The wheel in the sky keeps on turning!..good ole records are back again!

[starway7]

The wheel in the sky keeps on turning!!

i saw on tv this morning .. that vinal is getting super popular again!...

The younger generation has finally found the quality music of past times ..:thumb_up:



Vinyl records are back and more popular than ever!. A new report found that vinyl record sales continued their more than decade-long growth in 2022, and for the first time in more than three decades, outsold CDs in the number of units.Mar 10, 2023

Vinyl record sales top CDs for first time in more than 30 years

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[null24]

Today (4/22/23) is Record Store day, go support your local wax monger.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

I regret that vinyl records have become fashionable again, the prices are going crazy. It's become a fairground for speculators, and I'm not even talking about the RSD, where records that are already expensive at the start are bought by guys who shop at the opening and then resell them for 5 times more on Discogs.

 

[hug454]

I used to love buying records, but they are an inefficient format for listening for my current lifestyle. They are expensive. Even if i find something on discogs for 3 euros, i'll end up paying at least double that for the post. I will probably sell my record decks soon but i dont think that it is worth selling my records on discogs as, even though i have quite a few that maybe worth a lot, they have travelled to various places with me over the years and become quite dog eared and well used and big money payers want mint condition. I don't have a problem with people trying to sell second hand records for profit if people are willing to pay. Same goes for any nostalgia related nik naks.

Also i dont think that buying new is a very good format for the environment.

Ableton co-founder Robert Henke wants to “fully embrace CDs”, is considering “not doing any releases on vinyl anymore”

Ableton co-founder and artist Robert Henke argues in a lengthy Facebook post that it’s time for the music industry to embrace the “underrated” compact disc format going forward.

musictech.com

 

[Toshido]

I regret that vinyl records have become fashionable again, the prices are going crazy. It's become a fairground for speculators, and I'm not even talking about the RSD, where records that are already expensive at the start are bought by guys who shop at the opening and then resell them for 5 times more on Discogs.

It's absurd really. When you were posting pics of your records in chat I hopped over to discogs for the first time in probably 1-2 years and was like "WHOA WHAT THE CRAP!?"

The shipping costs are even higher.

I hope it comes back down. Older records are already hard to get especially if you have a budget, so I'm not about the popularity either. Beginner audiophiles that are spoiled and rich that treat records as a cool fad to get into are going to drive up the prices and eat up the rare records.

Oh well, at least I have an extensive collection of cassettes with vintage audio receivers and a dope 80's Panasonic boom box, I'll just get back to collecting tapes.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

It's absurd really. When you were posting pics of your records in chat I hopped over to discogs for the first time in probably 1-2 years and was like "WHOA WHAT THE CRAP!?"
The shipping costs are even higher.

Yes, prices including shipping cost have become insane, that's why I've been slowing down vinyl purchases for a few years. But even buying in shops without shipping costs remains incredibly expensive. This maddening turn in prices started around 2015 I would say. Compared to the 2000-2010 decade, in 2023 the prices are nearly twice as high.

I hope it comes back down. Older records are already hard to get especially if you have a budget, so I'm not about the popularity either.

Me too, I preferred when the vinyl world evolved in the shadows. The worst part of it all : in the UK their was a survey that showed that nearly half of vinyl buyers never listen to them, and that nearly 10% of buyers didn't have a turntable to listen to them.

Oh well, at least I have an extensive collection of cassettes with vintage audio receivers and a dope 80's Panasonic boom box, I'll just get back to collecting tapes.

The cassettes are also coming back into fashion. This will pbobably also be the case with the CD in the near future. Actually I think physical medias are coming back into fashion as a reaction to the increasing dematerialization of the world.

 

[Toshido]

Me too, I preferred when the vinyl world evolved in the shadows. The worst part of it all : in the UK their was a survey that showed that nearly half of vinyl buyers never listen to them, and that nearly 10% of buyers didn't have a turntable to listen to them.

Oh man that just breaks my heart. I'll admit there are a few records I haven't given enough love, but most of them get played regular. I have 2 tables so sometimes I'll play around, but usually only 1 is being used.

The cassettes are also coming back into fashion. This will probably also be the case with the CD in the near future. Actually I think physical medias are coming back into fashion as a reaction to the increasing dematerialization of the world.

I've noticed too... but the CD becoming popular again would be pretty hilarious. There is a definite importance to local storage though. Digital media even degrades over time, slowly losing their highs and lows. I've noticed this with certain digital copies of CD's I burned back in the late 90's. They sound like crap. Of course, that was before I 1) discovered lossless FLAC and 2) could afford a hard drive large enough to fit all of them.

It's amazing how many gigabytes and now terabytes you can fit in such small mediums like microSD cards and m.2 drives. We've come a longggggg way. I used to edit film on 5600 and 7200rpm 200GB external hard disc drives and they were incredible expensive and faulty. Having 4 of those puppies with Raid 0 or 1 or a NAS drive was only affordable to the wealthy.

