop I have experienced mental states of great concentration my thoughts lucid and clear yet if I had tried to speak most likely I would not have been able to do so. So for me that is how I see it.


PEACE
MV
 
exactly, MV. clear but innexplainable..you can divulge into any political/humanistic topic, come out with the most engaging and descriptive idea, and yet all you can do is to LEAD the next person there, given they are willing to travel to that point with you and also that you can remember exactly how you felt along the way and the path that you took. Therefore having 'talks' with open-minded and interested friends...progressing with them.
 
Language is an organic phenomenon. General terms cannot refer to what we are really trying to express. Take the term "trip" A voyage, a vacation, a fall due to an offset of your balance, a synopsis of self. What does any of that mean. The nature of agreement of terms necessitates an entire system to be constructed to account for variables of frequency. What about such variables that are determined for the sake of never happening.

The concept of communication needs representation. Not language. Not only would it be redundant but illogical.
 
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