Where is this coming from?

[oversoul1919]

More and more DMT experience I have, more and more I'm noticing something strange.

It appears that my DMT trips are more East oriented than anything else.

I'm saying this because I never particularly was interested in Eastern - Oriental culture. If I was interested in some cultures, those were Ancient Egyptian and South American. Never has any particularly attracted me towards Eastern culture and religion.

But DMT tells the another story.

My trips are mostly Arabic, Tibetan and Hindu themed. Encounter with Buddha like entities, Arabic patterns and geometries, like those found on their carpets and mosques, and of course Hindu gods/goddesses (Ganesha, Kali...).

I really don't know why. Yes, now I do read about Eastern culture, but that's because DMT made me so.

Have any of you experienced something similar?

 

[DeltaSpice]

Culture wise I've only experienced Aztec and Alien.
Although my first attempt at vaping DMT I saw that blue multi armed women flying about.
After that I saw her on the nexus art page and was flabbergasted .

 

[Global]

The bulk of my cultural experiences were Egyptian, but I did have my fair share of oriental, hindu, and african tribal experiences. I'm sure there are some that are slipping my mind. I've never encountered Aztec related phenomenon so far as I can remember. DMT does not seem to care for what you are interested in or not. Although some may be, it seems that not all DMT are custom tailored to you.

 

[arcologist]

It's coming from you. Your past experiences and expectations shape the landscape of hyperspace because it paints a reality using things you are familiar with. Hyperspace is extremely malleable and is easily altered by tiny differences in mindset.

I have always tried to go there with no expectations of what I might see, and I have not seen any elements of human culture unrelated to what I have experienced in my life. Everything else is extremely alien. Usually the entities I encounter aren't humanoid at all and resemble a shadow or blob of color.

Think of it like what happens in the movie Contact. If there are aliens/entities, they read your mind and use that to present hyperspace in a certain way that is aligned with your experiences.

It's why a shaman in the Amazon sees a jaguar spirit while not everyone taking Ayahuasca in the US/Europe will do the same. Hyperspace is presented using imagery that they are familiar with, or are preconditioned to see by having heard other people's experiences.

 

[RAM]

While one might be inclined to say that these gestalts arise from your past experiences and the information in your sub/unconscious, I think that the explanation for what appears during the subjective experience in hyperspace really depends on where you believe hyperspace originates.

If you are of the school that it arises solely from your own mind, then yes these Eastern images and objects could simply be coming from a place deep in your mind that you may have been ignoring for some time. I know personally that after DMT experiences I am more prone to remembering events from my childhood and early teen years that I may not have recalled otherwise. Sometimes people or events from my far past even pop up during my experiences!

However if you are of the camp that the experience is totally foreign and of external origin, then the explanation depends on whatever you think controls what appears in this space for you. Do you have some kind of guardian angel, a personal yet possibly invisible Virgil, who is guiding what appears to you? Is there some kind of demon or entity assigned to your psychedelic case file? Coming up with an answer to these types of questions will be extremely difficult unless the answers are shown directly to you, and you choose to believe them.

Another popular possibility is that hyperspace consists of your perspective of whatever exactly is being shown to you. Are you interpreting as Eastern what another might interpret as African? What do these labels even mean in the context of our own culture(s)?

There may also be common archetypes that appear frequently throughout civilizations in the universe, and these archetypes could then be aggregated and subsequently "broadcasted" on the frequency that you pick up on with DMT.

These are just some theories, of course as there are always many more that we could come up with. This could just be self-propagating too; maybe you had a couple Eastern gestalts from one trip and they just cascaded into a series of them on subsequent trips. You know your mind better than any of us, so with some reflection you may be able to come upon the source.

 

[DoingKermit]

I have had a lot of Egyptian themed trips, but never the far east. My girlfriend says she almost all ways has an Indian/Hindu theme to her trips. It seems completely random, but could be playing off some subconscious memory.

 

[Global]

Another popular possibility is that hyperspace consists of your perspective of whatever exactly is being shown to you. Are you interpreting as Eastern what another might interpret as African? What do these labels even mean in the context of our own culture(s)?

I find this possibility to be unlikely. Could you ever confuse or have any doubt about the origin of these two images? It's often quite explicit.

Incidences such as this one lead me to believe that they are not an amalgamation of subconscious elements either. If that were the case, I would expect pop culture icons and themes to appear much more frequently such as celebrities, cartoon/video game characters, etc...but this is not the case. I know that you say you have encountered people from your past, and I have heard some others say that as well, but I've never had that experience.

 

[Jees]

It's coming from you. Your past experiences and expectations shape the landscape of hyperspace because it paints a reality using things you are familiar with. Hyperspace is extremely malleable and is easily altered by tiny differences in mindset.

A very potent possibility.
There was this heavily religious arabic guy meeting Fatima during a session, in a complete set of utter islamic typography. I wondered if any old school south American shaman, or an eskimo in session, is vulnerable for such equal event. Our interests (latent or not), frames of life, etc, are very inspirational sources. Like in regular dreams.

