downwardsfromzero said:
deacetylation->reductive methylation (via pictet-spengler conditions (heat and H+))
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Vaporization of Melatonin (N-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine)
- Thread starter Gone-and-Back
- Start date
deacetylation->reductive methylation (via pictet-spengler conditions (heat and H+))
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
There has recently been discussion in the "entheogenic effects of NMT" thread of how 5-O substituted tryptamines are prone to oxidative cyclisation at the 4-position of the indole ring. This seems pertinent here as melatonin is a 5-oxygenated tryptamine. It could go that way via a Pictet-Spengler incorporating the acetyl group to form an azepino[5,4,3-cd]indole, or oxidatively at the sidechain nitrogen to form a pyrido[4,3,2-cd]indole, although to me the latter seems a bit less likely and requires basic conditions.
If the purported psychoactivity of O-methyl nordehydrobufotenine is anything to go by, the analogue corresponding to melatonin may show some kind of activity. But surely somebody must have looked into that by now?
I'm just imagining an acetyl group instead of that methyl group on the pyrido nitrogen:
If the purported psychoactivity of O-methyl nordehydrobufotenine is anything to go by, the analogue corresponding to melatonin may show some kind of activity. But surely somebody must have looked into that by now?
I'm just imagining an acetyl group instead of that methyl group on the pyrido nitrogen:
sleepermustawaken
Rising Star
Wow, this thread was hard to find! I am going to try the acetone extract... I thought I was going to have to freebase but luckily I found this thread. Thanks
arcologist
Rising Star
(many months later)
I tried vaporizing some melatonin recently at 200 C in the Extreme Q. First dose was ~10mg. This produced very mild psychedelic effects (wavey vision) and a strong drowsiness, as if I was very tired. Slept well with very vivid dreams, woke up the next day feeling pretty sleepy, probably due to the high dose (10x normal).
Tastes vaguely like plastic, but not a gross taste like DMT, it's pleasant to vaporize. It's probably much more efficient to administer this way, especially before bedtime, since it starts working immediately.
Not sure if it's worth pushing the dose any higher. Maybe the psychedelic effects would be more pronounced?
I tried vaporizing some melatonin recently at 200 C in the Extreme Q. First dose was ~10mg. This produced very mild psychedelic effects (wavey vision) and a strong drowsiness, as if I was very tired. Slept well with very vivid dreams, woke up the next day feeling pretty sleepy, probably due to the high dose (10x normal).
Tastes vaguely like plastic, but not a gross taste like DMT, it's pleasant to vaporize. It's probably much more efficient to administer this way, especially before bedtime, since it starts working immediately.
Not sure if it's worth pushing the dose any higher. Maybe the psychedelic effects would be more pronounced?
Strigiform
Rising Star
I'm glad I was able to find this thread; the extraction/purification process seems simple enough. Maybe I'll give it a try one day.
arcologist: have you done any more investigation?
arcologist: have you done any more investigation?
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
I have about 3.6mg melatonin sublingual along with a fat pinch of whole Syrian rue seeds, also sublingual, most nights before sleeping. Is this a good idea? Well, it doesn't appear to be acutely toxic… I'm not in a position to recommend it but I do get trippy effects on waking up. It's not possible for me to guarantee that this would be a positive lifestyle addition for someone with a regular normal job, nor that it will turn you into a hermit (as I seem to have become lately).ChrisMMcD said:
I'll weigh a 'fat pinch' of rue just to give a better picture of what that is, since my fingers are fairly dainty.
It might be a good idea if you were to learn how chemistry actually works before you proceed with any further experimentation.I've seen people on the forum turn CBD into THC using clinoptilolite zeolite. I would like to see what happens if zeolite is mixed with 5-HTP and melatonin. Will there be some other tryptamine or not.
Regarding this thread: has anyone tried smoking 5-HTP?
The CBD to THC conversion happens because the two molecules have very similar structures and the same stoichiometric formula. The acidic zeolite catalyses a ring closure between a phenolic oxygen and an alkene double bond within the molecule itself.
The idea with melatonin isn't completely without merit - heating a solution of melatonin in ethanol or maybe a higher alcohol like isobutanol (simply as a solvent with a higher boiling point) with the clinoptilolite catalyst might promote a Pictet-Spengler type cyclisation to form the β-carboline, pinoline, which is a structural isomer of THH and occurs naturally in the human brain, where it is formed endogenously via cyclisation of melatonin (but with an enzymatic catalyst at physiological temperatures rather than clinoptilolite at oven temperatures).
There's always a fair chance of ending up with a tarry mess with indole chemistry, and I'd say that's the far more likely outcome of working in an unguided fashion with 5-HTP, clinoptilolite and heat. There might be some decarboxylation to serotonin, followed maybe by Pictet-Spengler cyclisation with unreacted 5-HTP to form some kind of cursed, 1-indole-substituted harmol analogue, but the bare hydroxy groups are sensitive to oxidation, the result of which is likely to be melanin rather than anything of greater interest. If it doesn't smell too strongly of faeces you might be able to use it as a sunscreen
Also, regarding 5-HTP, it's an amino acid and not suited to smoking/thermal vaporisation. I recall posting very recently about inclusion of 5-HTP in e-juice for atomisation somewhere or other round here. Maybe. Principally, it's an untested idea with unknown risks so I'm not suggesting that anyone should even consider trying it, let alone this being any kind of a recommendation. Do so at your own peril, if you must.I've seen people on the forum turn CBD into THC using clinoptilolite zeolite. I would like to see what happens if zeolite is mixed with 5-HTP and melatonin. Will there be some other tryptamine or not
Regarding this thread: has anyone tried smoking 5-HTP?
From the other 5-HTP thread ^
