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What's the deal with Albizzia? Tired of wondering, so i'll do an A/B..

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mantis12

mantis12

'time is the moving image of eternity' -plato
In my region there is a tree identical to Mimosa, but all of the research i have done on it says it's Albizzia, (Albizia)..
Over 8 months of research has led only to mixed conclusions, and i have never found anyone who claims to have actually tried to extract whatever tryptamines may be present.. so i'm going to just give it a try and i'll let you know what happens.
in the meantime, please provide feedback. perhaps i've missed something. the albizzia has been mentioned on the Nexus, but i am still curious about the results i could get from this indisputably identical plant.
((i Will take care not to harm the trees i collect my materials from! i am researching the best methods for this as well.))
thoughts? advice? knowledge bombs?


peace, love, gratitude.
mantis12
 
i am curious to know this myself, as i am surrounded by albizia saman (monkey pod) trees.

it probably wouldn't be safe/advisable to consume your extract, but you could probably set up a TLC or something.
 
I'd be very interested to know as well. I have a huge one right in my backyard, and some smaller ones growing all around my neighborhood.

So Erlequin, you say you smoke the flowers and it provides a nice mood lift? I just may have to go pick off a bunch of flowers tomorrow afternoon (if it's not raining still) and try giving it a go. Could be something to mix with some Harmala enhanced leaf to see if the mood lift could be potentiated any.
 
i'm glad to know i'm not the only one wondering about this :)
the info provided in the above comment is in agreement with the research i have done so far, though i still can't help but wonder..
 
Got ya on the headache thing, will be on alert just in case. As for me, i've haven't tried smoking the flowers yet, though i have some drying right now too and will probably give it ago sometime in the next week or two. I've went out back for the past two days and picked as many flowers off as i could on one of the lower hanging branches. They are almost fully dry and have shriveled quite a bit, so i might be on the look out for some more flowers and get em' as i see em'.

Trying it with spice (or Changa for that matter) would be cool to see if there's any differences in the experience. I've never smoked straight spice but have some spare Harmala enhanced Caapi leaf and some spare Changa i might try some with, first with the Harmalas though just to make sure things are okay on that front, but then the Changa.
 
So my dog, Wilfred, thinks that it would be the bomb to get some definite information on an A/B extraction for this type of tree. In fact, there are a quite a few near a back alley sour milk puddle that he frequents.
He told me a few days ago that he decided to pick a few flowers - but some that had fallen on the ground and some fresh from the tree. He wasn't sure about any prep work - being a dog and all - so he just packed it in his bowl and token away. He reported to me a nice feeling. "Oh my God, Ziah! Look at the ground, it's rolling". Patterns and weird light crystals appeared where slightly blurred vision usually is when he turned his head at a speed. This was described later after he had toked away more and more.
Overall definite increase in mood and feeling after a short time from the first toke.
Increased quality of sleep and vivid dreams.
"Sleep felt amazing!".

On a second day he reported that he had smoked some mixed with some marijuana. He noted similar affects as before but at a seemingly increased speed.

No headaches either time. But Wilfred says that he doesn't seem prone to get them -
never really got them much during his life. Only when really sick.

He is interested in possibly smoking on the bark as well.
Also: making some tea of this delightful flower and/or bark.

Any suggestions on best method of smoking/making tea:
possibly the best parts of the flower?
different potency based on how much color the flowers have?
(some here only have a slight, washed down color. Others are vibrant)
possible (simple) extraction of flowers for more potent "goodies"?


Insight on smoking any of the leaves?


Anyways. Figured I would keep an eye out of this for Wilfred.
Besides, he really wanted to share his experience.

Thanks! :D
 
Ahh, gul-i abrisham! I personally love this tree, one of my favorites, and they have surrounded me my whole life. I am growing one of the rosea variety, the seeds of which I collected from the tree next to my boyhood home (and which flirted with me during a mushroom trip, seriously) and the taller regular kind grows everywhere here.

Surely in your research you have found that this plant was bio-assayed millennia ago and was found by the Chinese herb-doctors to have anti-depressant qualities (Or "nourish the hear and calm the spirit" - sounds like antidepression to me) which has been partially corroborated by modern scientists. I believe these effects were found to be mediated by some triterpenoid saponins and their effects on the 5HT1A receptor (as an antagonist, I think). I'm fairly sure none of those substances would come through in an A/B, but maybe you'll get lucky and find the REAL stuff in there.

