Two repeated failures using Noman's tek, "DMT for the Masses." Advice?

[YetzirahToAhssiah]

Hello all, this is my first post and my reason for creating my account, though I expect I'll be using it for much more than this question =]

I have performed two extractions to date using Noman's tek: Erowid Mimosa (Jurema) Vault : DMT for the Masses

Both times, I had a significant weight (or so it seemed) of crystals prior to the wash. I don't remember what chemical I used to wash it the first time, but this time (the past few days) I used sodium carbonate. I purchased it in the form of pH increaser (water and sodium carbonate) and was of a light red hue. I wasn't sure what the molarity of the solution was, so I mixed about 10 mL of the solution with 40 mL of distilled water.

I poured naptha into my seperatory funnel, and poured the crystals in, and spun the funnel until most of the crystals were dissolved. I then poured the sodium carbonate solution into the seperatory funnel. I mixed the solution together for about a minute or two, in a similar fashion to how one mixes the naptha with root bark solution. I then allowed the naptha to seperate, drained out the sodium carbonate solution, and drained the naptha into a collection jar, which I put into the freezer. It stayed there for about 15+ hours, I'd say. I poured the naptha through a coffee filter, and there was a bunch of ice at the bottom (I was so excited, I thought it was DMT!) It melted. I put the few crystals I had on a scale, which reads to the miligram. It didn't even register, so if my scale read correctly, I have less than a miligram of DMT (I used 50 grams of root bark).

This is quite frustrating, I was so excited. Is it possible that the root bark I purchased has extremely low DMT content? I purchased it through ktbotanicals.com. Could an excess of sodium bicarbonate have pulled the DMT out of the naptha?

I would appreciate whatever help or advice you are willing to give. Also, when I signed up a few minutes ago, I clicked on the "street prices" thread. Street Value of DMT (AND WHY YOU SHOULDN'T EVER SELL DMT) - Open Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

What I'm most interested in in this thread is the third response by ohayoco, a portion of which reads, "And you can extract it yourself for practically $0 a hit so why buy it?" I myself spent about $120 on the root bark and over $100 on other chemicals and equipment. Either I'm an idiot, or this tek isn't the easiest, least expensive way to extract DMT. Any good alternatives you might suggest?

 

[Oneiroi]

I actually am doing my first extraction right now and I'm in the EXACT same predicament. I went through KT botanicals and am using Noman tek with low yield (less than .1g from 50g MHRB). I seriously could have written the above post myself haha.

When you say you have a significant weight of crystals before the sodium carbonate wash but after the wash and freeze you had less than .1g , does that mean you lost a great weight through the wash process? If so, you might have added too much sodium carbonate to your wash solution, making it basic. From my experience, I've seen that only a tiny pinch of sodium carbonate in a small amount of water is necessary to clean the naptha solution. Like a pea sized amount diluted 1:5, then using 10ml of the diluted solution per 50ml naptha). You are using sodium carbonate and not sodium bicarbonate right? Also, I've been doing the sodium carbonate wash directly after doing the naptha pulls without waiting for the crystals to form. This cleans out the sludge before they crystallize and the crystals I'm getting are looking clean and white. I don't see why you would want the crystals to form and then redissolve them and wash them, seems like a waste of time and possibly would result in a small loss of DMT through the process.

I've also heard that using coffee filters is not a good idea, since crystals can get stuck in the filters when you pour them and then get redissolved into the filters as the naptha in the filters heats to room temp. You may have some DMT trapped in the filters. What I've found effective is freezing my naptha in shot glasses, and when ready to remove the naptha, you pour out the naptha into a separate jar, then flip the shot glass over onto a plate so the remaining naptha drains away from the crystals by gravity. Let this sit for a few minutes, then place it under a fan or air dry for a few hours, and then you should be able to scrape out your crystals.

Also, how many naptha pulls are you performing for each extraction? Are you doing naptha pulls until no more crystals come out? I am on my 5th pull for my first extraction and crystals are still coming.

 

[YetzirahToAhssiah]

I definitely had more crystals before the wash. I agree that I may have had too much sodium carbonate (not bicarbonate), I'm unsure of how much of it was in the prebottled solution I procured. I mixed 10 mL of this solution with about 40 mL of water, then mixed that with about 100 mL of naptha with the crystals dissolved in it.

I did four naptha pulls, as the tek dictates. The fourth pull didn't have as much DMT in it.

I'm frustrated. I just want to enter hyperspace =[

 

[islandhome]

first of sorry for spelling

get your firt batch o crystles dry
i poor off extra naptha till thers all most none and put a fan to evap extra napth
this first batch is colored yellow light to dark
then scrap dryed dmt
up put in new warm naptha and freez again
new crystles will be white mabey a hint o yellow but at least 90percent
will be clean
the oils ect will be in the first batch o naptha
and any left over will be left in the liquid the second time
i dont (wash )

hope that helps

i get more than half gram dmt from 50 o mim

i will be mor detaled if need be

 

[Coastal_Shaman]

A friend of swim's thinks you may have done the wash for too long. Swim was under the impression that the wash should be done quickly so as to not ionize the dmt into the wash water. It is very possible that your spice is in your wash water and if that is the case and you still have the wash water you will have to take steps to retrieve it from the wash water. Swim has never had this happen and so does not know the proper steps involved but this could be your problem. Swims friend did his wash by shaking for 5 seconds then decanting the solvent off the top of the wash water very quickly and repeating the steps 3 or 4 times. Maybe somebody else can chime in here, as swim is not familiar with Nomans tek..