 

[oversoul1919]

Another popular possibility is that hyperspace consists of your perspective of whatever exactly is being shown to you. Are you interpreting as Eastern what another might interpret as African? What do these labels even mean in the context of our own culture(s)?

I find this possibility to be unlikely. Could you ever confuse or have any doubt about the origin of these two images? It's often quite explicit.

Incidences such as this one lead me to believe that they are not an amalgamation of subconscious elements either. If that were the case, I would expect pop culture icons and themes to appear much more frequently such as celebrities, cartoon/video game characters, etc...but this is not the case. I know that you say you have encountered people from your past, and I have heard some others say that as well, but I've never had that experience.

Very nice thoughts, indeed.

 

[RAM]

I find this possibility to be unlikely. Could you ever confuse or have any doubt about the origin of these two images? It's often quite explicit.

Very true, Global! Personally I would not likely confuse the two. What I was partially getting at is the possibility that you could be shown Egyptian elements (let's say), but your memory or even original perspective of the experience is distorted. Let's say you interpret what you are seeing as Egyptian, does this immediately mean that you are 100% seeing Egyptian elements, as in elements from the Egyptian civilization that formed on Earth?

And if that is in fact the case, why would these elements pop up? Some possibilities I can think of are that the Egyptians used whatever entheogens they had to leave an impression on hyperspace, the elements are buried deep within our own minds/memories and are popping up in the DMT experience, the elements are common to the human psyche somehow and just coincidentally pop up in both the experience as well as architecturally in Egyptian civilization, or finally that as I mentioned in my original post the Egyptian elements are common throughout the universe and are somehow being broadcasted/shown to us.

Just because a message is clear does not mean it is true. It is difficult, if not impossible, to escape the spectre of misinterpretation of the subjective experience!

 

[Psybin]

I find this possibility to be unlikely. Could you ever confuse or have any doubt about the origin of these two images? It's often quite explicit.

Very true, Global! Personally I would not likely confuse the two. What I was partially getting at is the possibility that you could be shown Egyptian elements (let's say), but your memory or even original perspective of the experience is distorted. Let's say you interpret what you are seeing as Egyptian, does this immediately mean that you are 100% seeing Egyptian elements, as in elements from the Egyptian civilization that formed on Earth?

And if that is in fact the case, why would these elements pop up? Some possibilities I can think of are that the Egyptians used whatever entheogens they had to leave an impression on hyperspace, the elements are buried deep within our own minds/memories and are popping up in the DMT experience, the elements are common to the human psyche somehow and just coincidentally pop up in both the experience as well as architecturally in Egyptian civilization, or finally that as I mentioned in my original post the Egyptian elements are common throughout the universe and are somehow being broadcasted/shown to us.

Just because a message is clear does not mean it is true. It is difficult, if not impossible, to escape the spectre of misinterpretation of the subjective experience!

I find it strange that no one has suggested the alternative (probable) possibility that Egyptians and other cultures architecture, art, religion, etc. reflects hyperspace because the people who created them journeyed to hyperspace. It isn't that surprising that mescaline tends to paint imagery of aztec and mayan patterns and desert iconography, nor that mushrooms should present unique imagery and style/motif as the remnants of the cultures that utilized it and were inspired by/founded upon it.

It just so happens that dmt and harmalas (well at least tryptamines and harmalas) are widespread globally such that Islam, Egyptian culture, Aztec/Mayan/Incan, aboriginal, etc. cultures have all utilized them and are inspired by them. Therefore when you experience arabic script or aztec glyphs in hyperspace, one can say one is gazing upon similar vistas as the ancients.

 

[RAM]

Therefore when you experience arabic script or aztec glyphs in hyperspace, one can say one is gazing upon similar vistas as the ancients.

Awesome perspective! Maybe it is up to our generation to implement some of the technological/alien/artificial intelligence visions we so commonly receive in hyperspace.

 

[DeltaSpice]

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with the subconscious mind.
Before I had ever broken through I read up on trip reports and I recall reading about The Dome and its mechanical walls.
For some reason I took this to mean electronic walls, walls with electrical panels and piping .
So as I had read through these reports I had misunderstood what was written and my minds eye painted a false picture, a picture I can still see now.
When I broke through I found myself in a green a white place with moving walls, things shutting and parts spinning.
Afterwards I realised that that was the mechanical place I had read about and not as I'd thought it to be, as in electronic.

So for me this proves that what I think or know does not influence hyperspace.

 

[Global]

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with the subconscious mind.
Before I had ever broken through I read up on trip reports and I recall reading about The Dome and its mechanical walls.
For some reason I took this to mean electronic walls, walls with electrical panels and piping .
So as I had read through these reports I had misunderstood what was written and my minds eye painted a false picture, a picture I can still see now.
When I broke through I found myself in a green a white place with moving walls, things shutting and parts spinning.
Afterwards I realised that that was the mechanical place I had read about and not as I'd thought it to be, as in electronic.

