There are no particles, there are only fields

[joedirt]

I came across a paper soon to be published in The American Journal of Physics that makes a pretty strong case that we should drop particule based thinking and just embrace the wave phenomena. Personally I tend to agree with this author and think that the particule behavior is really just a special case eigenstate of the wave function.

From the abstract

Quantum foundations are still unsettled, with mixed effects on science and society.
By now it should be possible to obtain consensus on at least one issue: Are the
fundamental constituents fields or particles? As this paper shows, experiment and
theory imply unbounded fields, not bounded particles, are fundamental.

I've attached the full paper and encourage those that are interested to read it. It's VERY approachable and rather easy to read in comparison to a lot of physics papers. The author does a great job of making his point and keeps the focus to particles vs waves and sidesteps any philosophical implications though he does go out of his way to address all the pseudoscience that has arise from the apparent particle wave paradox.

Enjoy

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.4616.pdf

 

[InMotion]

I actually watched a talk on this recently. Though I do agree with the idea that all of the fundamental particles exist as wave-forms, I think it's a horrible idea to drop the particle model in certain settings.

In academics good luck teaching kids or entry level physics students about waves before particles. Also the particle phenomenon is what is largely observed due to quantum mechanics. So it's a useful tool. The true nature is apparently now being theorized to be infinitely unbounded fields, though when observed we still do witness particles, so they aren't completely irrelevant.

 

[Hieronymous]

But haven't physicists teleported particles before ?

I've read a fair bit on this topic and it seems to be an elusive issue that will be an ongoing issue for some time. The observer effect has been known to be a real ghost in the system and influences the outcome of many experiments, so many experiments are subjective and don't produce definitive answers for anything.

I suppose I should shut up and read the paper before I make myself look silly.

 

[joedirt]

I encourage you guy's to take the time to read the paper.
It is a little long, but this author does a great job of making a very solid case.

What this author argues, and I agree with is that:
What they have observed is particle like behavior arising from fields.
The old mantra was we have observed wave like behavior arising from particules thus they must exist in a duality of states. This has led to a lot of psuedoscience...which this author also addresses at the very beginning of the paper.

Turns out the math used to describe these so called particules is a wave equation..the schrodinger wave equation to be more precise.

Inmotion I see no reason why kids can't be taught waves over particles. Photons from the sun are a great way to teach them. Besides that particule like behavior is still observed and should obviously still be taught, but we should consider not teaching them that there is a particle-wave duality. Instead we should teach that their are fields that in special cases "condense/collapse" to the point that they display particle like behavior. But let's be honest here even when these fields are acting like so called particles are still really fields. In chemistry we talk of electron clouds being smeared across a molecule. We rarely talk about a single electron like it's a particle...ok that last statement may be more true of computational chemists than lab chemists, but either way even lab chemist understand that electron clouds are really smeared across the entire molecule and are simply more localized around highly electronegative atoms.

BTW This view in no way changes the 2 slit experiment. There is still a lot of strangeness around the observer effect. I mean the fields do act like waves and they also act like particles. Its just that it makes much more sense to by and large think of them as continuous fields. The discovery of the Higgs field (not the boson) also gives merit to this. I mean the Higgs field ( An infinite continuous field) is what causes these other fields to collapse and display particule like behavior by giving them mass....sorta.

Besides that arguing that we should teach something that isn't true just because people can't understand the truth seems absurd at best. There is alway's a way to teach, but obviously we aren't going to be teaching quantum field theory (AKA PArticle Physics) to a bunch of kids. My grad school advisor once made a statement to me that if you can't explain it to someone that doesn't know, then you don't understand it yourself.

One last point that is more for Hieronymous: Particle Physics == Quantum field theory. Quantum field theory is what is used to understand particle physics experiments.

Seriously I encourage you guy's to take the time to actually read the paper.

 

[a1pha]

Very interesting, joedirt. Thank you for posting. It's on my reading list for the day, once I wake up and have some coffee.

 

[Hieronymous]

After a quick preliminary skim of the paper, I've got to admit they do present some good and at times somewhat ambiguous points.

I can foresee a few sleepless nights boggling over this like when I first started investigating Bose Einstien condensates and Higgs theory. Thanks for that

 

[Rising Spirit]

I found this to be a most fascinating read, although at times it was laborious for me to wade through the mathematics. I am largely a right-brained creature, so this is completely baffling to me, as if it were another language (which it certainly is). But in every other way, it was most compelling.

On many levels, Quantum Field Theory holds symmetry to many of my deepest spiritual queries, most fervent contemplations and most challenging attempts to understand what is making this existence manifest into seemingly finite being, held together by some intelligence. What initiates it all? I've often felt that this quantifiable physical reality is superimposed upon a vast and dimensionless field of energy, like like our material dream is actually a hologram (when viewed from this angle).

