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The MDMA Kaleidoscope

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PanaeolusSequence

PanaeolusSequence

Rising Star
My question is peoples knowledge or experiences with various forms of MDMA>> and what the chemical and neurochemical implications are . For instance, brown sugar type, champaigne, or darker purple/black crystal. Usually champaigne is most pure right? "Pure" mdma should be 84% based on my research due to hcl weight. I've read from one source why discoloration can occur in crystal but wanted to confirm here.

Also does anyone know anything of or about the isomers of MDMA R and S similar to K? Some psychedelic studies are being employed with newly patented 'versions' of these molecules.

For example: COMPASS’s patents focus on “psilocybin or an active metabolite thereof,” not just COMP360 (Polymorph A)

Further:

If claims like these are approved—which is not guaranteed—they could include drugs such as 4-AcO-DMT, or CaaMTech’s recently announced novel psilocin prodrugs: 4-AcO-MET hydrofumarate, 4-AcO-MALT hydrofumarate, and 4-AcO-DALT fumarate.

Notably, these applications reach as broadly as possible and do not limit themselves to COMPASS’s already-granted COMP360 psilocybin formulation. Instead, they include a wide range of claims to “psilocybin or an active metabolite thereof,” and then also include narrower claims to their COMP360 Polymorph A—presumably as an option in the event patent examiners reject their broader “psilocybin or an active metabolite thereof” claims.

CMP360


What are peoples experiences with different 'types' of mdma crystal and what are these colorations or discolorations implying chemically in terms of how it affects your body and purity specifically.

Thanks
 
Regarding the compass pathways article. Sounds like a bunch of bullsharks to me. Not that I have anything against taking things made in a laboratory flask but I will stick with mushrooms.
 
Yes it's funny to see. I think its a double edged sword.. As long as research proceeds. People will continue to eat mushrooms regardless. So lets do it.


EDIT

More thoughts welcome on both subjects
 
My experience is such:
- I almost always test my molly with test kit
- Couple of times I didn't test, because it was more or less widely known type of tablets, actually probably the last time I take x. Pure molly is much much better than any xtc pill imo, both in terms of comedown/hangover and subjective effects.
- Among tested and then bioassayed mdma samples there were:
a) very light brownish more towards white crystals and powder
b) black crystals and greyish powder
c) greyish crystals and powder
d) darker brown sugar like crystals of mixed size
e) pure white powder with little crystalls

Sometimes crystals were in forms of bigger rocks.

All samples but e) were very good and colour didn't seem to affect dosage or experience significantly. Black molly was looking exotic but was very good.

Sample e) had effects that felt different from the typical molly and I think it was mephedrone (one of the two times I didn't test).

Taste and smell was also very similar for all colours.

P.s. always test your molly with a kit. I also haven't heard about mdma isomers and would be interested in hearing about differences.
 
The difference between the R- and S- enantiomers is covered in PIHKaL. MDMA, being an amphetamine derivative, has an optically active centre next to the nitrogen atom. MDMA differs from the psychedelic amphetamines in that it is the S-enantiomer that is more active, with the R-enantiomer having minimal activity just as one might expect from N-methylating a serotonergic phenethylamine. However, subjective reports suggest that the racemate (being a mixture of both enantiomers) has more depth to it.

Hmm, CaaMTech... "CaaMTech Furthers 5-MeO-DMT Research with Orally Active 5-MeO-DPT" is the kind of sloppy headline that will have Shulgin turning in his grave. It doesn't "further 5-MeO-DMT research" because 5-MeO-DPT is a different compound. You only further 5-MeO-DMT research by using 5-MeO-DMT. While the science may be OK, this style of reporting is more marketing bullsharks. :sick:
 
Exitwound thank you for your experiential input.

Downwardsfromzero, can you comment on the various forms of MDMA crystal (ie. black, brown, clear, champaigne) and what this means or implies for purity and or chemical process one used generally.

I'm curious as to what the difference between a semi synthetic route vs fully synthetic route might have.


Brushed up on the pihkal entries, thanks.
 
I don't think it has to do with purity. Or at least not by definition, though ofcourse purity may affect the color and shape of your product.

Crystalisation is just something that we don't realy know all the ins and outs off yet.

