• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

treating a girl who has been taking mdma recreationally for over 8 years.

Migrated topic.
lorax

lorax

Rising Star
hi..

i have a female friend whom i like very much. unfortunately she has been popping pills of all sorts at trance parties(mostly MDMA tho) for the past 8 years, sometimes taking as much as 10 pills a day.

She has a big emotional problem and has a big problem with going out to party without taking drugs. She doesnt like alcohol, which is pretty good in my opinion nor does she smoke weed. She loves LSD, Mushrooms and other tryptamines. She has also tried 15mg of vaporized N,N-DMT, which raised her respect for tryptamines quite a bit.

Before her 15mg low dose she would have jumped right into any trip which was handed to her. It seems to have had some good effects on her because just 3 days afterwards she told me that she wanted to quit smoking cigarettes and not drink any more alcohol at all. Do you think ayahuasca could help her heal her emotional problems? She is quite fragile and her mood shifts rapidly from extremely happy to extremely depressed.

Another problem of hers seems to be that no one has ever really loved her deeply. Just fucked with her. When it comes to that she is quite a nympho. I have never seen a woman so hungry for sex. This might come from her trying to reach the same happiness with sex as the MDMA provided her with.

She has also suffered severe trauma from loosing her best friend who died at the age of 14 or 15. She is extremely afraid of letting herself fall into a relationship as she has been hurt so many times. Her greatest wish is to contact her lost friend through the spirit molecule. I have told her that DMT usually gives people what it thinks they need the most. And that there is no way in controlling what will happen.

My plan would be to first of all let her get a good grip at everyday reality and show her that parties can very well be fun without drugs, if you go to them with the right folks. Another thing which she needs to be shown is what real deep love feels like. When the time is right she will need to drink ayahuasca for restructuring her serotonin network and filling up all those buffers. She also needs a diet which is high in serotonin.

Any ideas? This girl needs to be healed!!

peace
 
I certainly think taking ayahuasca or dmt could help but its not a cure all and try to avoid creating un-realistic expectations. Other then that though I am sure some kind of emotional and psychological benefits are possible and why not give it a try. But yes its important not to use drugs to try to substitute other drug experiences so I think its a good idea to have a little sober time and just think things over for a bit.

she needs a diet that is high in seretonin
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if you eat seretonin it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but eating precursors might help replenish the supply. But maintaining a good healthy balanced and diverse diet is key in any psychological issue, at least I think so.
 
As long as she can stop taking all forms of drugs for 30 days before the Aya' sessions, I think it would be really, really good for her! Give the brian a good ole cleaning.

If the Aya' doesn't work, let me know and we'll move to the next step- Iboga.
 
im sure it would be beneficial..as your earlier tests have shown..even 15mg of vaporized dmt has seemed to help..

SWIM has given dmt to many different people..some of them have been heroin addicts..this one person had been shooting up for something like 2 years..and once they had a few good solid breakthroughs..they stopped..cold turkey..

its been about 3 months now..and they havent touched the stuff...

hes also given it to people that have had some emotional issues dealing with girlfriends and boyfriends..you know..general emotional issues with life..and whatever they see when they smoke dmt..seems to give them a sense of calm about whatever was bothering them..say somebody had some sort of virus..it showed them that their physical body is just a temporary one..and that its not the end of the world to get sick..

somehow it relaxes just about anyone..and other times it causes an emotional crisis to happen..where they start crying and laughing at the same time..and it seems to SWIM that they are playing through some deep seated thoughts that needed to be gone through..its best to have a very comfortable place to do this in..with some other natural medicines available to help calm them down if they become too hysterical

lavender oil has helped somebody while in the middle of a breakthrough...they were clenching their body up..and they kept saying that it was too much..and they couldnt calm down..so SWIM got out his little bottle of lavender oil and held it under their nose and said relax...and as soon as they got a whiff of the stuff..you could see their body relax and fall back into their seat...the person shook SWIM's hand after coming out and looked extremely grateful for the experience..

SWIM has given it to other addicts before..and after they came out..they called it good medicine..and they never come back looking for more..ever..

it really seems to help a lot of people that SWIM has given it to...just be very careful..and make sure you have backup plans to take care of them if something unexpected happens..
 
SWIM has given dmt to many different people..some of them have been heroin addicts..this one person had been shooting up for something like 2 years..and once they had a few good solid breakthroughs..they stopped..cold turkey..

its been about 3 months now..and they havent touched the stuff...
Click to expand...