It's possible that your wash does not have a high enough ph. I believe higher than 9 or 10 ph is optimal.

 

[Oneiroi]

^ Wait I thought having a low pH in your wash solution (not enough sodium carbonate) was fine, but that having too high of a pH (too much sodium carbonate) could allow your DMT to travel into the wash solution (since DMT can be extracted in a basic, high pH solution). Please correct me if I'm wrong. I've been erring on using a lower amount of sodium carbonate as opposed to using a larger amount due to this reason.

 

[Coastal_Shaman]

^ Wait I thought having a low pH in your wash solution (not enough sodium carbonate) was fine, but that having too high of a pH (too much sodium carbonate) could allow your DMT to travel into the wash solution (since DMT can be extracted in a basic, high pH solution). Please correct me if I'm wrong. I've been erring on using a lower amount of sodium carbonate as opposed to using a larger amount due to this reason.

Nope..

 

[tele]

If you can't get it to work I can suggest looking at q21q21's tek.

 

[SpartanII]

I also got my bark from that vendor and did Noman's tek but I didn't see why a wash was necessary as I was careful not to get any base solution into the final product. I got good results (a little over a half gram from 50g RB).

I'm sorry I can't be of help and that it wasn't working for you, but I doubt the problem is with the vendor or the tek.

 

[YetzirahToAhssiah]

Coastal Shaman: Thank you very much, your detail is very helpful.
Spartan II: Your information is in fact very helpful, I am now confident both the process and the materials I'm using are sound.

 

[Noman]

^ Wait I thought having a low pH in your wash solution (not enough sodium carbonate) was fine, but that having too high of a pH (too much sodium carbonate) could allow your DMT to travel into the wash solution (since DMT can be extracted in a basic, high pH solution). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.
DMT freebase is insoluble in water, so having a wash with a high pH keeps the freebase as freebase and thus in the NP.
DMT salts are water soluble, and a low pH wash converts the freebase to a salt and removes it from the NP.

As for the OP, it seems obvious that your alks are getting lost in the wash.
Why, I don't know, but I'll guess that the pH isn't high enough.

 

[Oneiroi]

Awesome, a post from the man himself. Thank you for clearing this up. Luckily I saved my sodium carbonate washes, so I'll try extracting from them using some of my recycled naptha. Is there any problem with having too high a pH for your wash besides wasting sodium carbonate?

Also, another related question. In a tek I read, it suggested that after doing the first sodium carbonate wash, I should wash again with plain water. However, doesn't this contradict the idea of keeping the pH of the wash solution high to prevent migration of DMT? Should I skip the second wash with water if I am careful not to pull up any of the sodium carbonate wash along with my naptha?

 

[Coastal_Shaman]

^ Wait I thought having a low pH in your wash solution (not enough sodium carbonate) was fine, but that having too high of a pH (too much sodium carbonate) could allow your DMT to travel into the wash solution (since DMT can be extracted in a basic, high pH solution). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.
DMT freebase is insoluble in water, so having a wash with a high pH keeps the freebase as freebase and thus in the NP.
DMT salts are water soluble, and a low pH wash converts the freebase to a salt and removes it from the NP.

As for the OP, it seems obvious that your alks are getting lost in the wash.
Why, I don't know, but I'll guess that the pH isn't high enough.

That's what I thought too and hence why I posted that in one of my earlier posts here to help out.. That's what I get for second guessing myself. Sorry if I confused you OP turns out I had the info right in the first place. Thanks for stepping in and clearing that up Noman.

 

[Noman]

Is there any problem with having too high a pH for your wash besides wasting sodium carbonate?

Also, another related question. In a tek I read, it suggested that after doing the first sodium carbonate wash, I should wash again with plain water. However, doesn't this contradict the idea of keeping the pH of the wash solution high to prevent migration of DMT? Should I skip the second wash with water if I am careful not to pull up any of the sodium carbonate wash along with my naptha?

Not that I'm aware of.

Testing has shown me that there is a significant loss of alkaloids if the NP is washed with a solution under pH10.
You should not have ANY visible aqueous solution in your naptha after you separate the two. Washes are for catching minute particles trapped in the NP, not for making up for improper separation.

 

[Oneiroi]

Alright thanks a lot. I used some fresh naptha and mixed it around with the sodium carbonate wash, producing a very pink naptha solution. Hopefully this is a good sign.

So would you suggest I skip the plain water wash after the sodium carbonate wash, due to the pH problem?

 

[Mark]

Wanted to thank you all for this thread... I had/have several stumbling blocks on my road to successful extraction but you've answered all of my queries without me having to post a question! Lesson 1 for me... search first ask later!