Whats your opinion on Alkaline/extreme raw/vegan etc diets

[SHroomtroll]

Ive noticed that alot of people ive met through ayahuasca circles seem to be into these crazy new agey diets.
Usually they consist of high amounts of uncooked veggies and fruits and generally only focusing on micro nutrients.
Most of them are vegans and totally seem to ignore our need for protein, i even have some friends who believe that if you get all your vitamins and minerals then our body can create all the amino acids we need.

One thing that these people have in common is that they look like shit tbh, very skinny and sickish skin for example together with some kind of loathing for anyone who has more muscle mass than a marathon runner.

I like to read about diet and training since im into martial arts and strength training. I consider myself a good internet sourcer but all google can find for me is a bunch of snakes oil salesmen who cite pseudo science and always has some secret herbs for sale.

Now i might sound like a hater but ive caught so much flack from these kind of cultish people that i need to find out how common this kind of behaviour is.
Im also very surprised that people who are doing ayahuasca regularly can be so delusional about their health.
I mean alot of people who eat like that get very sick after awhile but it doesnt seem to stop them from continuing to abuse their bodies.


Its like they found out that our governments have been lying to us about what we are supposed to eat, and instead of breaking free and trying to learn themselves they just listen to some other authority about what they should do.

End rant.

 

[dreamer042]

This is all too common and it is indeed unfortunate. These kind of extreme diets (raw, alkaline, etc..) can be great for short term cleansing and healing, but they more often than not turn out not to be sustainable in the long term (at least not without copious amounts of expensive supplementation).

I think much more important than following any specific type of diet is to eat good quality food. Almost anything you purchase from a grocer is going to be less nutritious than if you grew/raised it yourself or got it fresh from someone that does. One can't really expect a healthy mineral and nutrition rich food from depleted soils, particularly when it's been packaged and sold weeks, even months after the time it was harvested and kept "fresh" with chemicals while being shipped half way around the country or globe.

I'll skip getting into the processed food issue as that's whole nother can of worms and these items should be avoided entirely. Though I will give you a fun one for your vegan friends, Lightlife the "certified vegan" company that makes all kinds of processed faux animal products is owned by Conagra foods who is one the most notorious factory farming operations there is. In general this goes for pretty much every prepackaged processed vegan product on the shelves, all owned by the same megacorps that run the factory farms. Kinda shatters the myth of making ethical choices in the grocery store when the entire grocery store system is itself unethical.

Anyway I'll stop with the ranting. Grow moar food and support your local farmer!

 

[universecannon]

I think it's difficult to generalize about this sort of thing. Slotting a massive and diverse group of people and their myriad eating habits under these umbrella terms can be tempting, but is ultimately misleading and a generalization. I know some unhealthy vegetarians who just gorge themselves on pasta and junk food all day, and vegans who eat a lot of processed foods, or are way too low on their calories or eat mostly just carrots and rommaine etc. I also know a lot of unhealthy folks on a more typical american diet, or 'paleo' type diet, etc. But on the flipside, I know people on all of these different kinds of diets who seem relatively or sometimes very healthy, due to whatever factors. My one friend is probably addicted to taco bell, but I don't know if he's ever been sick. I don't say this to imply that we should all just eat whatever crap we feel like so long as we are't falling apart, or that there aren't significant impacts on things such as their perception/neural system etc even if we appear 'healthy', but to instead point out that the conclusions we make about this sort of thing based on our own small window perspective of people and their eating habits can be quite tricky. For example, we always focus more on those who don't succeed on a more rare kind of diet than those who do, and this can skew our perspective a lot.

I think it more so comes down to the individual differences, and how they specifically go about doing it. For me nothing else I've tried makes me feel as great as I do now than eating a plant-based uncooked diet of fruit, veggies, greens, nuts, bee stuff etc, but I avoid all of these dietary labels since they hold a lot of baggage and I really can't identify with them anyways (and protein honestly isn't an issue IMO if you really look into this, and in fact too much protein can be a very bad idea). I've been eating this way for 4 or 5 years, eat a ton of food everyday without massive amounts of supplements (although almost everyone could do better by incorporating some, considering how deficient our soils have become, how our produces quality has dropped, and how, IMO, our bodies ability to assimilate nutrients has been heavily compromised in recent times). So far as I have seen I'm not deficient in any key elements, and I feel incredible. Depression has evaporated, social anxiety is getting better all the time, and so on. I've tried incorporating other things such as eggs, dairy, or fish into it, but it just hasn't sat well with my system. I know many who have ate this way carefully for 20 years or longer and are in great health, as well as their children who have been that way for their entire lives. It also seems to have had a massive effect on my psychedelic experiences, and my sensitivity to ayahuasca in particular has skyrocketed- I need about half as much as I used to for the same effects (microdosing probably played a role in this to).

I could get into the details of the other reasons behind why I eat this way but I've already ranted about Tony Wright and other peoples work on the influence of plant biochemistry in our development elsewhere in the forums enough. For me the bottom line is that it just works tremendously well for me, and I know countless people who are more or less in the same boat. As a disclaimer I definitely don't think this is something that's going to work great for everyone right off the bat or at all, or that it's a 'cure-all' as many people like to claim about all kinds of these diets. It's tempting to always blame our diets for any issue we have but I think the overall situation regarding the condition of humans is a bit more complex than that at the moment.

Anyways, considering we are basically primates, and now know a decent amount about the health benefits/detriments of our various foods available, it's somewhat ironic and disturbing that most people I know won't bat an eye at a person or parent who feeds their kids poisonous fast food and junk everyday, but will in the next moment look at you like your clinically insane and on the verge of death if you happen to mention that you eat a plant-based diet. I think that speaks a lot about just how disconnected to reality we've become.

 

[Akasha224]

Anyways, considering we are basically primates, and now know a decent amount about the health benefits/detriments of our various foods available, it's somewhat ironic and disturbing that most people I know won't bat an eye at a person or parent who feeds their kids poisonous fast food and junk everyday, but will in the next moment look at you like your clinically insane and on the verge of death if you happen to mention that you eat a plant-based diet. I think that speaks a lot about just how disconnected to reality we've become.

I absolutely second this. The worst part is when these same people say things like "you're so lucky that you're so skinny," etc., as if discipline, careful research, and other lifestyle changes (exercise, not drinking/smoking, etc.) have nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, they're stuffing their third McDouble down their throat, but at least they only got a Diet Coke right?

 

[HumbleTraveler]

There are many non-meat based sources rich in protein. Lentils for example.

I used to work at a very high end bicycle store which catered to the triathlon crowd and competitive road race/criterium riders. A very significant portion of the TOP athletes have committed themselves to raw/vegan diets for years now, who, when they told me, I was shocked. This was prior to me really knowing what I do now also. The shape these people were in was phenomenal. The amount of lean muscle they had was truly jaw dropping. I dont know if anyone here has ever known a comeptitive cyclist or seen photos of the pro's who ride for the big teams that race the Tour de France, etc. But the muscle on these riders, especially their legs, is insane.

There are plenty of articles available too for raw vegan body builders and such who get their protein through vegetable sources.

Ive cut meat out of my diet significantly. I stand by my decision and it's been very beneficial and positive for me. I still consume chicken and fish occasionally, my red meat intake has essentially gone to maybe once every 6 months. If that even. I only have chicken or fish once or twice a week.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

What works for 1 person..definitely may work for another but not all. I don't think people realize that what they choose as a diet is necessarily working for them and fail to see that objectively. And then you enter the whole judgement area which isn't always a nice area of conversation within the domain of diets. It can be quite personal actually. However, for many it does work. No matter what their initial appearance is. I feel many people care a lot more about other things other than diet so it disinterests them to know whether or not it is actually working for them or not.

Clearly it takes work to change diets and balance them into what you do..internally and externally. And I don't think many are interested in that kind of work, which can be sad in some ways.

As universecannon suggested, it is very hard to generalize. What it really comes down to is what works for you. Who's to say what another shall or shall not eat?

 

[jamie]

Extremes are not healthy, IME. As soon as what you are doing feels extreme for you, you should ponder this..nothing can exist in balance when everything is in a state of extremes.

Do I personally believe that eating properly raised organic meat, or cooked food causes any detrimental effects? No. That is my honest opinion after wasting far too much time obsessing over such things. Thing are so far out of balance in our world I think it is a waste of energy to worry about food so much if you are eating a clean organic diet of whole foods already. If what you are doing works, then do it and don't worry about it. Who cares what anyone else says, or what is the newest fad diet?

 

[SHroomtroll]

To be clear im def not bashing vegans or raw food people in general.
Im fully aware one can function and thrive without any animal based products, as long as you know what you are doing and make sure to eat what you need.
What im interested in is to find real sources of the benefits these alkaline or raw only diets.
I want to se results of blood work tests, hormone response from before/after, and most of all i would like to see someone who has been on this kind of diet for some time switch to a more balanced one and compare results.
Not just anecdotal evidence from people who say they feel great etc.

Alot of the people ive met who is into these diets came from very bad eating habits and have no real knowledge base about nutrition and what is healthy etc.
Its just common sense that if you are used to living off mostly simple carbs that if you remove these and add a shitton of veggies that you will see a improvement in health.