 

[MAGMA17]

I don't think it will happen that CDs will regain popularity. We are all accustomed to high audio quality thanks to the internet which now transmits data at a surprising speed. Why should I buy a CD (44.1 khz quality MP3) if I can insert an USB stick with 96 or even 192 khz WAV or FLAC files inside the car (for free)?

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

I don't think it will happen that CDs will regain popularity. We are all accustomed to high audio quality thanks to the internet which now transmits data at a surprising speed.

It's not a question of sound quality actually. Vinyl and cassettes are back in fashion because they are physical objects. From an audiophile point of view, they are below CD in term of audio quality. That's why I'm betting CD could have its revival too, like vinyl and cassettes have nowadays. It's not about sound quality - even if better than vinyl or cassettes - but about the fact that it's a physical media too. My point was : "I think physical medias are coming back into fashion as a reaction to the increasing dematerialization of the world."

 

[artificer]

TST, there might be some truth to the physical media having some draw to people that electronically stored/streamed music does not simply because of the physical nature, however I beg to differ on audio quality - on a proper turntable with high end stylus, quality vinyl has more complete and full range / rich sound than the same track on CD. At one point I had roommates that had amazing vinyl collection with good turntables, preamp, amp, speakers etc and I was awestruck on the quality and full immersion experience with vinyl in just stereo. I would not say the same about cassette (ime anyway). I can't imagine CDs coming back - but perhaps some other physical audio medium with vinyl-like quality?

 

[MAGMA17]

I don't think it will happen that CDs will regain popularity. We are all accustomed to high audio quality thanks to the internet which now transmits data at a surprising speed.

It's not a question of sound quality actually. Vinyl and cassettes are back in fashion because they are physical objects. From an audiophile point of view, they are below CD in term of audio quality. That's why I'm betting CD could have its revival too, like vinyl and cassettes have nowadays. It's not about sound quality - even if better than vinyl or cassettes - but about the fact that it's a physical media too. My point was : "I think physical medias are coming back into fashion as a reaction to the increasing dematerialization of the world."

Vinyls ARE the audiophile choice even nowadays, not replaceable by anything digital, as there will always be some data loss in an analog-to-digital conversion. That’s mathematical. CDs are a choice of convenience, already beaten by the convenience of a digital file. CDs just don't make sense to exist.

 

[hug454]

Vinyls ARE the audiophile choice even nowadays, not replaceable by anything digital, as there will always be some data loss in an analog-to-digital conversion. That’s mathematical.

I would hazard a guess that most modern releases and some re-issues are cut to vinyl from a digital master.

Why should I buy a CD (44.1 khz quality MP3) if I can insert an USB stick with 96 or even 192 khz WAV or FLAC files inside the car (for free)?

Cds are wav files, not mp3. And i would put 10 euros on a bet that you or i would not be able to tell the difference between a 44.1 kHz audio wav file and a lossless flac on even an above average sound system. Spotify runs at 320Kbps and utube less. Also streaming platforms "normalise" their content in order to get a more uniform volume over various tracks that are uploaded and so some tracks that have not been mastered specifically for streaming can lose their dynamic range. I think that cd quality kicks the shit out of anything that is streamed from the internet. Although again i don't have the ears to tell the difference between 320kbps mp3 and a cd. I have heard a utube rip, then vinyl and then a 320 mp3 on a sound system at a party. The mp3 blew the others out the water for punch and clarity. But i guess it's all subjective. My subjective view is that vinyl/audiophile superiority is just hipster styled, nostalgia based ,emperors new clothes and the only good thing about physical media is that you are getting an artifact. I could be wrong though. I'm sure that someone who is a bit more savvy about audio engineering will wade in sooner or later...

 

[Toshido]

It's not a question of sound quality actually. Vinyl and cassettes are back in fashion because they are physical objects."

It's true. Not enough people admit that. Of course, if you are fortunate enough to be able to put tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars into your speaker set up, vinyl is far superior. But for most of us we're just lying to ourselves about it. I happen to like the crispy record sound for what it is, which is knowing you're listening to a physical copy. An amplified sound of a microscopic needle hitting the grooves of a record. If you put your ear up to it, you can hear the music even when the amplified sound is off. It's very cool.

Alas, a FLAC sounds way better. Saying that upsets some people.

 

[Toshido]

Cds are wav files, not mp3. And i would put 10 euros on a bet that you or i would not be able to tell the difference between a 44.1 kHz audio wav file and a lossless flac on even an above average sound system.

I actually can. The same way I can tell at a moments notice if something is 1080i or 1080p. If you surround yourself with audio/video (for me it's work and hobby) you just start to notice these things. To the average person? Meh not really. It's honestly a curse more than it is a blessing.

Digitally stored files (say on a hard drive) actually degrade slowly over time. The highs and lows start to diminish.

Edit: Sorry for double post, was an accident.

 

[hug454]

Digitally stored files (say on a hard drive) actually degrade slowly over time. The highs and lows start to diminish.

How does this happen? Surely that is down to physical degradation of what the files are stored in , rather than the files themselves?