SWIM has been thinking of trying this with some friends. Trouble is SWIM lives very far from these old friends who are on the verge of death through their needle games. Maybe I can recommend they look into using ayahuasca. I would prefer to guide them but within the next 6 or so months thats just not possible and SWIM is afraid by then they might not be alive, we'll see. Any advice on how to do this properly?

lavender oil has helped somebody while in the middle of a breakthrough...they were clenching their body up..and they kept saying that it was too much..and they couldnt calm down..so SWIM got out his little bottle of lavender oil and held it under their nose and said relax...and as soon as they got a whiff of the stuff..you could see their body relax and fall back into their seat...the person shook SWIM's hand after coming out and looked extremely grateful for the experience..
Click to expand...

Nice tip, SWIM loves lavender.
 
physical exercise is one of the best medicine's. ayahuasca can be, but someone has to be ready. It's speculated that MDMA destroys serotonin receptors. The brain is flexible anough to recover and to grow new receptors. You can encourage this by entrainment; expose her to situations that require serotonergic activity; social situations, humour, fun. Repeatedly doing things she actually enjoys will make her learn to enjoy life more and more. It's the best way to train the 'enjoy' muscle.
 
SWIM thinks the best way to help somebody that has a heroin addiction is to make sure they also want to stop..they have to be very passionate about being done with it..SWIM also let them smoke dmt as many times as they wanted...he felt that the more exposure to the spice they had the better..

always at first..you can see their addictive behavior starting to happen with the spice..but then..the more they use it..they start to become afraid of it..or respectful of it..

SWIM makes sure that there will be privacy for at least a couple of days..but a week or two is better..its also good to do other psychedelics..such as mushrooms..and LSA seems to work well too..and also maoi's...you want to use these in between the spice journeys..it helps them think about what happened to them and also it gives you and them a chance to talk about whats going on in their lives..SWIM would stay away from synthetics such as LSD and MDMA..mescaline would probably also be good..

its kinda a lot to do..but SWIM feels that the more time the person spends in a psychedelically altered state the better...you want these new ideas to have a good hold on their mind before you 'let them go'

so have at least 5 breakthroughs over the course of a week..and during the rest of the time..take other psychedelics and do fun things..talk about interesting ideas..have FUN!! get them away from heroin or whatever they are addicted to..but keep them in a non-addictive altered state..and work on their issues..because if you get them in there enough..it will stick with them for quite some time..and that is the best way to help break their habit..and it keeps them away from the people they usually do and get these bad drugs from..

but it really does take about a week..when SWIM did it..it lasted about 2 weeks..of taking psychedelics..smoking dmt..with maoi's..and not being disturbed..you can then work on new hobbies that enable them to not get bored enough to want to waste their day..

and if that still doesnt work..but they dont want to do heroin anymore..tell them to get a Full Spectrum Kratom Tincture...

its MUCH safer than heroin..and its cheaper than say oxycontin..and you dont want to inject it..but it will stave off the addiction so they can get moving with their lives..it will keep them from getting the detox sickness..but it will also not cure their addiction..so its kind of a last resort..and kratom is legal so they wont end up in jail
 
Smoking DMT completely ridded foaf of any addictive tendencies and cured his depression. He feels much more level now so definitely continue with that onto breakthrough doses. He used to be a binge drinker (as a social prop and to alleviate boredom) but doesn't have any urge whatsoever to drink now... the most he ever has is three or four beers on the biggest of nights out (he takes 5g Peruvian Torch at the same time so he doesn't get bored when surrounded by wasted people). He doesn't have any compulsion to get wasted at all, which he thinks is more to do with DMT giving him the foundations for straightening out like he wanted to, rather than it being any sort of 'vaccine', but who knows.

Yes kratom is probably the best substitute he's come across for when someone still want to have that clubbing feeling (although addictive so be mindful). Someone told foaf that amanita was sociable in light doses but he hasn't tried yet.

For foaf, one particular ayawaska analog session did more harm than good and depressed him for a week. From this very limited experience, foaf decided that this route wasn't for the self-aware or insecure, or the near-suicidal, because it can be a real mental battering... foaf decided that aya was good for people who didn't yet realise their faults yet and needed a wake-up call, but not those who already knew and were depressed by them. While it might work wonders for her, foaf is scared of it now and sticks to the comforting shortness and lack of analysis of DMT. He also finds it energising, inspiring and motivating for days afterwards. He found that cactus was a much gentler and comforting route for self-analysis.

David D. Burn's book 'Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy' uses cognitive behaviour therapy techniques and is really beneficial for depression or negativity. Maybe she should she a psychologist for the dramatic moodswings (a general and scientifically minded one, not a Freudian/Jungian one etc as that stuff seems a bit dodgy)? The two MDMA victims I've known were on prozac and beta-blockers for years afterwards... the guy is now off prozac and fine, but I've lost touch with the girl who was on beta-blockers. I know a lot of people here are against them but if it gets really bad don't rule it out... it can't be worse than ten pills a day, and I'm guessing withdrawing from that kind of continual dosage is going to be incredibly depressing.

