Very intense twitching and muscle spasms on DMT!

[ANDEI]

I've vaped DMT a few times now and I'm facing a problem of serious concern.

The muscle spasms and full body twitching that I experience during my trips are so intense that I almost always get afraid of dying and cling unto life itself. That's why I'm afraid of taking a breakthrough dose.

Fortunately, the shaking ends when the trip wears off.

Almost always, I start shivering before taking DMT and that's because I get really nervous about it.

As a matter of fact, I get this kind of twitching from cannabis too, along with intense paranoia and delusions EVERY SINGLE TIME I smoke (that's why I no longer smoke it).


I always laid down on my bed immediately after vaping, next time I'll try staying in the lotus position as it might influence the chi energy discharge through my body, I guess. (Read about it somewhere and it makes some kind of sense, yet it definetely isn't the single factor).

I HAVE THE FOLLOWING QUESTION:

Is there any risk to actually overdose and die, have a heart attack or anything like that?

I ask this because my body gives me signals that this is what's going to happen if I keep trying to push the limit.

Will I eventually breakthrough instead of dying?

What's the risk of these very intense tremors and muscle spasms? I feel the need to repeat, they are INTENSE and uncontrollable. They come and go every few seconds. :shock:

Thank you!

Peace and love YUPII!

 

[Sabnock1990]

Everything is fine. DMT is just intense, it may feel like you're going to die but you're not. I get the muscle spams/twitching to, i welcome it and let it do it's thing. Remember, accept the psychological death/dying, don't fight/resist it, allow yourself to die (you will come back). Also DMT is far better than Cannabis, Cannabis gives me paranoia and anxiety and makes me really self-conscious and sensitive to external stimuli like sound/noises, i still smoke Cannabis but i'm afraid my time with it is almost up as well, which i use it medicinally but it does have some downsides that interferes with my ability to function well.

 

[ANDEI]

This is comforting and hopefully true.

I also shouldn't be concerned by the tachycardia, I assume?

As a matter of fact, I'm writing this reply while shivering a little.

That's how strong was the impact of DMT on my mind as far as I can see.

Nonetheless, thank you for your reply. I'm open to hear any more opinions yey!

 

[Sabnock1990]

For the tachycardia, i'd say just be cautious but don't put much thought into it, just accept it, if you're worried at all i'd recommend one of those wrist blood pressure/heart rate checker things so you can reassure yourself that your heart rate and blood pressure is fine, if you can manage to check it while trying to blast off because vaped DMT can be a bit quick, therefore it could perhaps be useful to have some sort of sitter to check it for you, though ime with vaped DMT (in the form of Changa) the come up intensity is pretty brief, within a couple minutes i think, so the panicky part shouldn't last too long. If you try out Changa (adding Caapi leaf/Harmalas/Rue to the DMT) it may provide you an easier transition compared to pure DMT. You may also perhaps try getting ahold of some relaxative herb like Lemon Balm for example and try 2 to 4 grams of the dried Lemon Balm leaf in a tea about say 30 minutes to an hour before vaping the DMT or Changa, and it can help smooth out the intense come up and relax things a bit, which i usually use the Lemon Balm for oral DMT because oral DMT is more of my thing but it should also work for vaped DMT, i'd imagine.

The only time i kinda freaked out and sought outside reassurance, was my first time trying out Moclobemide with Mimosa. I had taken 150mgs of Moclobemide earlier in the day to test the Moclobemide out and see how it felt, then later at night took another 150mgs, followed 30 minutes later by 3 capsules of Mimosa inner root powder (about 2.5 grams) and the come up was pretty intense bodyload/sensation-wise, and it was still in my early days of experimentation plus the Moclobemide doesn't have the Harmalas' grounding effects and body relaxation so the DMT/Mimosa hit me full blast for a low dose so i threw up a time or two, then i went to ask my mom for reassurance (my mom used to be a nurse) and she checked my blood pressure and heart rate and she said my heart rate was slightly elevated but it wasn't as bad as i had perceived it to be, that Adrenergic bodyload of the DMT can be pretty intense and make you think something is going wrong but chances are you're fine.

But yeah usually if you can reassure yourself that things are fine, it's easier to relax and surrender/let go. As for the shivering, both Harmalas/Rue and DMT seem to make me cold and shiver, i just dress extra warm and maybe get under a blanket, or adjust the room temperature. One thing i've been wondering about though is maybe consuming some sort of warming herb or spice or something to warm up the body, maybe that'd counteract the shivering and coldness.

 

[ANDEI]

Thank you very much for your answer!

This is all I needed to hear!

You definetely comforted me and I'm grateful for the time you invested and for your words.

 

[Jees]

Hi Andei,

I had a friend who had serious spasms/shaking and twitches and trembling when working with ayahuasca. As he kept working with the medicine over time these effects went away, he can now do an aya session without all that.
I can't know for sure if your case and my friends is the same, just sharing this story.

Sometimes I also feel some muscles tensioning in the come up. It's not always the same muscle group, I've sure felt the lower back muscles a few times, then I notice and try to relax that region but it's not easy to do that. In the end it does disappear but I've wondered few times during a session why some muscles seems to follow an own mind of their own. It's not to the level of spasm in my case though, just tensioning sections, nothing like cramps though.

 

[jiva]

sounds to me a lot like epileptic seizures.
- a bit of background: everybody is capable of having epileptic seizures. the majority of epileptic seizures are caused by alcohol. They are a general reaction of the brain when there is something like an overload.
because of this i would not be surprised if some people react to the intensity of DMT in this way

(epileptic seizures will be the topic of an upcoming exam i have to take)

@ANDEI: my advide, be very careful, epileptic seizures them self (in most cases) do not cause brain damage BUT there are strong ones, and the more of them you have the bigger the risk of taking damage becomes.
Talk to a doctor!!!
do your research on the different kinds of epileptic seizures there are and make sure you know what you are getting into. having you brain to go through such stress everytime you smoke weed might not be the best option.

 

[ANDEI]

Aw, that's really nice of you guys tihi!

I'll take everything of what you've said into account and hopefully, there isn't any underlying condition responsible for the intense muscle spasms.

Indeed, the weird part is that I get the shivering and muscle spasms almost as intense as the ones that I experience on DMT, when I smoke regular weed, (also paranoid delusions) EVERY SINGLE TIME.

So, that can be regarded as a serious and quite concerning thing on its own.

Nonetheless, thank you once again!

I'll do my research on epileptic seizures and HOPEFULLY, it's not the case.

Mention: I no longer smoke weed because I can't handle the shivers.

 

[dragonrider]

I had it too, a couple of times. I haven't been able yet to find a pattern...it just happens sometimes, but usually it doesn't. It only happens to me during the onset, and not during tge rest of the experience. And i've never had it with ayahuasca, but i did have it with shrooms and vaped DMT. Never with another substance.

It never felt unpleasant or painfull, but it isn't exactly pleasant either. It felt very simmilar to the unvoluntary shivers you get when your body is very cold. Like when you went swimming in very cold water.

Maybe it's an automatic response to vasoconstriction?

 

[AikyO]

I've had the shivers too, but more like if I was feeling really cold - as I felt kinda cold when it wasn't really. Which I attriubted to a feelig if loneliness, it seems to me coldness reminds us of loneliness to a very deep level.

Somztime it's hard to oinpoint what something means with dmt because so much happens at once and you get swallowed in the flow, but for me it was always taking part in a story. Mostly because I would see the shivers as this loneliness issue and I needed to adress it.

 

[jiva]

I've had the shivers too, but more like if I was feeling really cold - as I felt kinda cold when it wasn't really. Which I attriubted to a feelig if loneliness, it seems to me coldness reminds us of loneliness to a very deep level.

if i remember dr rick strassman "spirit molecule" correctly, this shiver because of coldness is something that is normally associated with DMT and is used to test tolerance and effectiveness of dmt in animals - i think in the book it was mice.


edit: because of this i have my trip blanket

 

[ANDEI]

Tihihi, dressing up in ''placebo winter'' style will definetely be a top priority in my next experiences!

Apart from that, the most I can relate to is what AikyO said, except for the fact that the spasms feel as if they are pulsating through the muscles of my body in a violent, spontaneous yet constant way which might pose similar resemblance to the experience of being electrocuted or of having a seizure (hopefully not the case).

The muscle spasms, tremors or how you want to call them, feel DEEPLY WORRYING in regards of the severity of this specific side effect which could easily be interpreted as a possible health concern, at least by myself.

Also, they represent one of the main factors that stop me from breaking-through.

They simply deny my ability of focusing on what I should focus onto.

One more time, I appreciate your responses VERY MUCH because through the experiences and pieces of advice that you're sharing with me, you're also offering me the support that I need in order to overcome this issue.

Thank you!

 

[ANDEI]

I've got to THANK all of YOU for providing the support that I've needed.

I made it. I'm alive. I'm very happy. I kept shouting ''so lovely'' because it is so lovely indeed when you finally learn how to let go and do so! (& put few pullovers on, as a slight mention)

Thank you dear internet buddies. You helped me a lot!

And what also helped me a lot, was the fact that I've tripped on my own.

In the previous experiences, my gf trip sitted me and I now realize that I've been way more afraid of dying or of getting her into any kind of trouble trouble than now.

By doing it all by myself, I finally embraced everything and I'm grateful for the experience and thankful for your support.

Peace and love as always YUPII!!

 

[Jees]

 

[Quetzal7]

sounds to me a lot like epileptic seizures.
- a bit of background: everybody is capable of having epileptic seizures. the majority of epileptic seizures are caused by alcohol. They are a general reaction of the brain when there is something like an overload.
because of this i would not be surprised if some people react to the intensity of DMT in this way

(epileptic seizures will be the topic of an upcoming exam i have to take)

@ANDEI: my advide, be very careful, epileptic seizures them self (in most cases) do not cause brain damage BUT there are strong ones, and the more of them you have the bigger the risk of taking damage becomes.
Talk to a doctor!!!
do your research on the different kinds of epileptic seizures there are and make sure you know what you are getting into. having you brain to go through such stress everytime you smoke weed might not be the best option.

I saw a friend having a Epileptic seizure + alien channeling on changa. Without doubt, i never have been that scared in my entire life. That was so intense, so crazy, so loud, so violent. I serisously thought he was dead, after that. I would never give DMT again to an epileptic person.

On another scale, i got huge tension and body pressure feeling on breakthrough doses of DMT, which are really horrible. That's why i don't breakthrouh offenly (i go for pharmahuasca instead, much more gentle). I'm not sure what's goin on, i wonder if it could be a kind of "trauma" from non integrated death experiences (in my first DMT breakthrou, i had really hard experiences).
On the other hand, i had convulsion after long meditation session (like a vipassana retread) and it's a "normal" process that the body go throu when heavy psychological stuff are being worked on. So these DMT happenings could be just an accelerated form of the process.

 

[jiva]

I would never give DMT again to an epileptic person.

the problem is, there is no such thing as an epileptic person.
every person is capable of having epileptic seizures. it is a reaction of the brain to some kind of overload. this overload can be triggered by anything. as i wrote most of them are triggered by alcohol. there doesnot have to be a pre-condition!

so it could happen that you go out with your drinking buddies and suddenly one of them has an epileptic seizure. even though he did not drink more than any other time and has no precondition.
There is a lot we do not know about the brain and a lot of factors like mood, or even subconscious factors can have an impact - but we just do not know at this point.
because of the intensity of certain drugs especially DMT you can never know how anybody will react to it.

that being said there are certain preconditions that make it more likely for people to have epileptic seizures. eg. if you have had a brain attack before or numerous other conditions

 

[dragonrider]

It doesn't have to be epileptic. It could be so many things. They could be non epileptic psychogenic seizures, for instance. For several reasons, i don't think the convulsions MOST people have on psychedelics, are epileptic. But as you also seem to experience them on multiple other occasions, yours might be different.

In case you have epilepsy, CBD seems to be effective against epileptic seizures. It may be worth trying.

 

[ANDEI]

Thank you for deepening this specific aspect represented by the possibility of experiencing an epileptic seizure.

Fortunately, this proved not to be the case for me and I'm definetely GRATEFUL for that.

Furthermore, Dragonrider will take a high grade on his exam, I can guarantee that for him.

Tihihi positive vibes YUPII!

 

[Mecme]

I'm not sure if this is the same as what you're talking about but when I smoke I can't keep my body still. I don't shake but my muscles do get tense and contort some. I roll all over the bed, I stretch out, I get into funny positions, my hands sometimes grab the sheets or clentch up or sometimes my whole body goes straight like a plan. This only happens on big doses not small ones and I don't have much control over it. During breakthroughs I have no idea what's going on, I might be moving or I might be still ? I'd have to set up a camera to see what was happening but once I'm aware of my body I'm all over the place until I slowly relax

 

[ANDEI]

This might happen due to sudden releases of dormant chi energy, at least, that's what I believe.