As an aside, I've read quite a few comments about albums on discogs over the years. Most of them are by anoraks discussing label mis prints, quality of pressing on re-issues or some such. Best comment by a a country mile is for UF Orb....."this album helped me get through my first ever whitey after smoking hash for the first time at high school. "

 

[Toshido]

[YOUTUBE]

 

[hug454]

Hmmm that video is just saying that the storage medium can be suspect, making it difficult to read the files, which is what i said. The files don't degrade, they just become harder to read. And i still don't get how just the highs and lows diminish over time. Surely it would be across the board?

Iv'e got another question for you. If you are fortunate enough to be able to put tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars into your speaker , amp and record player set up and you buy a record that has been recorded and mixed on pro tools (digital), does the record sound better than a digital copy?

 

[Toshido]

Hmmm that video is just saying that the storage medium can be suspect, making it difficult to read the files, which is what i said. The files don't degrade, they just become harder to read. And i still don't get how just the highs and lows diminish over time. Surely it would be across the board?

Iv'e got another question for you. If you are fortunate enough to be able to put tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars into your speaker , amp and record player set up and you buy a record that has been recorded and mixed on pro tools (digital), does the record sound better than a digital copy?

You inspired me to me to double check my findings as it was something I read on another site by an audio professional but after reading it again it sounds like complete bullshit.

"Hearing the difference now isn't the reason to encode to FLAC. FLAC uses lossless compression, while MP3 is "lossy". What this means is that for each year the MP3 sits on your hard drive, it will lose roughly 12kbps, assuming you have SATA about 15kbps on IDE, but only 7kbps on SCSI, due to rotational velocidensity. You don't want to know how much worse it is on CD-ROM or other optical media."

"I started collecting MP3s in about 2001, and if I try to play any of the tracks I downloaded back then, even the stuff I grabbed at 320kbps, they just sound like crap. The bass is terrible, the midrange is well don't get me started. Some of those albums have degraded down to 32 or even 16kbps. FLAC rips from the same period still sound great, even if they weren't stored correctly, in a cool, dry place. Seriously, stick to FLAC, you may not be able to hear the difference now, but in a year or two, you'll be glad you did."

None of that makes any sense. But the video I posted is basically what I would research eventually. So you're right, it has nothing to do with the actual file, it's only the condition of the medium on which it's stored. So glad to have unlearned that nonsense.

As for your second question. I'm not fortunate to be able to spend that kind of money, I've just been in other peoples listening rooms and studios and heard it for myself. One of my best friends works for a well known A/V installation company and I get to visit sometimes.

But yes that can actually work if you have something called a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) not the cheap ones you can get for 200 bucks, I've seen rigs that are like 50 grand or something. I couldn't even tell you how it works. I'm more of a video guy.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Vinyls ARE the audiophile choice even nowadays, not replaceable by anything digital, as there will always be some data loss in an analog-to-digital conversion. That’s mathematical.

Almost all of the vinyl records pressed these days are from digital masters. Digital mastering arrived in the late 1970s. Vinyl records where the processing chain is analog from start to finish are extremely rare and mainly concerns 60's and 70's recordings. Even if the final media (vinyl) is analogue, it is only a reconversion from data which at one point in the process has been cut and processed digitally. Anyway, from an audiophile and technical point of view, CD is superior to vinyl : (far) better noise/signal ratio, (far) less wow&flutter, (far) better frequencies response, better channels separation, etc. Also, sound on vinyl is not homogeneous, the closer you get to the center of the record, the less sound information there is. Not to mention that on vinyl, low frequencies are converted from stereo to mono because most of the cartridges can't handle stereo bass, making them skipping. Notice that I say that when I myself am a big fan of vinyl, which I have been collecting for over 30 years.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

TST, there might be some truth to the physical media having some draw to people that electronically stored/streamed music does not simply because of the physical nature, however I beg to differ on audio quality - on a proper turntable with high end stylus, quality vinyl has more complete and full range / rich sound than the same track on CD. At one point I had roommates that had amazing vinyl collection with good turntables, preamp, amp, speakers etc and I was awestruck on the quality and full immersion experience with vinyl in just stereo. I would not say the same about cassette (ime anyway). I can't imagine CDs coming back - but perhaps some other physical audio medium with vinyl-like quality?

As I said in my post above, technically speaking, CD is superior to vinyl (better noise/signal ratio, less wow&flutter, better frequencies response etc.) I have Technics SL1210MKII decks (X3) and a decent sound system, indeed vinyl sounds nice, but the "better sounding" of vinyl is mainly due to artifact. Also, in most vinyl records, the analog chain has been broken by a digital process. Most of the time the only thing that remains analog is the final medium, which basically is made of digital data slices that end up glued together on an analog medium. That said, I'm a huge vinyl fan, I have about 5000 at home, I've been collecting them since the late 80's. I prefer the soft sound of vinyl but that's mostly because my ears are used to it. And if the sound sounds softer on vinyl, it's because of the mastering that was done on it, to adapt to the different physical constraints of the medium. I'm sure that if we applied the same mastering to CD's as for vinyl, people would find that the CD sounds better when in reality they will just be listening to stuff softened by lowered high frequencies (and whithout the crackles&pops of vinyl).