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Vaporization of the harmala alkaloids

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Explorateur

Explorateur

Rising Star
I did some attempts to vaporize freebase caapi alkaloids with my GVG, but it seems not really efficient.

When I vaporize freebase DMT I can really see the DMT melting and then the white vapor coming to my mouth. But with harmala alkaloids this isn't the case, even after profoundly inhaling as much as I can, I can still see the white powder on the screens (well a Volcano liquid pad precisely).

Is there a special way to vaporize freebase harmala ? I read on the forum this alkaloids need more heat to get vaporized, but I use a torch lighter (Arc turboflam), so I can't see what the trouble.
 
I frequently vape harmalas with my GVG, it is a great method of ingestion IMO. Maybe you should try some scrubber as the liquid pad looks very dense.
 
Hyperdimensional Cuttlefish said:
I vape it in my GVG too. I never see it melting but it does create a light smoke/vapor.
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How is your final product ? still a white powder?

endlessness said:
One source says harmine's boiling point is 421.4°C. So it must take some heat, significantly, moreso than with dmt, to vaporize it. I havent tried vapping just harmalas by themselves in the GVG though.
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If I understood correctly when vaporizing a substance, what is matter is to reach at least the melting point and then generating a air flow to start the evaporation : vaporization of a liquid that occurs only on the surface of a liquid.

So I guess we don't need to reach the boiling to start the vaporisation, but we need to be at least somewhere between the melting point and the boiling point.
According to the source cited, if we heat more than 264°C and we inhale the evaporation will start, until there is no more substance.

nen888 said:
..vaporizing harmalas usually requires putting the flame directly to the material (which you don't want to do to DMT)
when vaped they are usually more potent but shorter acting (45mins-1hr) than when orally ingested..
.
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In that case I don't understand how people manage to correctly vape changa via a GVG.
 
endlessness said:
One source says harmine's boiling point is 421.4°C. So it must take some heat, significantly, moreso than with dmt, to vaporize it. I havent tried vapping just harmalas by themselves in the GVG though.
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Sure, but lets also look at:
boiling point
harmaline: 120-140°c

THH: 187-190°c
​

(awaits scientific beatdown from endless 😉 )

Vaping Harmalas certainly works, whether something is left behind at the end remains to be seen, but my scrubber always ends up nice and clean after vaping a load of harmalas.
 
The information for THH, that you mentioned Purges, belongs to the melting point not the boiling point.
 
What is the source of this information, though, purges?

TIHKAL says harmaline has bp 120–140 at 0.001 mm/Hg, but thats very low pressure, like some vacuum, not normal atmospheric pressure (760mm/hg), which would certainly mean the bp is higher.

And the THH one is the melting point, according to TIHKAL, as explorateur said.
 
endlessness said:
One source says harmine's boiling point is 421.4°C. So it must take some heat, significantly, moreso than with dmt, to vaporize it. I havent tried vapping just harmalas by themselves in the GVG though.
Click to expand...
A substance doesn’t have to reach its boiling point to vaporize. As examples: Ice on a cold, dry winter day will evaporate; hot water will vigorously steam well below its boiling point; acetone and ether will quickly evaporate without boiling, etc.

My guess is that when vaporizing both DMT and harmalas, the vaporization is taking place well below the respective boiling points.
 
Explorateur said:
If I understood correctly when vaporizing a substance, what is matter is to reach at least the melting point and then generating a air flow to start the evaporation : vaporization of a liquid that occurs only on the surface of a liquid.

So I guess we don't need to reach the boiling to start the vaporisation, but we need to be at least somewhere between the melting point and the boiling point.
According to the source cited, if we heat more than 264°C and we inhale the evaporation will start, until there is no more substance.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right, just like there is some vapor coming out of hot water that is under the boiling point, so must harmalas also vaporize at least to some extent below the bp... But the question is, how much of it, and how fast?