So for me this proves that what I think or know does not influence hyperspace.

In my Ganesha: The DMT Initiator thread, out of the 30 different people who independently encountered Ganesha in context specific and meaningful manners, I would venture that the majority of them were either previously unaware that Ganesha even existed or that such phenomena were even possible on DMT, let alone that they all encountered her under the conditions of initiation of some sort.

Very true, Global! Personally I would not likely confuse the two. What I was partially getting at is the possibility that you could be shown Egyptian elements (let's say), but your memory or even original perspective of the experience is distorted. Let's say you interpret what you are seeing as Egyptian, does this immediately mean that you are 100% seeing Egyptian elements, as in elements from the Egyptian civilization that formed on Earth?

I have no doubt that memory of the experience is distorted. In fact, I just read a psychology article the other day that insisted that usually when we remember, we are just remembering the last time we remembered and not the event itself (memory of which was based on expectations in the first place), so there's no doubt that memory is distorted. The original perspective would be more clear, but of course there is always room for misinterpretation. Very often I would see Egyptian elements in conjunction with more typical DMT elements. My very last DMT experience included a triple open eyed holographic display where the left third of the room had filled with carnival DMT stuff, the middle was Hindu and the right was Egyptian (I could easily be mixing up the order).

And if that is in fact the case, why would these elements pop up? Some possibilities I can think of are that the Egyptians used whatever entheogens they had to leave an impression on hyperspace, the elements are buried deep within our own minds/memories and are popping up in the DMT experience, the elements are common to the human psyche somehow and just coincidentally pop up in both the experience as well as architecturally in Egyptian civilization, or finally that as I mentioned in my original post the Egyptian elements are common throughout the universe and are somehow being broadcasted/shown to us.

I try to avoid putting my stake in any ontological rationale because heretofore I have yet to find any evidence that would strongly make me feel one way or the other. I have previously contemplated all of those possibilities you mention, and they all seem potentially likely, but they could all also not be true. I would say that it is probably least likely to be coincidence that people commonly encounter the greatest architecture and gods in hyperspace. Let's not forget that it's not merely the buildings and artwork aesthetic that appear, but the characters as well. It cannot be coincidence that these iconic figures are on the walls and texts of these cultures from around the globe, and also happen to be located in hyperspace as well, frequently appearing under context-specific conditions.

 

[DreaMTripper]

It would be interesting to read accounts from people who have been in isolated cultures with no contact with the outside world to see if they also see these common archetypes and structures.

 

[DeltaSpice]

In my Ganesha: The DMT Initiator thread, out of the 30 different people who independently encountered Ganesha in context specific and meaningful manners, I would venture that the majority of them were either previously unaware that Ganesha even existed or that such phenomena were even possible on DMT, let alone that they all encountered her under the conditions of initiation of some sort

That's an interesting thread.
I have for many years had an interest in Beth Nahrain (Ancient Mesopotamia).
I have many books on Sumerian/Assyrian/Babylonian history, culture, beliefs and art work.
Yet there is no sign of it in any of my DMT experiences..

 

[Global]

It would be interesting to read accounts from people who have been in isolated cultures with no contact with the outside world to see if they also see these common archetypes and structures.

My guess is that they probably would, but here's the catch:

When we (westerners) take DMT, we encounter a whole class of recognizable stuff such as cogs/wheels, domes, 8/16 bit sounds, mansions, the cultural themes, etc...We have labels, however poor for these things.

Then there are all the things we see for which we have no words. We tend to label these things as alien. Furthermore, those things which we cannot label become increasingly difficult to keep in memory. Some of the things we see that we don't recognize are spacey-futuristic, some defy category, and then for all we know, we could be seeing a culture that once was on Earth that has evaded documentation.

My point is that my guess is that when people in other cultures (and I'll include certain ayahuasca shamans in this category) take DMT, there will be the things they will recognize and label, and then the things which defy their own ability to categorize. Those will be the elements that seem more supernatural or alien. What we can easily recognize as cogs and gears, as seen in our watches and other mechanical devices, a shaman let's say from 200 years ago would not be able to speak of this particular element to his tribe. It would rank in the ineffable for that culture at that time. For this reason, it would be a particularly tricky task to research because you are essentially asking people to identify that for which they have no words.

 

[darklordsson]

I have a theory that dmt originated in different parts of the world. Each culture found a use for this substance in great mystery. The hieroglyphs and art tell the story of each culture. Some with different beliefs and mystic symbolism. I was told we pave our own roads, but stay open minded to new things. Always open minded. The complicity of different ideas is friendly to me as I see many many different things I can learn from each.

Global, it would make sense that this perception of these things would shock and aw anyone who didn't understand what they were seeing and I am in the same boat too! The complexity of what I perceive under dmt is beyond any limitations, even with an intelligent culture building worldwide, we still don't understand this mystic phenomenon. Its a tough one for sure.