I think you should do it, just so we can scratch it off the list as having been done. I dunno what you are expecting the get from the extract - it's probably not going to be psychedelic is what I mean... I think if any interesting alkaloids had been found wed've heard about it... but of course we know nitrogen isn't a prerequisite for psychedelia (ala salvinorin a or THC, everyones favorite terpenoid. But still, I support this effort. Try making some tinctures while you're at it - I've read that the flowers make a great tincture, probably quite fragrant - and you're definitely gonna get effects from a tincture. Look up some terpenoid extractions and try 'em. But do be nice to them, like i said it I love the tree.

And make sure you check the other species, albizzia is a big genus
EDIT- woah, just found that Ratsch found n,n-DMT in A. inundata, a sounth american species. So theres that :)
 
I have heard from a handful of people that Albzia contains serotonin and norepinephrene in it's root bark. I have no scientific evidence of that, it's just hear-say.

I know serotonin won't cross the blood/brain barrier, but what would happen if you smoked norepinephrene?

Blessings
~ND
 
Nathanial.Dread said:
I have heard from a handful of people that Albzia contains serotonin and norepinephrene in it's root bark. I have no scientific evidence of that, it's just hear-say.

I know serotonin won't cross the blood/brain barrier, but what would happen if you smoked norepinephrene?

Blessings
~ND
Click to expand...

If it indeed crosses BBB, the actions may be entirely unpleasant, even dangerous. Extremely potent vasoconstrictor, will raise HR significantly, and since it's "Nor" it will certainly increase blood flow in the brain's capillary arteries. A mild substitute to experiment with such effects is Ginkgo Biloba extract, which inhibits Norepinephrine re-uptake. If that is uncomfortable (which is to me), I'd stay clear from smoking NorEpi isolate.
 
Erlequin said:
The mild visuals are lovely aren't they? The rolling ground sensation, along with seeing the smoke I exhaled as being violet.

As far as the flowers go, I prefer to pick the flowers directly from the tree, the brighter and fresher the better it seems. A drying rack or dehydrator is useful in preparing the flowers to burn more readily, I have not noticed a significant difference in potency between dry and fresh, but dry smokes much easier. I usually smoke the whole flower, but I have also separated the fibrous hairy part and smoked just that, and again did not see any particular difference.

I have no experience with any other part of the tree at this point, beyond smoking. According to Traditional Chinese Medicine, the bark and flowers are brewed into tea. I'd love to see investigation on what exactly is in the various parts, particularly the seed pods and leaves.
Click to expand...

Definitely! It has always been dusk -to- complete darkness when Wilfred has smoked. So at first it was thought that the rolling ground sensation was tricks of the eyes, but seeing as it has happened every time and that you seem to have experienced it as well lets me know that I may not be completely crazy. As for the violet smoke sounds nice. I haven't noticed it since it has always been darkish outside. I will have to see if I can check that during the daylight.

How much do you typically smoke at a time? A flower? A number of flowers? Wilfred seems a bit weary of going "over board" with Albizzia since there seems to be some controversy and lack of insight over it being harmful and all. I totally forgot about the seed pods.

I'm anxious to learn more about this, for Wilfred's sake that is. Thank you for sharing :D
 
Erlequin said:
I usually grab the flowers by the handful. Most of the time I use my glass bong, which has a replacement bowl, I think it is fairly standard in size. I usually smoke 3 or more bowls for full effect. I can feel it setting in within the first bowl, but by that third I have to put the pipe down for a while, and just enjoy.

I think the potential harm might be related to direct extraction of the active alkaloids, but hypothetically over imbibing something that enhances serotonin has dangers as well.
Click to expand...


I see! I've been reading up more on TCM and Albizia. Given that it seems the bark and flowers are generally mixed together, I think some bark will be the next step on my side and then perhaps a nice mixture of the two.
 
Does anyone know if it is the outer bark or the inner? I would assume inner bark but most articles that I have read don't specifically mention it - except for one that said inner.
 
mantis12 said:
In my region there is a tree identical to Mimosa, but all of the research i have done on it says it's Albizzia, (Albizia)..
Over 8 months of research has led only to mixed conclusions, and i have never found anyone who claims to have actually tried to extract whatever tryptamines may be present.. so i'm going to just give it a try and i'll let you know what happens.
in the meantime, please provide feedback. perhaps i've missed something. the albizzia has been mentioned on the Nexus, but i am still curious about the results i could get from this indisputably identical plant.
((i Will take care not to harm the trees i collect my materials from! i am researching the best methods for this as well.))
thoughts? advice? knowledge bombs?


peace, love, gratitude.
mantis12
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but I am growing some Albizia julibrissin right now. It grows super fast. Someone actually sold them to me on ebay as mimosa hostilis. I got a refund for them, but i decided to grow them anyways since i have been interested in the genus.
 
Two threads, many people interested, plant grows invasively, STILL no A/B extraction people?
Iam going to have to do this one myself, as i had planned to do before, and then later forgot.

EDT:ALSO forgot to mention it looks exactly like mimosa hostilis, but without the thorns.
This tree is called the happiness tree. It has pink poofy flowers and grows everywhere.
I grown up with this tree, and have always felt that there is something special about it.

:love:
 
Actually the plant has some clear differences with Mimosa Hostilis, but the relevant part is no tryptamines have ever been found in Albizia Julibrissin in any meaningful concentration.

The plant has relaxing and antidepressant properties, but not entheogenic reports, so do not hope to find known alkaloids in it, you'd be disappointed. There's several threads about its properties you can find here with the search function.
 
Thanks Vodsel for that clarification. Still going to try, and see, eventually.


A. julibrissin has been reported as an anxiogenic, antidepressant, euphoric, hypnotic sedative. That sounds entheogenic to me. In traditional Chinese medicine Albizzia jublibrissin is used to nourish the heart and calm the spirit.

Quote:
The active constituents of albizia are saponins and tannins, while specifically, it contains albitocin, b-sitosterol, amyrin, 3,4,7-trihydroxyflavone, spinasterylglucoside, machaerinic acid, lactone, methyl ester, acaci acid, and lactone. [9] Several compounds of flavonol glycosides, which have demonstrated sedative activity [4], including quercetrin and isoquercetrin are also a part of its constituents. Finally, research has revealed significant antioxidant activity from the bark.[10]

Evidently, few studies of albizia have been conducted. In one animal study examining the sedative effects of a methanol fresh-flower extract (400g in 3 L), two isolated compounds from albizzia, quercetrin and isoquercetrin (flavonol glycosides), were both found to increase pentobarbital-induced sleeping time in a dose-dependent manner in mice.[11] This indicates a possible herb-drug interaction that patients taking sedatives should be made aware of. This substantiates the sedative claims for albizia, as well. Yet, through my experience, and that of my patients, none have ever reported feelings of drowsiness from the recommended or even relatively higher doses of albizia alcoholic extract or powder.

Interestingly, a methanolic extract of the stem bark of Albizia julibrissin was also found to have significant potential in scavenging destructive free radicals, making albizzia a useful anti-aging antioxidant as well. [12]


QUOTE: s0urce
"
I got maybe 100g of the bark today and 5g of that in a tea is superb. Really strong, calming uplifting effect, all anxiety diminished and a kind of pre-dream state without noticeable sedation, just the feeling that you could relax and nap anytime if you wanted to."


"*UPDATE: 11g might be a bit excessive. I woke up at 6 hours in with profound effects. I wouldn't call it impairment but all I was "required" to do was walk to the bathroom and back. Definitely altered and moreso than necessary, an intensewaking dream state. I did really enjoy an extra hour of light sleep in the morning and then relaxation exercises and meditation for another hour after that, but to be conservative I'll probably dose half of that when I use this at night from this point on."

"0:30 halfway down, similar calming effects, alert, one effect I've been noticing is compulsive thinking or racing thoughts of any kind are seen in the third person perspective- that is, self-created anxieties completely alleviated. A break from the stuff I tell myself that might cause anxiety. (Example- I forgot to email so and so what should I do tomorrow that's pressing the dishes aren't done yet I better do them before I go to bed or.... NAAAAAH just chilling instead, and not to my detriment- dishes are easy on the substance too but half a sinkful isn't killing anyone)

1:00 things that normally occupy me are not, because sleep seems inviting. Or just relaxing in bed. I want to stretch a lot and feel like I'm breathing deeper. Surfing websites is a hindrance from what my brain and body really want.

1:15 Went to bed feeling good, made sure I'd drank all the tea and read like 10 pages from a book that I am really digging. But like the night before I was nodding and dropping the book, waking up alarmed a bit by the action and after 2x of that I closed the book visited the bathroom one last time and went to sleep. I don't remember being awake for any amount of time before I fell asleep, I think i shifted positions once or twice but was comfy as can be, slept all through the night and woke up after 7 hours.

9 AM Woke up feeling halfway in dreamland. Not sedated in the drug sense but like the sleep cycle wasn't finished. I've noted in the past that I'm a "short-cycle" sleeper supposedly so this may be the key benefit of this plant for me. Chilled in bed with the cat for a half hour then we both slept for another hour. So at ease physically and mentally, no feeling of "Heck I'll just get up and drink coffee" or "I gotta do this and this so why am I laying in bed?" I don't remember any dreams only the impression that I'd had some in the morning."

