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Why can't i be a simple, happy christian?

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obliguhl

obliguhl

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I've been a christian for the first 11 years of my life. I kind of inherited it, like many others before. I've thought about the meaning of life a lot as a child and it was fascinating, to read "The truth" in a book. My faith got weaker over the time because my prayers never got answered and i came to disagree with a lot of things in the bible and found it was contradicting itself over and over again.

Now, some guy always trys to convert me every time he sees me. The thing is, he is genuinely happy about his life and belief. He does not WANT to believe, he BELIEVES. It is amazing to see him radiating this positive energy and it's something you can very rarely sense in people. And yes, i've been to many services and i have noticed, that the sense of community is very great in some instances. A very emotional get together. I then think to myself, why i just can't be a part of it. It's exactly what I'm seeking, while i totally disagree with christian teachings.

I appreciate people believing in things. Admitting that they are believing in something because everybody does. Be it science, religion, dmt spirituality...or that there is nothing you can't really believe in. This truthfulness and authenticity i seek because with it comes great community. I know from firsthand experience that this community can reach far behind the core boundaries. I've always been treated nicely by christians. I certainly know that they want to convert me. But i would also like to see other people finding psychedelics...wo im no different.

But still, it bugs me greatly, that my worldviews are so sanctioned, that community is hard to come by and if at all, exists only virtually for many people.

Let me say this: It's not the same.
 
obliguhl said:
I've been a christian for the first 11 years of my life. I kind of inherited it, like many others before. I've thought about the meaning of life a lot as a child and it was fascinating, to read "The truth" in a book. My faith got weaker over the time because my prayers never got answered and i came to disagree with a lot of things in the bible and found it was contradicting itself over and over again.

Now, some guy always trys to convert me every time he sees me. The thing is, he is genuinely happy about his life and belief. He does not WANT to believe, he BELIEVES. It is amazing to see him radiating this positive energy and it's something you can very rarely sense in people. And yes, i've been to many services and i have noticed, that the sense of community is very great in some instances. A very emotional get together. I then think to myself, why i just can't be a part of it. It's exactly what I'm seeking, while i totally disagree with christian teachings.

I appreciate people believing in things. Admitting that they are believing in something because everybody does. Be it science, religion, dmt spirituality...or that there is nothing you can't really believe in. This truthfulness and authenticity i seek because with it comes great community. I know from firsthand experience that this community can reach far behind the core boundaries. I've always been treated nicely by christians. I certainly know that they want to convert me. But i would also like to see other people finding psychedelics...wo im no different.

But still, it bugs me greatly, that my worldviews are so sanctioned, that community is hard to come by and if at all, exists only virtually for many people.

Let me say this: It's not the same.
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People who evangelize are generally annoying. You could just tell the guy to stop it, and let him know that you would appreciate it if he left you alone with all his zeal.

But you seem torn. You seem like you are tempted to let them convert you simply because you crave the sense of community. If that is so, then you should meditate deeply and follow your heart. There are worse things you could do than hang out with a bunch of smiley faced believer types.

That said, I usually like to bust the bubbles of those people from time to time. When they get on about how their way is the only way etc. etc. I always ask them how they know this to be so... has it actually worked for them? They will inevitably begin to sing the praises of how greatly their life has changed and yadda yadda yadda, at which point I ask them:

"So, then you have witnessed and performed miracles?"

This stumps them cold. "Uh... no. I mean, maybe... uh but what does that have to do..."

I show them where it says that you are not a Christian if you don't have the Holy Spirit. Then I flip to the passages where the evidence of having the Holy Spirit are enumerated.

The Bible clearly states that you will know if you have the Holy Spirit by the signs and wonders. You will be able to heal the sick, cast out demons and devils, trod on serpents and scorpions without being bitten, prophesize, speak in tongues, and even raise the dead. In fact, JC said everything I have done, you too shall do and more. On Pentacost, when the sad sack apostles received the Holy Spirit for the first time, they did all of those things. They stumbled out into the street and began healing people.

The inevitable response is that you don't have to have those signs and wonders to be a Christian. I tell them they are deluding themselves. That they don't have the Holy Spirit yet, is no wonder. But that they don't even believe it is possible puts their entire faith in question. If you don't believe in the power of the Spirit, how can you believe any of it? After all the Bible is filled with unbelievable shit. Giants, dragons, sea monsters, aliens (angels are not from the Earth, thus they are ET... plus they fly around in flaming chariots)...

How on Earth can someone so vehemently tell you that they have the answers when they have no tangible experience that the promises of the Bible are even valid. If you don't believe that someone could sit in a raging fire and not get burned, who are you to be evangelizing?