For instance, chocolate makers go to extreme lengths to get the crystalisation of their product right. It affects how it tastes and feels when you put it in your mouth.

Chocolate with the exact same chemical composition can have a different taste and "bite" when it is crystalised differently.
 
I'm curious as to what the difference between a semi synthetic route vs fully synthetic route might have.
Click to expand...
And I'm curious as to what degree of synthetic counts as fully synthetic. Arguably, crude oil is a natural substance... The exact synthetic route, as well as the skill (and luck) of the chemist involved, will impact the range of impurities found in the final product. As far as how it goes with the balance of the two enantiomers, this would be decided in one of the two last steps and is essentially independent of the kind of starting material used. You can find out how this occurs by reading the literature. This type of synthesis is not something in which we can go into details on this forum.


Over the years, the consistently best results were had with material that most nearly approached large, clear and completely colourless crystals. I've never had black or purple MDMA. Some slightly greenish crystals had a heavier comedown, and the effects of a mid-brown sticky but pleasant smelling material ('honey') were a bit on the weak side but otherwise nothing to complain about. Pre- and post-trip nutrition and supplementation are also factors that need to be taken into account. And besides, I haven't taken MDMA for at least six years now. This makes it pointless to comment on any of the pills that may have crossed my path in the last three decades, even if some of them were very nice 😁
 
I once met a guy who told me that he had produced MDMA himself. This was in the 90's. I don't know if he was for real or just boasting, but he said that his endproduct once consisted of strings of MDMA molecules, and that he had a hard time getting it to form nice looking crystals.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
I'm curious as to what the difference between a semi synthetic route vs fully synthetic route might have.
Click to expand...
And I'm curious as to what degree of synthetic counts as fully synthetic. Arguably, crude oil is a natural substance... The exact synthetic route, as well as the skill (and luck) of the chemist involved, will impact the range of impurities found in the final product. As far as how it goes with the balance of the two enantiomers, this would be decided in one of the two last steps and is essentially independent of the kind of starting material used. You can find out how this occurs by reading the literature. This type of synthesis is not something in which we can go into details on this forum.


Over the years, the consistently best results were had with material that most nearly approached large, clear and completely colourless crystals. I've never had black or purple MDMA. Some slightly greenish crystals had a heavier comedown, and the effects of a mid-brown sticky but pleasant smelling material ('honey') were a bit on the weak side but otherwise nothing to complain about. Pre- and post-trip nutrition and supplementation are also factors that need to be taken into account. And besides, I haven't taken MDMA for at least six years now. This makes it pointless to comment on any of the pills that may have crossed my path in the last three decades, even if some of them were very nice 😁
Click to expand...
\


Awesome thanks
 
When I was younger and doing molly, the only kind you could find was perfectly clear, beautiful crystals. I was thinking of trying some now that I am older, but on the dark net the only kind I can see are these ugly yellow crystals that they euphemistically call "champagne".

I really don't get it. If you are a chemist and can make MDMA, why not do the final recrystallization step and eliminate the ugly yellow color? I think most people would be willing to pay a premium for better looking product.
 
highlightprotein said:
I really don't get it. If you are a chemist and can make MDMA, why not do the final recrystallization step and eliminate the ugly yellow color? I think most people would be willing to pay a premium for better looking product.
Click to expand...
Well, there might be an imperative to get the stuff out of the way as quickly as possible. Hanging around making pretty crystals would present too much of a security risk, either from the point of view of legal detection or maybe with having a gangster pointing a weapon at the chemist's head telling them to hurry the foob up.
 
I have been playing around with MDMA purification for a while now. I started with testing different samples from different vendors, some were purer than the others. The impurity profile is also different for different samples, but I did notice many similarities.

The brown oil can be separated and pretty much everything you find online has it. Then there is some water insoluble gunk which can easily be filtered, but that gunk is only insoluble if the concentration of MDMA is very high. Aside from the oil and water insoluble gunk, there is one other compound which can be distinguished from the MDMA crystals after recrystallization. It has a waxy consistency and forms small circles on the bottom of the crystallization dish. You can easily see it and "cut" it out, keeping the remaining crystals. Some samples became pure and crispy white after just a few recrystallizations, others took around... 10 or so recrystallizations... but the pure stuff is white, crystalline and you can sometimes grow quartz like translucent crystals! For that, you have to get multiple things right, concentration, rate of cooling down, shape and size of container etc etc.