I hope it works out for her :)
 
first of all thanks for all those nice ideas!

it turned out that we both fell deeply in love with each other. the first medicine i will use on her is love to the upmost. the next step will be letting her smoke a full breakthrough dose of DMT. After this they will probably have told her what they tell you most of the time: "we don't have much time.. pay attention!". She's scared of drinking ayahuasca because of the purging. She also knows that the purge is part of the mechanism but since she never took anything which made her purge she's afraid. I wouldn't wanna miss out on the purge. Its part of the medicine. I think as a medicine ayahuasca is better than smoked dmt because it gives you more time to work things through. its good to have smoked a breakthrough dose before taking aya tho i think. it lets one get accustomed with that type of experience.

a very good thing has also come out of her having smoked that 15mg dose: a few weeks ago she was all about wanting to take some more acid. at some point this week she had gotten her hands on some. so i asked her when she wants to use it. she told me she wants to save it for a special occasion. before the 15mg session she would have taken it right away with no thoughts at all.

it seems to also have upped her respect for all other psychedelics. she also had a recent 15mg 2ci experience in which she experienced really bad paranoia. it kinda showed her some of the dark places that the mind can take you. i think the more one knows what the mind is capable of, the more one respects psychedelics. she also said that 2ci is something which she would only take VERY rarely if at all. so i guess that even this experience was very beneficial.
 
Its fucking nuts and she sounds to me like a worst nightmare. I don't want to disrespect her, Lorax or any one else who posted on this thread but I allways assumed emotional and pyschological stability was a prerequisite before any such undertakings. If she gets paranoid on the stuff thats suposed to make you feel at one with the universe where do you think shes going to be on the witches brew?
 
Shes gotta get over that... Just dose her up with Aya', I'm telling ya!

Just make sure shes off drugs for 30 days FIRST!
 
How can you say that? You have no idea who this girl is. You have never met her. You have been told she has a few problems, of which you have no ability to determin the severity and you shout "Go for it load her up". I expect Lorax will be patient and gentle and do what he thinks best and load her up. I also think its posible she may enjoy and thank him for it. But I really don't think we have any way of telling whats right for her from this perspective and there are plenty of indications to sugest caution.
 
Wise words magic clown, I would agree with you.

I presume most of the Westerners who use aya do not do it to cure themselves from any illness (physical or psychological).

Aya can be a really strong medicine. Possibly too strong to be taken without a word of caution. It's not like suggesting chamomile tea or oranges to someone who has the cold.

Aya can make things worse, so please proceed with loads of caution. As an example, I would never personally try to cure any psychological disorder of any of my friends with, say lsd just as psychiatrists were trying to demonstrate on the 60's and 70's. I would leave it to people experienced with such fiddly situations.

I never woke up and thought myself as a healer. Who claims himself/herself to be a healer around here? This would be the best person to ask.
 
UPDATE:

The aya treatment especially in this case should be seen as an acute treatment, which is sort of like the opposite of a conservative treatment. Acute treatments tend to be more evasive, more error-prone and possibly more effective under the hands of specialists.

A typical acute treatment in medicine is surgery. Prior to going under the scalpel, a conservative treatment is often advised by the doctors. For instance, if the tonsils are under inflammation the doctor will advise some conservative treatment, like anti-inflammatories or antimicrobials. Should the things do not get better surgery is used to remove the tonsils.

Equally, if a friend of mine was obese I would recommend him a conservative treatment, like do some diet. I would not personally perform liposuction on him! If I were to suggest him liposuction I would forward him to a specialist.

Same with this girl; she's got her serotonin receptors burned out, so let her take a rest. Giving her a treatment that especially involves serotonin agonists as well as MAOIs (like aya) might not be the best of the ideas especially if the prospective healer is amature.

I had been tempted to "cure" a schizo friend of mine with mushrooms in the past, well after some thought I dispelled the idea. He was already a liability, I wouldn't want to do the things worse.
 
Coatl, I really hope we can avoid a flamming contest here but you need to understand, I was doing hardcore tryptamines before you were even born. Whatever experiance you have had or think you've had, I have a good twenty years worth more than you. You might not think it but that counts for quite a lot. I have always been an active user because I really like them, they work for me and I get the immpression you think they work for you too. But get this clear in your mind Coatl, THEY DO NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE. I have over the years seen some very nice people get damaged beyond repair through recklessly jumping on the next new thing to come their way. It might be fun for you and I assure you it is very much a fun inspired thing for me but we are not talking about jelly beans here. To glibly recommend Ibogain if the witches brew dosn't work demonstrates beyond all doubt that your understanding of these things is immature and lacking any sense of respect.