Obviously, there are quite a few Christians who don't like me all that much. Funny enough, I actually believe in most of the crazy biblical stuff. I just choose to experience it rather than have faith in a poorly translated work of cultural appropriation. Most of the Bible comes directly from Sumerian sources anyway. Not surprising as Abraham's father was a high priest/ idol maker from Ur... in Sumer.

Peace.
 
The reason the guy radiates positive energy is because he is detached from reality.
On the outside it looks great to be like that. When im detached from reality i will be giving off good vibes, because im happy :)

Truth is the only thing i seek in life and blindly following the bible is to deny truth imho.

Religion mindfucks you into believing a bunch of ridiculous stories. Being detached you are more suseptable to bullshit. Like when we are detached through dmt we may believe a vision or knowledge learned in hyperspace to be absolute truth. Of course when we are re-attached to reality. We come to the conclusion that it was just a trip and may be real or not. You cant hold that conviction.

Just my view on the mess called "religion" :)
 
"The Bible clearly states that you will know if you have the Holy Spirit by the signs and wonders. You will be able to heal the sick, cast out demons and devils, trod on serpents and scorpions without being bitten, prophesize, speak in tongues, and even raise the dead. In fact, JC said everything I have done, you too shall do and more. On Pentacost, when the sad sack apostles received the Holy Spirit for the first time, they did all of those things. They stumbled out into the street and began healing people."


Well I'll be damned. Means I'm damn well outdoing JC, cos I'm spinning the Earth round the sun and all the other planets too, I make the leaves grow and I control the tides. Perhaps that's what he meant? Right now I'm dodging bullets faster than Neo, I'm killing off the deserving and I'm springing life into action. See a single bullet around me? That's how good I am at my job.



Let me put it this way. Part of all of what we believe as individuals is a sack of bullshit that others have fed to us to cover their own injustices. The other part of it is the raw truth. This guy believes truly, because he sees the raw truth and the sack of bullshit pales in comparison. His allegiance is not to a construct called "Christianity" but to that which truly gave him life and will soon take it away.

Free yourself of the delusions. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


In the meantime, stop turning water into whine. You will soon come to know that the only reason you accepted the sack of bullshit is because of the darkness in your own soul. Subtlety, subtlety, subtlety. Pay attention.
 
Don't be a Christian, just be true to yourself instead. Stop resisting your desires. Trust yourself, and go with the flow.

-Christianity tends to breed guilt and blocks in people, rather than free them. I used to be a Christian, but gave that up many years ago. I found this site, and find this info some of the best i've ever come across in a long time, regarding spiritual growth. I hope you enjoy it like i do:-

Stop Resisting Your Desires | Calm Down Mind
 
just becasue someone believes in something and radiates that belief does not necessarily mean anything to me. Lots of people believe in christianty, does not mean that they are truely seeing the full picture..especially when they are trying to convert people every time they see them..that is more of a turn off than anything else I think.

Take hitler for example..he believed alot of things enough to act upon them..but belief does not justify everything. There has to be more substance that that IMHO..belief is for those who cannot see.
 
No, i'm not asking the nexus for permission to become a christian again. There is something about the whole culture that troubles me deeply, and i find myself not cut out to be a believer of jesus christ. But hyperspace fool, i have no interest in spoiling other folks way of living. Why would i want to do that? Does it help me? Does it make the world a better place by making people feel less happy?

DeMenTed, what is this reality you are defending? I know that this missionary i'm talking about is firmly rooted in his reality.

To me, christianity is a bunch of ideas more or less coherently strung together used as a simple explanation for something a lot of people experience. And that experience is what I would call "life itself". Something we can all experience during normal and altered states of consciousness. We just have different explanations...christians are not simply deluded if they are serious about it. It all roots in something you can actually experience if you are in tune with life.

And yeah, sure you can explain it with science ...OR ANY OTHER BELIEF.
But that is not thee point. The point is, that i want to be in touch witrh people who are authentic, doing things together. This state of being together can only rarely be found outside of very close friendship or religion.
 
obliguhl said:
But hyperspace fool, i have no interest in spoiling other folks way of living. Why would i want to do that? Does it help me? Does it make the world a better place by making people feel less happy?
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It can be fun.

And, meanwhile... it might actually do the other person a bit of good. If by demonstrating the folly of their logic you can influence someone to stop wasting their time with something, it could be worth the effort.

No Miracles = No Holy Ghost = Not Christian

Christ himself is even more hardcore... he says when such people get to Heaven he will tell them he doesn't even know who they are. He even turned away his own MOTHER... the saintly Virgin Mary herself!

If Mother Mary wasn't good enough to get JC's seal of approval, what makes all these millions of people think they will fare better. Especially when they basically ignore everything he ever said.

"Do not worship graven images"

Go into any church and what is the first thing you see... a fricking idol. Of a bloody and battered JC rebranded as a European no less. I'm sure he absolutely loves that.
 
