Thoughts and Q's about extractions

[Th Entity]

Hey Nexians!
I have a bunch of questions

1)Acidifying
A cycle of warming and leaving to room temp is best. NOT a constant Hot temp
Leave to soak for at least one hour.

1)Question: Why a cycle of warming/cooling is superior to constant hot temp and why 1 hour, why not more or less?


2)Use heatbath for faster separation of polar and nonpolar or run hot water from shower over it.

2)Question: Instead of heatbath or shower why not use hairdrier or heat gun to warm EVENLY bottle/flask for better separation? (Lets consider we know what we are doing and there is no fire
hazard) would that be better/easier than water bath or shower?


3)Question: Does someone know if/whats the dmt(acetate) decomposition temperature is while in solution under low pH? (I ask because i want to know at how high temp i can do the acidic boils).


4)Question: What you think about doing a NaCL/water wash after the first Sodium Carb/water wash
(on the non polar pulls)


5)Question: After collecting the pulls is it a good idea to filter the nonpolar/dmt solvent through
lab filter paper or diatomaceous earth or even activated carbon?


6)(Max Ion Cyb's Tek) Transfer material to your glass extraction vessel
and add a small amount of distilled vinegar OR
ascorbic acid (vit C) OR citric acid to a minimal
amount filtered water (approx 50ml) and the pour
into the vessel.

6)Question: Why dilute the already diluted acetic acid (vinegar) in water/vinegar solution to acidfy bark/water mix, cant i use a pipette to add drop by drop vinegar or even 100% acetic acid to acidify?

Thank you for your time! :thumb_up:

 

[Th Entity]

7)Question: After freeze percip in freezer and removing solvent from dish is it good idea to put the dish with the percipitated crystals in a vacuum chamber to quickly "suck" and evap the remaining solvent? (Instead of turning dish upside down and letting evap on its own) Just like the last step of making BHO (the purge).

C'mon let's discuss! :d

 

[Th Entity]

Nobody?

 

[red291113]

Haha,,I wish I had some answers 2 your questions..I'm the same way with this lifestyle,,always wanting to know more and seeking as much information as possible,if not for application,then for simple curiosity,and knowledge
I'm currently doing a ACRB Extraction ,switching things up a bit to see if it achieves certain expectations I set fourth,,but totally off topic to your post,I hope some1 chimes in ,cuz now I want to know the answers to your questions haha,,,Peace and Love Bro,and positive vibes always...

 

[Th Entity]

HAHA thanks man seeing someone reply even without answears give me hope and good energy thank you Im smiling :thumb_up:

 

[pastanostra]

Hey Nexians!
I have a bunch of questions

1)Acidifying
A cycle of warming and leaving to room temp is best. NOT a constant Hot temp
Leave to soak for at least one hour.

1)Question: Why a cycle of warming/cooling is superior to constant hot temp and why 1 hour, why not more or less?


2)Use heatbath for faster separation of polar and nonpolar or run hot water from shower over it.

2)Question: Instead of heatbath or shower why not use hairdrier or heat gun to warm EVENLY bottle/flask for better separation? (Lets consider we know what we are doing and there is no fire
hazard) would that be better/easier than water bath or shower?


3)Question: Does someone know if/whats the dmt(acetate) decomposition temperature is while in solution under low pH? (I ask because i want to know at how high temp i can do the acidic boils).


4)Question: What you think about doing a NaCL/water wash after the first Sodium Carb/water wash
(on the non polar pulls)


5)Question: After collecting the pulls is it a good idea to filter the nonpolar/dmt solvent through
lab filter paper or diatomaceous earth or even activated carbon?


6)(Max Ion Cyb's Tek) Transfer material to your glass extraction vessel
and add a small amount of distilled vinegar OR
ascorbic acid (vit C) OR citric acid to a minimal
amount filtered water (approx 50ml) and the pour
into the vessel.

6)Question: Why dilute the already diluted acetic acid (vinegar) in water/vinegar solution to acidfy bark/water mix, cant i use a pipette to add drop by drop vinegar or even 100% acetic acid to acidify?

Thank you for your time! :thumb_up:

1/Maybe while warming your acidic mix, fiber material expand, and while cooling it "unexpand". Allowing fiber to destroy then release alk. But it's subjective, i belive if starting from powder the difference will be minimal.

2/A water bath seems better as it heat all the immerged flask, water keep heat a long time.
Electric things for heating solvent seems a bit dangerous if any electric spark is made by electric thing.

3/You can do pretty hard boil, but it seems not necessary. *PROOF* Freebasing acetates with only heat (to white crystals *pic*) - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

4/ It seems not necessary to add nacl, water wash in solvent seem sufficient.

5/ You can but remeber all action can lead to substancial loss, if cumulated, can reduced yield. I like to backsalt my solvent, or do a mini ab to not do filtering on solvent.

6/ a chemical expert may explain this step better than me.
From security point, it seems better to use diluted acid than concentrated. Regarding the chemical reaction i can't say for it.

:thumb_up:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Question 1:

Why a cycle of warming/cooling is superior to constant hot temp and why 1 hour, why not more or less?

Answer: it appears this was added in light of experience. Intermittent heating allows the heat to penetrate a pasty material more evenly without overheating the outside. Also, reminding people to turn the heat on and off intermittently reduces the chances of them allowing the heat bath to boil dry.