I like your enthusiasm for these type of things Coatl and I too, share that enthusiasm. Its why we are both here. But it has to be tempered. If you run through your youth in the real world the way you do in the cyber world, one day you might accidentaly damage someone badly. The fingers will be pointed at you and you will be cursed.

Please think hard before choosing to respond to my post and then think hard about what you want to say. Remember I am your friend.
 
running is one of the best medicine's against depressive dissorders. And its's completely safe.
It helps releasing natural anti-depressants, nerve growth factor and helps to build physical and mental stamina.
 
2ci also makes me paranoid at 15mg. there are loads of tripreports from 2ci users who all report some kind of paranoia. some manage to deal with it easily for others it kind of directs the trip into the dark places of the mind.

also she is not a nightmare. she is a very kind, loving person. but in the time where she would normally have experienced puberty she already experimented with her feelings. i think this was her reaction to not dealing with her best friend dying. i want to help her deal with it. as hard as it might get for me.. i don't care. i have enough energy to go through it with her. and to become an advanced psychotherapist/shaman i must choose the hard way over the easy one. the hard way teaches most!

i have also understood that i need to keep a little buffer of air between us because otherwise i might loose my ability to look at things objectively. this is very important for such work. when she gets a grip of her own baseline reality and baseline self she will be ready for ayahuasca to do its teachings on her. it might take a year or two for the grip to take hold. she has already taken the first step to quit every kind of drug including alcohol and smoking. the most important thing is that she has noticed what her problem is and where it comes from. i will feed her with ideas, books, love, passion, joy of being here and now and doing things which are fun in this frequency of reality. treating her like a woman should help make her sense of self value grow. there are many ways of showing people who they are and what they want without taking drugs. ayahuasca is the last healing step when all the other things are set up and ready. its a long road but we will both learn a great deal from taking this route.

i have asked the ancestors for their blessings in my path and they filled me with love which to me means i have their blessing.
 
yeah.. and i also think coatl should try to be less manic about recommending stuff like: just dose her up with aya and she'll be fine..

ayahuasca is strong. it can heal. but like all strong things it can also damage if not used correctly. i choose to see ayahuasca as the last retreat after everything else has failed. or rather i'd like to think of preparing her for it. as long as it might take. even i myself altho i have a very good understanding of things like these am very cautious of using them on fragile people.

she needs to not take anything at all for a while. just imagine if you started jumping into all these experiences before your own self even started to develop. there is MUCH to learn for her in terms of interpersonal relationship and in terms of self definition. she knows she is not ready. she knew the instance when she inhaled the 15mg.. it told her that she was not ready yet.

she will be confronted with another 15mg here and there just as a reminder. also it broke many habits instantly. it was good. the 15mg told her she wasnt ready and gave her upmost respect and the 2ci experience she had the bad paranoia on showed her that all these things are to be handled with caution - even phenethylamines which she had loved so badly in the past. she has now already out of her partying habit for a year now.

i need to get her away from her old "trainspotting friends" - those are people.. if you were to look up "false friends" in a dictionary these would be the people to pop up. she has already stopped seeing a lot of them because she has noticed that you can't even have a normal conversation with them. they're always dosed up on special k and shit like that. sometimes when she calls somebody its like talking to an infant. they can only manage to make sounds.. not words. evil folks! man oh man.. i can't believe the people i've seen. they've got stupid imprinted in their faces!
 
[quote='Coatl]
If the Aya' doesn't work, let me know and we'll move to the next step- Iboga.
[/quote]

This kind of thinking bothers me a bit. Treating Ayahuasca like it is a quick fix and then tossing it aside for the next thing is extremely disrespectful of this type of medicine.

Also, Iboga is not something to use lightly. 3 days of living in a syrup world without guidance can be very traumatic. Iboga also is not all that safe physically. I personally wouldn't touch it without a highly experienced person there to facilitate the experience.

None of these etheogens are a panacea. One must really work WITH these plants to reap solid, long lasting benefits. It's a give and take relationship one must build over time.

That being said, Aya might be beneficial to someone who has an addictive personality. I know that it has helped me. Drugs in general hold less sway over me now than they ever have in the past. I attribute this to Ayahuasca. It changes the way one thinks about life.

I presume most of the Westerners who use aya do not do it to cure themselves from any illness (physical or psychological).
Click to expand...

It depends which subculture you are looking at. I'm sure some kids try it once just as another high, but I doubt many do it twice. Spiritual exploration is probably the most common use for westerners, but some do use it for psycological issues.
 
Back
Top Bottom