You have very interesting points and it reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife on the way home from this weekends aya session.

I wish it were possible for us nexians to find way's to get together and hang out. I think you, and I, and many others for that matter, could find the close nit group of authentic people right here in our community...but as you said it's not the same virtual. Sure I feel like I know a lot of you...but in reality I don't. I know your online persona and that's it.

I suppose this is sorta of derailing your original point of why you can't be a good christian, but I wonder is it possible for us nexians to find way's of getting together? I know a group goes to burning man and what not, but what about something simpler like psychedelic meet and greats so to speak? Norml does this a lot so why not us? I mean if we didn't divulge our online id's then technically our anonymity would be unbroken. It would be awesome to get together with other nexians for diner on occasion and discuss the kinds of things only we at the nexus discuss...but in real time over a beer or two. Maybe get groups together for concerts etc. I feel essentially the same void you do. At my age I don't find many people that are interested in the things I am.

I feel your pain on the community and wanting to be with authentic people. But I'd bet anything that you won't 'really' find it in the church. At least not unless you can learn to fully be engaged in their beliefs. But if you plan to fake those beliefs so you can enjoy the community...well I think you already know in your heart that won't really work.
 
I know how you feel obliguhl. I have grown up in a very christian family, and still go to church every Sunday. Heck, I'm even actively involved. Some of the people who go there are just so kind hearted, and truly awesome, so they deserve respect even though their "truth" differs from our own.

The thing is, people have to find what works for them. I think if someone chooses to live a christian life, even though they may not have special powers imbued by the holy spirit, if they are a good person at heart, no one has any place to judge them. Over the years, I have found what works for me: psychedelics work for me, nature works for me, meditation works for me, and a big part of the christian faith and community WORKS FOR ME. All of this combines to make me a better person every single day, so no one who is of any other faith or non-faith should judge me for DOING WHAT MAKES ME A BETTER HUMAN. You have your own path to find out.

When your at church, discuss matters of christianity with the christian community. When your're tripping your bawls off, discuss matters of hyperspace entities with your fellow travelers. When your watching football (if you do) discuss it with your fellow fans. There are places and times to discuss all parts of your truth. Just because you can't do it all in one place at one time, doesn't mean they can't fit together in YOU.

I am spiritual, and everyone should strive to be spiritual. Spirituality has no definition and no set means of getting there. My religion is a mosh-gobbled-hob-knobbed-thrown-together-conglamouration of every psychedelic, christian, sinful, and natural experience that has ever happened in my life. Let your cater to you.

P.S. Joedirt, that would be really awesome. "Nexus: A picnic in Hyperspace" :d
 
Are you asking why you can't be a christian or why you can't be simple?

I feel unfit to make judgements about religion, but i can say that if you ask yourself why you can't be a simple being, you're probably not a simple being. If you're not a simple being, that's just the way it is. Trying to be simple won't work.

Simplicity is generally overrated btw. Simple people are seldom blamed of anything, but that's not because they don't have issues with guilt like the rest of the world.
 
I also met such Christians in my life... I couldn't find any mistake in them. It was so good to be in their company. But after a while, I felt I don't really belong there. I just took, and couldn't give anything - at least not as cleanly as they did - so I left.

Perhaps I'll go again when I grow old.
 
just becasue someone believes in something and radiates that belief does not necessarily mean anything to me. Lots of people believe in christianty, does not mean that they are truely seeing the full picture..especially when they are trying to convert people every time they see them..that is more of a turn off than anything else I think.

Take hitler for example..he believed alot of things enough to act upon them..but belief does not justify everything. There has to be more substance that that IMHO..belief is for those who cannot see.
 
DeMenTed, what is this reality you are defending? I know that this missionary i'm talking about is firmly rooted in his reality.

Yeah he is firmly rooted in his reality. When i'am immersed in hyperspace im firmly rooted in that reality too.

What im saying is that believing something that has no proof is naive at best and stupidity at worst.
 
obliguhl said:
christians are not simply deluded if they are serious about it. It all roots in something you can actually experience if you are in tune with life.
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I disagree. Most christians i encounter show huge symptoms of delusion..i mean i'm sure we all do to some extent, but many of these people swallow the religion they were born into hook line and sinker, engage in 0 critical thinking.. warp all information by ignoring the things which contradict their worldview while only looking only at that which can conveniently fit into and support their belief system.. and many of these people haven't even read the bible! It's astonishing how some people can believe something so blindly, about the meaning of life and the universe no less, that they never even bother to look into it themselves. thinking for yourself isn't very popular these days, so they'd rather have someone else do their thinking for them.

And most of those who are well educated about their belief system that i talk to still constantly engage in hypocritical behavior everyday..many even take a 'holier than thou' attitude and of course try and convert you without ever really thinking about what YOU have to say.. Even though many are certainly nice people, i can't stand to be around someone who can be so closed minded that they think they need to save my soul.. Thats not the type of community i'd ever like to be a part of again. i found church-the few times i went as a kid-stuffy, artificial, constipated, boring, devoid of laughter, and for the most part just a bunch of hypocritical nonsense. It was perhaps a good message that got warped over thousands of years by those in power.. I'd rather be with friends and loved ones who understand and accept you for who you are and don't try to change you, and find more like minded folks at the nexus, local events/festivals/concerts because that is 1000x more real and enjoyable that anything any church could ever offer me


in regards to the "it all roots in something you can actually experience if you are in tune with life" part.. i think christianity, and many religions, have their roots in some sort of system that involved a kind of 'direct experience' that manifested what they considered contact with whatever constituted as 'divine' for them..most of it seems to be techniques for accessing the less active right brain..but now christianity seems very far removed from anything even remotely resembling that..its not based on direct experience at all. just blind faith
 
I just want to add that despite the obvious kick I get sometimes out of challenging Christians to think, I have a lot of respect for some of them.

A certain small percentage of Christians actually try to walk the walk. You see such people feeding the homeless, caring for the sick & needy... giving a sincere welcome to people who have no where else to go. I do not discourage this. I promote it. You don't have to be Christian to be a good person though... and most Christians are not necessarily good people.

If the next word out of you mouth after G*D is guns... you are not even close to a Christian.

I currently live near a seminary where the most hardcore types of Christians tend to be drawn. I meet these people regularly, and am inevitably evangelized to. While my glee at rocking their boats a bit started when I was a young pre-teen, it has become more refined here due to the regularity of people preaching at me.

I figure if someone approaches me... or G*D forbid knocks on MY door, then it is well within my rights to turn the situation around and hit them with my beliefs as well. After all, I am not interrupting THEIR lives to disavow them of their ridiculous conceptions.

Though that might be fun. Going door to door to preach the ridiculousness of the Christian worldview... heheheh

Nah. Couldn't be bothered. It would become boring rather fast anyway.

ANYWAY. Let me just say that people who are really filled with spirit are a joy to be around. I absolutely love going into gospel churches. Few Christians are more exciting to be near. When they start shaking and testifying... singing from the soles of their feet... man. Any expression of love for G*D that makes me wanna jump out of my seat and gives me chills is a worthy thing IMO.
 
obliguhl said:
And yes, i've been to many services and i have noticed, that the sense of community is very great in some instances. A very emotional get together. I then think to myself, why i just can't be a part of it. It's exactly what I'm seeking, while i totally disagree with christian teachings.
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This is exactly it for me. I was raised Catholic, and had it forced on me. Not only did I not want to go to church (as most kids) but I really didn't feel right about the whole religion. And the more questions I asked, the more uncomfortable I made people. They couldn't explain it to me. I got a lot of talk about faith and believing, that some things can't be explained. But I could see from early on that it was more than that, it was blatant lies and hypocrisy, that's what was really bothering me.

I really did want to belong to a community. To fit in. I still do. But I have yet to find those people. The people that speak the same language, that I can really connect with (apart from places like this ;) ) I think there are a lot of people like you and I who don't really feel right about it, but go along with it anyhow just to be a part of that community. To fit in. It's sad, really. You should find your own path, the one that feels right for you, even if that takes half of your life feeling like an outcast and being lonely sometimes.

Hyperspace Fool said:
ANYWAY. Let me just say that people who are really filled with spirit are a joy to be around. I absolutely love going into gospel churches. Few Christians are more exciting to be near. When they start shaking and testifying... singing from the soles of their feet... man. Any expression of love for G*D that makes me wanna jump out of my seat and gives me chills is a worthy thing IMO.
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That energy, it's really infectious, isn't it? :D That's the only time I really had fun in a church. But I've always loved music, so it really drew me in. That said, the notes, the music, the energy, that was right. But the message, the lyrics, the core of it, was still wrong to my ears.
 
Just quit being a fkn christian, obli. You know they're all a bunch of lyers. Their whole idealogy is based on pure ignorance.
 
kyrolima said:
Just quit being a fkn christian, obli. You know they're all a bunch of lyers. Their whole idealogy is based on pure ignorance.
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Hey now, this is too steep!

Ignorance is saying that christianitys idealogy is based on pure ignorance.

Even if there have been alterations made to the bible etc. if it suits some people then that's great. You can't say it's all ignorance just because it's idealogy doesn't suit you.

Obliguhl, isn't it obvious that you should follow your own path? If you feel like being a christian then be, but if it doesn't suit you(which seems to be the case) then you shouldn't be a christian, simple.
 
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