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as i said, smoke and mirrors..in trying to sidestep the basic issue, chocobeastie, in which you say no one else has come up with the idea of changa, despite repeated bits of evidence, you then try to divert into vague and imo delusional acusations against others..such as trying to say there is some kind of old school cabal plotting against you, and now, of Nen: "up until you started posting on the nexus, you largely appeared against people using DMT at all and just wanted people to leave the trees alone!".. i think the only people i have ever heard suggest this are you and a handful of dmt-salespeople..i have consistently been against people pillaging wild areas and selling dmt, and have encouraged people to grow their own plants and not buy, sell or commodify dmt..for a long time..by the time you appear chocobeastie i was taking a good long break from the world of conferences etc..your assertion is ridiculous, especially in the context of the past 20 years..the information on using branches or twigs as more sustainable was being put out there in the mid 90s, but ignored by the greedy or ignorant, or just wasn't well circulated enough knowledge, unfortunately ..i definitely think certain individual people should leave trees alone, that everyone should leave national parks and rare trees alone, and that a few individuals who have tried and made changa (so called) could question what benefits this has really had on their states of mind, and could ponder leaving it alone...as for indigenous custodians and speaking on their behalf, i guess you acuse them of the same things as me..but what you don't seem to get is that trying to look after the environment and sacred places is not an ego driven self interested exercise, which is what i find a lot of your supposed debate to be..

now, please leave me out of this debate, which is about the origin of the concept of changa..which you claim exclusive origin and invention of, which is what most here disagree with..and just let the evidence speak for itself.. rather than using diversions, manipulations (especially regarding me or others) and smoke screens around the argument..which you dodge and distract in multiple ways..

the other ways Snozzelberry has summed up

perhaps this is more like the 'smoking mirror'..
.

an afternote: hug46, thank you for your positive outlook..everyone here at the nexus plays a role in bringing greater awareness to these issues..the positives i do think outweigh the problems..the culture continues to evolve..

one comment by dreamer042 is interesting, with regards to how and in what form information is disseminated or influences, and on the importance of self empowering educational tools like the nexus..to chocobeastie, dreamer042 wrote:

<blockquote data-quote="nen888" data-source="post: 3811241" data-attributes="member: 16">as i said, smoke and mirrors..in trying to sidestep the basic issue, chocobeastie, in which you say no one else has come up with the idea of changa, despite repeated bits of evidence, you then try to divert into vague and imo delusional acusations against others..such as trying to say there is some kind of old school cabal plotting against you, and now, of Nen:&nbsp; &quot;up until you started posting on the nexus, you largely appeared against people using DMT at all and just wanted people to leave the trees alone!&quot;.. i think the only people i have ever heard suggest this are you and a handful of dmt-salespeople..i have consistently been against people pillaging wild areas and selling dmt, and have encouraged people to grow their own plants and not buy, sell or commodify dmt..for a long time..by the time you appear chocobeastie i was taking a good long break from the world of conferences etc..your assertion is ridiculous, especially in the context of the past 20 years..the information on using branches or twigs as more sustainable was being put out there in the mid 90s, but ignored by the greedy or ignorant, or just wasn&#039;t well circulated enough knowledge, unfortunately ..i definitely think certain individual people should leave trees alone, that everyone should leave national parks and rare trees alone, and that a few individuals who have tried and made changa (so called) could question what benefits this has really had on their states of mind, and could ponder leaving it alone...as for indigenous custodians and speaking on their behalf, i guess you acuse them of the same things as me..but what you don&#039;t seem to get is that trying to look after the environment and sacred places is not an ego driven self interested exercise, which is what i find a lot of your supposed debate to be..now, please leave me out of this debate, which is about the origin of the concept of changa..which you claim exclusive origin and invention of, which is what most here disagree with..and just let the evidence speak for itself.. rather than using diversions, manipulations (especially regarding me or others) and smoke screens around the argument..which you dodge and distract in multiple ways..the other ways Snozzelberry has summed up perhaps this is more like the &#039;smoking mirror&#039;...an afternote: hug46, thank you for your positive outlook..everyone here at the nexus plays a role in bringing greater awareness to these issues..the positives i do think outweigh the problems..the culture continues to evolve..one comment by dreamer042 is interesting, with regards to how and in what form information is disseminated or influences, and on the importance of self empowering educational tools like the nexus..to chocobeastie, dreamer042 wrote:</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nen888, post: 3811241, member: 16"] as i said, smoke and mirrors..in trying to sidestep the basic issue, chocobeastie, in which you say no one else has come up with the idea of changa, despite repeated bits of evidence, you then try to divert into vague and imo delusional acusations against others..such as trying to say there is some kind of old school cabal plotting against you, and now, of Nen: "up until you started posting on the nexus, you largely appeared against people using DMT at all and just wanted people to leave the trees alone!".. i think the only people i have ever heard suggest this are you and a handful of dmt-salespeople..i have consistently been against people pillaging wild areas and selling dmt, and have encouraged people to grow their own plants and not buy, sell or commodify dmt..for a long time..by the time you appear chocobeastie i was taking a good long break from the world of conferences etc..your assertion is ridiculous, especially in the context of the past 20 years..the information on using branches or twigs as more sustainable was being put out there in the mid 90s, but ignored by the greedy or ignorant, or just wasn't well circulated enough knowledge, unfortunately ..i definitely think certain individual people should leave trees alone, that everyone should leave national parks and rare trees alone, and that a few individuals who have tried and made changa (so called) could question what benefits this has really had on their states of mind, and could ponder leaving it alone...as for indigenous custodians and speaking on their behalf, i guess you acuse them of the same things as me..but what you don't seem to get is that trying to look after the environment and sacred places is not an ego driven self interested exercise, which is what i find a lot of your supposed debate to be.. now, please leave me out of this debate, which is about the origin of the concept of changa..which you claim exclusive origin and invention of, which is what most here disagree with..and just let the evidence speak for itself.. rather than using diversions, manipulations (especially regarding me or others) and smoke screens around the argument..which you dodge and distract in multiple ways.. the other ways Snozzelberry has summed up perhaps this is more like the 'smoking mirror'.. . an afternote: hug46, thank you for your positive outlook..everyone here at the nexus plays a role in bringing greater awareness to these issues..the positives i do think outweigh the problems..the culture continues to evolve.. one comment by dreamer042 is interesting, with regards to how and in what form information is disseminated or influences, and on the importance of self empowering educational tools like the nexus..to chocobeastie, dreamer042 wrote: [/QUOTE]