The example of water might not be necessarily the best because water usually needs a lot of energy to change physical state, but in any case what I mean is that if you are just above the melting point, maybe there is only a small amount of harmalas actually vaporizing, not significant enough, so you might have to reach closer to or even you might have to really get to the boiling point to be really effective (as in, inhaling your dose in a hit or two or three and not in twenty).

And you, the OP, said the harmalas not even melt in the GVG! So either it did not reach even the melting point, or your harmalas contain a lot of sodium carbonate or some other impurity that doesnt vap, or... I dont know what other possibility. But yeah I would still think the harmalas must need more heat than DMT to vaporize. Try a bit more heat and see if it works better for you.
 
Explorateur said:
Hyperdimensional Cuttlefish said:
I vape it in my GVG too. I never see it melting but it does create a light smoke/vapor.
Click to expand...
How is your final product ? still a white powder?

I did a freebase extraction of Rue via Gibran2's awesome tek. It is a light tan powder.

It does vaporize with lotsa heat in a GVG, but direct flame on a bed of ash makes it go POOF. Better hold it in yer mouf for a bit before inhaling or it will choke ya if you do the direct flame route.

I like the vaporizer better, even if it takes larger, longer tokes. Plus, I use the same pad that has spice residue on it and that's always nice to get a little tinge of the goodness in the mix.
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I did a test with a bulb vaporizer, to see the process going on, and I saw the off white powder melting and vaporizing, and I definitively felt the harmala feeling.
But it leaves a black residue at the end, so my products shouldn't be pure (I did the Gibran2's Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide)

So I need to continue my test with the GVG...

I noticed there is another thread on this topic ( Vaporizing Harmala Alkaloids - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus ), so if a moderator read this message, it could be nice to merge them.
 
Explorateur said:
I did a test with a bulb vaporizer, to see the process going on, and I saw the off white powder melting and vaporizing, and I definitively felt the harmala feeling.
But it leaves a black residue at the end, so my products shouldn't be pure (I did the Gibran2's Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide)

So I need to continue my test with the GVG...

I noticed there is another thread on this topic ( Vaporizing Harmala Alkaloids - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus ), so if a moderator read this message, it could be nice to merge them.
Click to expand...
It’s not necessarily a purity issue. It’s quite possible that you pryrolized or “toasted” your alkaloids.
 
Explorateur wrote:..."I did a test with a bulb vaporizer, to see the process going on, and I saw the off white powder melting and vaporizing, and I definitively felt the harmala feeling.
But it leaves a black residue at the end, so my products shouldn't be pure (I did the Gibran2's Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide)

So I need to continue my test with the GVG"...

- How much you vaporized (mg) to get the feeling harmala?
- I always have remain black or varnished film - a remainder after evaporation harmalas in various vaporizers. I also consider that this derives from uncleanlinesses and (possible) harmala-red.

gibran2 wrote:..."It’s not necessarily a purity issue. It’s quite possible that you pryrolized or “toasted” your alkaloids."

- Anyone haven't a black residue or dirty film after vaporizing harmalas?
 
Lost travellier said:
- How much you vaporized (mg) to get the feeling harmala?
- I always have remain black or varnished film - a remainder after evaporation harmalas in various vaporizers. I also consider that this derives from uncleanlinesses and (possible) harmala-red.

gibran2 wrote:..."It’s not necessarily a purity issue. It’s quite possible that you pryrolized or “toasted” your alkaloids."

- Anyone haven't a black residue or dirty film after vaporizing harmalas?
Click to expand...


I have been using my GVG with copper scrubber disc to vaporize harmalas for several sessions, and noticed that I had more spice "fall through".

I cleaned the device and screen with acetone and noted quite a bit of black film/flakes had accumulated on the pad, interfering with the efficiency of the unit.

From now on, I will just use a regular pipe and keep the GVG for pure spice only.

BTW, I have had better luck smoking harmalas in a DMT-less "changa". I use some nice pipe tobacco, add dry harmala powder and shake in tin until coated well, add a few drops of water or bourbon, shake again and viola.

I suppose any herb would work, for those who avoid nicotine.
 
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