Question 2:

Instead of heatbath or shower why not use hairdrier or heat gun to warm EVENLY bottle/flask for better separation? (Lets consider we know what we are doing and there is no fire
hazard) would that be better/easier than water bath or shower?

Answer: heat transfers far more effectively and evenly from a liquid bath than an air bath. (Consider how steam is a more effective sterilant than hot air.)

Using a water bath of sufficient size carries another important advantage - should your jar break due to thermal shock, the bath will save you from a terrible, corrosive mess and you will be able to continue with your extraction.

A hot water bath is also quieter than using a hot air gun.

Question 3:

Does someone know if/whats the dmt(acetate) decomposition temperature is while in solution under low pH? (I ask because i want to know at how high temp i can do the acidic boils).

Answer: It's not strictly a decomposition. DMT acetate solution exists as protonated DMT cations, and acetate anions, both solvated by water. At any given time, small amounts of the acetate ions will pick up protons from the water to re-form acetic acid molecules. In principle, small amounts of this acetic acid will distil off during boiling. If you've used a small excess of acetic acid this won't be a problem.

You could do a bunch of calculations based on the pKa/pKb values of the species involved (and several other factors) to estimate the rate at which acetic acid (and DMT) will boil off from a neutral DMT acetate solution. Doing so, accompanied by experimental data to verify the calculations, would be worthy of publication.

Question 4:

What you think about doing a NaCL/water wash after the first Sodium Carb/water wash
(on the non polar pulls)

Answer: what would you hope to achieve by doing so? Using a saturated salt solution would possibly reduce the amount of residual water in the naphtha. I personally wouldn't bother with the sodcarb wash here anyhow. Perhaps it's supposed to remove small particles of basic aqueous solution from the naphtha but this is something that can generally be avoided in the first place by using the correct techniques.

Question 5:

After collecting the pulls is it a good idea to filter the nonpolar/dmt solvent through
lab filter paper or diatomaceous earth or even activated carbon?

Answer: Again, what would you hope to achieve by doing so? All of these methods would potentially reduce your yield. It would only make sense to use them if there was a visible or known reason for doing so. With MHRB extractions, thi is not typically the case.

Question 6:

Why dilute the already diluted acetic acid (vinegar) in water/vinegar solution to acidfy bark/water mix, cant i use a pipette to add drop by drop vinegar or even 100% acetic acid to acidify?

Answer: all you need is a sufficient acidity to provide enough soluble counter-ions for the DMT present. Vinegar is simply a readily available acid for doing so. Using glacial acetic acid is fine if you have it, although arguably there are better uses for it. The main thing is to ensure you dilute your acid in roughly the correct amount of water for the overall concentration of acid to be sufficient, and for the overall volume of acidic bark mixture to be in the right ball-park.

Initially, the bark is soaked then frozen with plain water in order to first re-hydrate the cells and then burst them when the water freezes. This is to improve the yield of DMT by releasing it from inside the plant cells. Using pure water here maximises the hydration rate because the difference in osmotic pressure between the inside outside of the cells is greatest when the water added has no dissolved salts.

Before freezing, the bark is mixed with only sufficient water for this process. This will allow the freezing and thawing to take place more quickly, and the mixture takes up the minimum necessary volume in the freezer. Thus, for the acidification step, an additional volume of diluted vinegar is added.

Question 7:

After freeze percip in freezer and removing solvent from dish is it good idea to put the dish with the percipitated crystals in a vacuum chamber to quickly "suck" and evap the remaining solvent? (Instead of turning dish upside down and letting evap on its own) Just like the last step of making BHO (the purge).

If you have a vacuum chamber of a suitable size you could certainly give it a try. Bear in mind that DMT crystals can dissolve into naphtha remnants as everything returns to room temperature. Many people put their drained crystals back in the freezer with the dish tilted or upside-down so that more of the naphtha remnants can drain off.

 

[Th Entity]

Thank you for replying people!

Answers 1) I ask because i think i might acidify water/bark mix and with a lot of magnetic stirring on constant 70C for 12 hours (to acidify,to lyse cells,to breakdown plant proteins to increase ionic strenght) + i would freeze/thaw and later salinate

Answers 2) I agree with both replys :thumb_up:

Answers 3) Thanks for link and ye DWFZ what you said makes sense (I didnt want to use the word "decomposition" but i couldnt think of other word to replace with (english not native language) and i left it like that :d I remembered about how ayahuasca is made and i was like Ehh i guess i can boil hard if i want to P.S. - i ask because according to Vovin: "Heat will break down the DMT and cause a loss in yield"

Answers 4) Yes i dont see any reason behind NaCL wash beside pulling residual water from NPS but i wanted to be sure so i had to ask. :lol:

Answers 5) I would like to get maximum purity product and because i have vacuum pump, buchner filter/filters and suction flask i thought i could use them, how much you think that would reduce
yield? If i "wet" the filter paper before with minimal of the same NPS used for pulls and use vacuum filtration?

Answears 6) I thought that people diluted their acid only for ease of working with ml solutions than drops (so they dont add too much acid accidentally)

Answear 7) Yes im aware i have an idea how to do it hopefully without any DMT dissolving back in NPS but theory is sometimes different from practice.

Im taking notes! :thumb_up: