Tolerance to Oral DMT?

[Apoc]

HI! I was just wondering if there is any knowledge about built up tolerance to oral dmt? Like, how much do you have to space out oral trips or else the effect will be lessened or build tolerance? Also curious about tolerance in general. I got curious because every so often I read about people who are smoking several times per day, so I'm like, "wtf? I thought you develop tolerance after you do it once and can't do it for a few days". What's with tolerance to dmt? I also read that if you do low doses, you'll build tolerance. Does anyone experience the opposite? If you do low doses, you learn to recognize the dmt state, and thus are able to trip from low doses?

 

[picatris]

There is no tolerance that I know of. Redosing oral DMT (in Ayahuasca) 2 hours later the first intake will get it going even stronger. It is quite possible to perma-trip with DMT. In Santo Daime we do occasionally 9-12 hours sessions, with 4-5 Daime servings. It gets better and better!

 

[soulfood]

For me with smoking DMT I'm good to go in 30-60 minutes. Sometimes if I have too mild a trip I load up and launch less than 5 minutes later AND breakthrough.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

"wtf? I thought you develop tolerance after you do it once and can't do it for a few days"...I also read that if you do low doses, you'll build tolerance.

If I may ask, where are you getting this information? Would you mind sharing the source(s) in which you read these things? Strassman's dose/tolerance study established that there was no meaningful tolerance in subjects that received .4mg/kg injections of dmt fumarate in saline solution every 30 minutes for 2 hours. Combining this study's findings with anecdotal evidence presented by the many people who smoke and ingest dmt, imo, it's pretty safe to extrapolate that dmt creates no tolerance to itself via any method of administration.

 

[Apoc]

Wow, the responses to this thread blow my mind. I always thought dmt, as well as all psychedelics build tolerance, and you have to go a few days without taking them. The common knowledge I thought I had was that once you take dmt, you have tolerance for THREE days. Three days was the magic number. I'm pretty sure I know for certain that there is a tolerance developed for lsd. Perhaps partially I was under the influence that all psychedelics develop tolerance, since they have a similar effect on the brain. This is just what I've been reading here and there for a while... I don't remember any specific links.

About the "low dose causing tolerance" comment, I remember it was from somewhere here http://www.lycaeum.org/leda/docs/11.shtml?ID=11 but unfortunately, I don't remember the specific link, it might have been here http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/GandZ/gandz.dmt.html

I have read a few heresay, non scientific accounts of people who claim that oral dmt builds tolerance very fast. Such as here, http://deoxy.org/dmtpharm.htm
".. I've found oral DMT to not quite be the same as smoked/IV'd DMT. And correct about the VERY quick buildup of tolerance. "

Most of the info I have found on tolerance talks about smoke tolerance (or lack thereof), but I haven't found much on oral tolerance, except a few people claiming that oral tolerance builds fast.

Perma trip eh?

 

[apostle11]

The common knowledge I thought I had was that once you take dmt, you have tolerance for THREE days. Three days was the magic number. I'm pretty sure I know for certain that there is a tolerance developed for lsd. Perhaps partially I was under the influence that all psychedelics develop tolerance, since they have a similar effect on the brain. This is just what I've been reading here and there for a while... I don't remember any specific links.

The whole tolerance thing is something you hear a lot more with people taking shrooms or lsd ect. That is where that 3 days thing comes. I can definitely attest to shroom tolerance. With DMT taken orally though you also have the maoi. I think that has a lot to do with the whole no tolerance thing. Same with smoking changa.

Oral DMT from my little experience seems to be more random in terms of the effects on an individual and and the dose as compared to taking a set amount of shrooms or something.

 

[picatris]

Most of the info I have found on tolerance talks about smoke tolerance (or lack thereof), but I haven't found much on oral tolerance, except a few people claiming that oral tolerance builds fast.

Perma trip eh?

Yup. The Santo Daime information I'm talking from first hand experience. 4-5 doses for 12 hour sessions happen in some workings. I have never gone beyond that, however I believe it would be possible to continue. The last dose taken has to be quite small, because people are totally exhausted and sometimes it is necessary to drive home, so a period of sobriety is absolutely required. If there is tolerance, it is reverse tolerance, as the second and the third doses are the ones that blow most people away! This is nonetheless a complex issue as the MAOIs also come into play and have a setting time and metabolism different from DMT. Whatever it may be at least 12 hours you can have for granted.

Also Santo Daime related, there are occasions when there are workings quite close in time, spaced with one day in the middle. And on the second session I never perceived any quantitative loss in potency due a possible tolerance.

And of course there are Daimistas who have been practicing the Doctrine for 50 years! Never heard from them that they don't feel a thing anymore!

 

[endlessness]

I concur with picatris, indeed in ayahuasca ceremonies or private pharma sessions, there is no tolerance. DMT is very special in this way, as opposed to most other psychedelics, there is really no tolerance created. In these ceremonies indeed as picatris said, it is common that there are 3+ doses being taken and each dose makes you go further and further, no diminishing in effects. Also taking the next day in consecutive rituals show no tolerance, sometimes even a sort of reverse-tolerance where you are more open and sensitive to the dosage.

In my personal experience this is true both for vaporizing (whether its changa or pure DMT), as well as oral usage, whether its dmt, jimjam/jungle, mimosa or psychotria viridis, and whether the MAOI is caapi, rue or purified harmine and/or harmaline. Strassman research also shows the same to be true for IV dmt.

 

[Apoc]

I concur with picatris, indeed in ayahuasca ceremonies or private pharma sessions, there is no tolerance. DMT is very special in this way, as opposed to most other psychedelics, there is really no tolerance created. In these ceremonies indeed as picatris said, it is common that there are 3+ doses being taken and each dose makes you go further and further, no diminishing in effects. Also taking the next day in consecutive rituals show no tolerance, sometimes even a sort of reverse-tolerance where you are more open and sensitive to the dosage.

In my personal experience this is true both for vaporizing (whether its changa or pure DMT), as well as oral usage, whether its dmt, jimjam/jungle, mimosa or psychotria viridis, and whether the MAOI is caapi, rue or purified harmine and/or harmaline. Strassman research also shows the same to be true for IV dmt.

OMG! My mind is blown. This is good to know. Currently, I would probably be too exhausted to go on repeating pharma trips.... but good to know. Maybe when I go on vacation, I'll go on long ass journeys. Might as well spice up my vacation. Get it? Wow, there are some very experienced users out there.