Just what these essential fields are... may be the most spiritual question of them all. And what exists within the subtlest, core aspect of these fields? Ultimately, if there is an ultimate anything, what underlies the particular field... or is the field it's own source and cause of it's being, for some mysterious reason emerging from no-thingness? :?

If quantum fields and vacuums are observable phenomenon, hypothetically speaking, can we take the next giant step and find evidence of The Unified Field? Is there a point where fields interlink as an unbound Uni-field or would this singularity be something other than an actual field?

It also seems, in a general sort of way, to share symmetries with the Upanishads and Taoism (at least by way of my own interpretation). Meaning, nothing has a fixed or frozen state of permanence or "reality". Every appearance, even that of particle-like behavior, is another illusion based on one's interpretation of one's subjective cognition?

Art is very persuasive and his logic seems to be quite sound. I personally found the concepts of quantum field excitations, fluctuations and quantum vacuums quite intriguing! Would this be akin, microscopically, with the macroscopic polarity, black holes? Overall, it was well worth my time to read. Thank you joedirt, for bringing it to my attention. :thumb_up:

On a somewhat related topic, and from a Hyperspacial vantage point, how many of you folks see The Grid when peaking on psychedelics, especially with vaporized NN-DMT? When I have visualized this blooming pattern, it has appeared to be n oscillating field of energy, with points of light where waves of energy meet and intersect, thus forming the whole web of unified patterning. And would it be foolish to see this "hallucination" as a fractal visualization and symbolic encoding, to humanize this principle, of a universal quantum field?

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

I've been saying this for years and think it is self evident that particles are just a set of criteria that we establish, not actual entities.

It solves and explains the uncertainty principal and a host of other issues.

 

[embracethevoid]

I've been saying this for years and think it is self evident that particles are just a set of criteria that we establish, not actual entities.

It solves and explains the uncertainty principal and a host of other issues.

Good stuff :thumb_up:


I've seen both "The Grid" (Alex Grey's artwork bears it well)

High dose harmala (ayahuasca) brings on this characteristic:

I also notice Calabi-Yau manifolds appearing and undulating on smoked spice and higher dose oral doses. Very amazing to see it resonating through your body. You don't just see the Calabi-Yau, you sink your awareness into that itsef and it's felt like being in a light filled void; I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about but good luck explaining it to anyone who hasn't ventured into psychedelia!

"Is there a point where fields interlink as an unbound Uni-field or would this singularity be something other than an actual field? "

That "point" is what you are experiencing here, now. I wouldn't really call it a "point", just some wacky intricate beyond measure structure undulating yet etching itself into its own fabric and growing by a series of endless reflections of itself.

 

[Vodsel]

Thanks for sharing, it's worth thinking about.

I really liked this in the intro:

quantum physics is about interactions of microscopic systems with the macroscopic world rather than just about measurements.

(p.1)

Regarding the double slit experiment,

each electron interacts with a portion of a fluorescent film, creating some 500 photons; these photons excite a photo cathode, producing photo electrons that are then focused into a point image that is displayed on a TV monitor (Ref. 51). This shows that a quantum can interact locally with atoms, but it doesn't show that quanta are point particles.

(p.14)

Seems like we wouldn't change the outcome of the double slit experiment, and the evidence provided by it, by increasing the resolution of the registration.

Also, from this,

Each electron carries information about the entire pattern and collapses to a much smaller region upon interaction.

(p.15)

You could say that particles are expressions of the interaction between fields. That particles happen only in the observation.

But haven't physicists teleported particles before ?

They have teleported information... note that the phenomenon is "entanglement-assisted", which means that in order to teleport you need two entangled particles (that you could see as two "resonating" fields) so you can transfer the state of one to the other.

I like that it goes along very nicely with the concept of a holographic universe, where the manifestation of the globality is in every part, where you have an (infinite?) number of interacting fields - that become waves/particles when we capture them in our four dimensions, and we can capture them when there is an interaction. Photons seem to be strangely related to consciousness.

The hologram of a 3D object is recorded in a 2D interference pattern... maybe all the fields are interferences of a reality in a higher dimensional configuration.

Also, it's cool because the idea has qualities that resonate with experiences beyond strict scientific research.

 

[nen888]

..the scalar fields are external to time..
from a holographic/enfolded calabi-yau/10 dimensional perspective (yes, quantum physics is increasingly old-school) the 'point' in time is simply another value a the field (which is not 'in' space/time)
no information is lost or gained..every physical or temporal point is contained within the field..