The Marrying of the Plants... Caapi and Acacia

[GustavAnton]

Greetings all! Very happy to finally be a member here. I have been reading threads on this site for many years.

I have been reading a lot about powerful brews made with Acacia and Syrian Rue as well as brews made with Acacia and Caapi.

From what I've read, it seems that many individuals choose to drink the Rue first, and then follow with the Acacia.

In regards to Caapi and Acacia, i've read different things. Some promote the marriage of the plants in the pot, while others suggest drinking the Caapi first and waiting 30 minutes or so before imbibing the Acacia.

Very curious what some of your experiences have been like...

if working with Caapi and Acacia, do you marry the plants in one pot, or opt for drinking them separately.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[bismillah]

MAOi first is best.

 

[dithyramb]

Most economical for sure, but best is up for debate.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I haven't used Caapi but a few times, but with Rue at least i've always taken it 30 minutes to an hour before Mimosa/Acacia/4-ACO/mushrooms, and i've always found that best, gets properly 100% activated, never any duds, makes sense to consume the Psychedelic portion when gut MAO-A reaches it's maximal inhibition, makes things more consistent and reliable. It would be nice to have an all in one tea, but personally i like having things separated, especially so i can make sure it all works properly and i can adjust the dosages to my liking.

 

[dithyramb]

The benefit of "marrying the plants" is to have a medicine which is harmonized in energy/spirit, leaving the imbiber with a more integrated energy. Admittedly this endeavor exceeds the needs of most of us, considering where we are on our quest with these plants.

İ have never tried this with acacia confusa.

 

[Sabnock1990]

In terms of marrying the plants i've never had any issues when separating them, they still synergize and provide a unique character/spirit/personality just fine. I have noticed that different timings have slightly different feels in the beginning, but they all work out just the same in the end. The only thing i can see mixing the plants and consuming them at the same time doing is being more inconsistent and mysterious, hence why some people report an all in one tea sometimes not working and the shamans say even if it doesn't appear to be working the "spirit" is still working... I mean if the DMT portion isn't properly activated, you'll still get the Harmala effects of course, so perhaps that's what they mean, idk.

I for one look more for consistency and reliability personally, and to get the most out of each portion.

 

[dithyramb]

Ï don't see why you can't ensure a dmt effect with appropriate dose calibration with a single tea.

Yes it works just fine drank separately for all needs and purposes of psychedelic aficionados.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Well it's said that when the two are combined that the DMT can be broken down sometimes before the Harmalas have a chance to inhibit gut MAO-A. But i agree, if one has a proper dose of Harmalas, you would think it would protect the DMT even if combined in one dose.

 

[dithyramb]

I associate mimosa and AC with the modern psychonaughtic paradigm and thus never imagined to marry them with rue or caapi. They are DMT and they work properly by drinking separately. I think at least in some traditions, barks are not mixed with caapi. I heard a story where an englishman presented a shipibo healer with mimosa and his response was "Are you loco? Only brujos use that."

 

[Sabnock1990]

I think people are just stuck in tradition and see anything outside of that as somehow inferior, which is ridiculous imo. One can mix any plants they want to if it works right, heck one can even mix Rue and Caapi if they want to. There's like thousands of admixture plants one can mix with this stuff, but most shamans wouldn't even entertain that possibility, however real shamans imo, probably would. Real shamans are experimenters, not traditionalists, they may do or use things that's been done traditionally, but first and foremost they try out new and different things to see what all works.

 

[dithyramb]

What defines "works right" is not objective, IMO. Mimosa may work for us, and there might be real reasons why it doesn't work for the shipibo. Tradition is not necessarily purely irrational blind faith. Shamanism is a science; not of a kind that is part of the modern tradition. It is a subjective science.

Acacia worked right for me for a few years. Now I feel it is not what I truly seek, and there are energetic reasons for it...

DMT might always be DMT when you purify it (I'm not even sure about that), but plants are very different from each other. İf what you want is reliably achieving a psychedelic blast then mimosa is the best option there is. We can't assume that a whole elaborate shamanic tradition is focussed on having the most powerful dmt opening possible.

 

[Sabnock1990]

When i say works right i generally mean there's positive synergy, and no undesirable downsides. So when 2 or more plants are mixed together, what's the synergy between them like, is it desirable or not? is it useful or not? does it feel "right" or not? Each plant has it's own uses, some plants share similar or the same uses, depending on what you're looking to get out of it, some are more preferred for a certain purpose/reason over others.

It's like when people say Rue is inferior to Caapi, i think mainly because of tradition and lack of actual in depth experience with Rue. Yes they're different, they have different personalities/characteristics, some different effects, different ratios of actives, different background compositions, yet they both hold the same potential imo, for me at least i get from Rue what people get from Caapi, and i've learned from experience a lot of what the shamans know about the plants and the art/science/school that is Ayahuasca.

I personally really like Acacia, it's a really mystical/illuminating, magickal and teaching plant, i like Mimosa too but it's just different. So i can see why a particular plant is preferred for one reason or another by someone, but that doesn't make any plant somehow inferior than another. Idk why Ayahuasca traditionalists don't want to use roots, i also don't know why they don't use mushrooms, either on their own or in combination with Caapi instead of the DMT, at least i haven't heard of them using mushrooms much.

 

[bismillah]

AFAIK there is no reaction between the spicy juice and the MAOi tea in the pot. They mix in your stomach as well anyways.
Mixing them into one brew is just wasteful as some of the tryptamines will be destroyed before you become MAO inhibited, and you'd have to take more MAOis to compensate. If there's one thing I hate, it's the guilt of being wasteful. So yes, MAOi first is best.

 

[GustavAnton]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies.

 

[GustavAnton]

á la the above logic, wouldn't it make more sense to brew traditional ayahuasca as two different brews, keeping the Caapi and Chacruna separate...Or... perhaps "make more sense" isn't right... more efficient I suppose.

Something about "marrying the plants" is intuitively enticing to me. But, indeed, we don't want to be wasteful... I imagine myself drinking a small, married cup as an homage to the marriage of the plants, in addition to taking both brews separately.

Has anyone here explored drinking Caapi and Chacruna as separate brews, spaced apart in time?

More bang for you buck?

 

[donfoolio]

I associate mimosa and AC with the modern psychonaughtic paradigm and thus never imagined to marry them with rue or caapi. They are DMT and they work properly by drinking separately. I think at least in some traditions, barks are not mixed with caapi. I heard a story where an englishman presented a shipibo healer with mimosa and his response was "Are you loco? Only brujos use that."

Indeed, in northeastern Brazil the Mimosa-tree is used in the cult of Jurema as well as in the Umbanda-religion. For outsiders, these practices are often labelled under the name of Macumba, black magic. Maybe, this Shipibo-healer heard about the Brazilian tradition. Macumba is a highly prejorative term, used usually by white men to bother afrobrazilian religion. Interesting anyway...

I always combine Acacia and Caapi in the same brew, and drink in the style of Santo Daime several glasses of this brew over the night. It usually happens that the first shot is very subtile, with the Caapi-spirit getting on place and the second one is normally a full breakthrough. If it is surely less economic than drinking separately, I do it for the sake of ritual. I cannot imagine to handle several people, drinking one shot, waiting, second with the acacia after activation, by checking the time, complicated - mixing both is a question of comfort.