"Honestly it felt so much like xanax in the middle of the night, but if it were possible to design a xanax with no bad side effects or even no bad effects at all, this would be what it'd be like, in my mind."
 
MaNoMaNoM said:
Thanks Vodsel for that clarification. Still going to try, and see, eventually.


A. julibrissin has been reported as an anxiogenic, antidepressant, euphoric, hypnotic sedative. That sounds entheogenic to me. In traditional Chinese medicine Albizzia jublibrissin is used to nourish the heart and calm the spirit.

Quote:
The active constituents of albizia are saponins and tannins, while specifically, it contains albitocin, b-sitosterol, amyrin, 3,4,7-trihydroxyflavone, spinasterylglucoside, machaerinic acid, lactone, methyl ester, acaci acid, and lactone. [9] Several compounds of flavonol glycosides, which have demonstrated sedative activity [4], including quercetrin and isoquercetrin are also a part of its constituents. Finally, research has revealed significant antioxidant activity from the bark.[10]

Evidently, few studies of albizia have been conducted. In one animal study examining the sedative effects of a methanol fresh-flower extract (400g in 3 L), two isolated compounds from albizzia, quercetrin and isoquercetrin (flavonol glycosides), were both found to increase pentobarbital-induced sleeping time in a dose-dependent manner in mice.[11] This indicates a possible herb-drug interaction that patients taking sedatives should be made aware of. This substantiates the sedative claims for albizia, as well. Yet, through my experience, and that of my patients, none have ever reported feelings of drowsiness from the recommended or even relatively higher doses of albizia alcoholic extract or powder.

Interestingly, a methanolic extract of the stem bark of Albizia julibrissin was also found to have significant potential in scavenging destructive free radicals, making albizzia a useful anti-aging antioxidant as well. [12]


QUOTE: s0urce
"
I got maybe 100g of the bark today and 5g of that in a tea is superb. Really strong, calming uplifting effect, all anxiety diminished and a kind of pre-dream state without noticeable sedation, just the feeling that you could relax and nap anytime if you wanted to."


"*UPDATE: 11g might be a bit excessive. I woke up at 6 hours in with profound effects. I wouldn't call it impairment but all I was "required" to do was walk to the bathroom and back. Definitely altered and moreso than necessary, an intensewaking dream state. I did really enjoy an extra hour of light sleep in the morning and then relaxation exercises and meditation for another hour after that, but to be conservative I'll probably dose half of that when I use this at night from this point on."

"0:30 halfway down, similar calming effects, alert, one effect I've been noticing is compulsive thinking or racing thoughts of any kind are seen in the third person perspective- that is, self-created anxieties completely alleviated. A break from the stuff I tell myself that might cause anxiety. (Example- I forgot to email so and so what should I do tomorrow that's pressing the dishes aren't done yet I better do them before I go to bed or.... NAAAAAH just chilling instead, and not to my detriment- dishes are easy on the substance too but half a sinkful isn't killing anyone)

1:00 things that normally occupy me are not, because sleep seems inviting. Or just relaxing in bed. I want to stretch a lot and feel like I'm breathing deeper. Surfing websites is a hindrance from what my brain and body really want.

1:15 Went to bed feeling good, made sure I'd drank all the tea and read like 10 pages from a book that I am really digging. But like the night before I was nodding and dropping the book, waking up alarmed a bit by the action and after 2x of that I closed the book visited the bathroom one last time and went to sleep. I don't remember being awake for any amount of time before I fell asleep, I think i shifted positions once or twice but was comfy as can be, slept all through the night and woke up after 7 hours.

9 AM Woke up feeling halfway in dreamland. Not sedated in the drug sense but like the sleep cycle wasn't finished. I've noted in the past that I'm a "short-cycle" sleeper supposedly so this may be the key benefit of this plant for me. Chilled in bed with the cat for a half hour then we both slept for another hour. So at ease physically and mentally, no feeling of "Heck I'll just get up and drink coffee" or "I gotta do this and this so why am I laying in bed?" I don't remember any dreams only the impression that I'd had some in the morning."

"Honestly it felt so much like xanax in the middle of the night, but if it were possible to design a xanax with no bad side effects or even no bad effects at all, this would be what it'd be like, in my mind."
Click to expand...
Yo thinks for the helpful insights. I am going to be harvesting any and all the pink flowers resembling albizia from shy grass to mimosa to monkey pod from my neighborhood here on the big island. I have been making tea from mimosa, butterfly pea, and shy grass flowers for years. It helps me with my insomnia
 
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