Another thing I tried was purification via A/B. I basified with NaOH, extracted with toluene, acidified with aqueous HCl and evaped the water. In the first run, I ended up with a green gel which wouldn't solidify no matter what I did. In the second run I ended up with black crystals... A few explanations I thought of are that either MDMA itself, or some other trace compounds in there are sensitive to high/low pH. The first time, I carelessly poured in NaOH without measuring, the pH was 14. I also used wayyy too much HCl... the second time I was more careful, increasing the pH only to around 8-9. This time I extracted with DCM, evaped, and added around 3-4 drops of around 20% HCl. That was again too much... I checked and the pH was 1. But anyways, at least there was crystallization this time! there was definitely MDMA in there judging by the crystal morphology. But what was the black stuff, I dunno!

I will try to do things more carefully next time and will see what happens.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
This is probably a relevant thing to link to this thread:
BOOFF Tek for MDMA purification. From brown oily mess to white dry MDMA crystals

Clear, colourless, odourless crystals ought to be preferable to anything else - why eat residues from chemical synthesis?
Click to expand...


As far as I see there are only 2 possible educt impurities:

The allyl-educt which is step 1

The keton-educt which is step 2

Both should be soluble in Aceton, while M-Cl is not. So why would it not be enough to just grind to a very fine powder and stirr in Aceton overnight? (Except of maybe only removing a little less % of educt oils)
 
There are papers on erowid about impurity profile of street MDMA, they have an entire list of impurities, left over reactants, products of side reactions, adulterants etc.

Aceton may dissolve caffeine well, if there is any. But all the samples I tested had no caffeine (there are multiple ways of testing for caffeine, slow evap would yield long caffeine needles, they look quite pretty!). What I also learned during my experiments (which the chemistry experts here could explain better... I am just a philosophy student with a weird hobby) is that you may initially need higher temperature to dissolve things, but not everything falls out when you decrease the temperature. When you dissolve a mixture at higher temperature and then cool to room temperature, some substances will crash out in larger quantities than others. I don't think that the same would be the case if you leave a mixture standing in a solvent for longer periods of time. Meaning that the compounds with higher affinity of staying dissolved, might not necessarily dissolve more. But I am not so sure about that.

Washes work well for removing certain specific compounds like caffeine. Other than that, recrystallization is better! for recrystallization, IPA is good, but the annoying part is that it gets trapped underneath or between the crystals and takes really long to evap. If anyone knows how to better deal with this... please let me know!
 
Dasein said:
There are papers on erowid about impurity profile of street MDMA, they have an entire list of impurities, left over reactants, products of side reactions, adulterants etc.
Click to expand...

Indeed. It wasn't something you had to worry about prior to 2005 but then people started pressing variants of popular logos and it all went downhill. I NEVER consume pressed pills or molly unless I have my testing reagents. However, I'm old now and wouldn't even know where to look for it.
 
Twilight Person said:
downwardsfromzero said:
This is probably a relevant thing to link to this thread:
BOOFF Tek for MDMA purification. From brown oily mess to white dry MDMA crystals

Clear, colourless, odourless crystals ought to be preferable to anything else - why eat residues from chemical synthesis?
Click to expand...


As far as I see there are only 2 possible educt impurities:

The allyl-educt which is step 1

The keton-educt which is step 2

Both should be soluble in Aceton, while M-Cl is not. So why would it not be enough to just grind to a very fine powder and stirr in Aceton overnight? (Except of maybe only removing a little less % of educt oils)
Click to expand...
Besides the reagent residues mentioned by Dasein, there may also be impurities derived from the starting materials.
Take a look at the following to get some idea of what this might entail. It goes beyond your initial assumptions quite considerably:
Basic and neutral route specific impurities in MDMA prepared by different synthesis methods: Comparison of impurity profiles
A study of impurities in intermediates and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) samples produced via reductive amination routes
The synthesis and characterisation of MDMA derived from a catalytic oxidation of material isolated from black pepper reveals potential route specific impurities
 
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