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Why is DMT in plants?

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DreaMTripper

DreaMTripper

Rising Star
After discovering this intriguing molecule and its effects on humans ive become very curious as to why its here in the firstplace. Does it have a primary function in the plants? How could such a human compatible substance be present in our non-direct environment? More so why. Was it placed here by a higher power for us to use to enable us to expand our conciousness or it just a metaphor of our own existence? Here by chance? Or is it another byproduct of our galactic position as in it MUST be here?
 
Well, naturally occurring entheogens actually have some mysticism surrounding their origin. The peyote cactus is believed to have been sent down from the divine directly to a single mountain top in the form of the "Fabled white peyote" : Native American Church - Wikipedia Interestingly enough, study of the origin of the peyote species traces it back to a high-altitude variation that contained an extraordinarily higher amount of mescaline then today's cacti... the wikipedia article there talks about this, and it also discusses the find of a fossilized button of this peyote that still, after being dead for an extremely long time, contained more mescaline then today's standard peyote cacti. Enthnobotanical evolutionary studies have contemplated whether or not enthoegens evolved alongside of human consciousness. These sacred entheogens are quite mystical in their origins and personally I believe that there must be some sort of divine connection here, whether it be in where they came from or in their more obvious means of showing us just how similar we are to our natural environment.
 
---> As for a more physicalist explanation of the reason DMT and other entheogens are found in plants is that many of these chemicals, for example, mescaline, DMT and ibogaine all have some degree of antibiotic properties. That is, it is quite possible that these plants simply evolved to have these chemicals because they ward off bacterial infection.
 
I voted "other" because there are so many other psychoactive substances. Are there here 'by chance' or 'on purpose' ? Purpose implicate an external will, wanting to achieve an aim... I can't believe that. But "chance" seems too restrictive to represent the genius structure of the universe. The fact that the DMT produce awesome and enlighting experiences does not mean it is here on purpose. Chocolate (theobromine) or cafeine are also some kind of psychoactive substances after all. Purpose or chance ? Ah, who cares ;) ?! If there is a purpose, it is on the activated system, not in the activation substance IMO.
 
I can't belive for one moment that DMT is not there on purpose. It is just that the purpose the plant makes DMT and our purpose of interest in DMT are totally different. Alkaloids are produced by plants as a defence mechanism, they are bitter to taste and often poisonous. A plant, like every other living organism, is not going to grow through evolution to waste energy and effort on anything other than succsefull survival and reproduction. We as a speices have managed to overcome some of the plant worlds defence mechanisms which is why eatting things such as tomatoes and lettice isn't going to kill us. Other alkloids, through human ingenuity, have been utalized to suit our needs. DMT is just one of a very great number that fall into that group. I'd thank God that I've been given the ability to enjoy various alkloids, but I dont belive in him either.
 
Why is it assumed that the "plants" did it, or "aliens" did it, or whatever? Why not US? How about: HUMANS evolved to use DMT and psilocybin? This seems far more realistic and scientific than any other possibility.
 
mm, just a thought, not entirely related. As the tryptamine family is closely related to serotonin, a neurotransmitter in the human brain, in the bufo toads, is the bufotonin simply a toxin to ward off predators, or is it an intrinsic part of the toads mind? if it is, then maybe this could be used as a basis for claiming that plants have a consciousness of somekind, with the dmt/mescaling/psilocybin or whatever being their own versions of serotonin... not my belief personaly, just throwing it out there.
 
Well Smelly in response to your post, regarding plants having a consciousness. I have read of scientific experiments being performed on plants, where an instrument such/similar to a lie detector machine, where a needle jumps up and down on response to frequencies felt and draws out the signal is attached to something(usually human). The connectors are attached to the plant in this case and various tests are performed. The tests range from igniting a lighter and moving it toward the plant, before the flame even got close enough to burn the plant the needles responded jumping up and down and drawing out signal much the way a human would respond if it were attached and nervous/scared. The closer the flame got the more the needles moved. Further tests were performed where 2 plants were in a room side by side both attached to a device, one person entered the room and viciously killed and tore apart one of the plants, the other plants needle witnessing this started to jump around. Further more once the person that killed the plant left the room and went to fetch the research assistant, they worked out that when the research assistant who hadn't killed the plant or been in the room at the time walked back into the room, there was no reponse from the surviving witness plant. But as the other man who killed the 1st plant in front of the 2nd plant walked back into the room and close to the plant, the needles responded very strongly jumping up and down. Plants conciousness?
Will we get to the point where someone could be convicted of killing a man by a tesimony of similar sorts, where in a plant in the room witnessing the murder of a man might respond in the presence of that same man again in court?
This information was read from Linda Goodman - Star Signs cant remember which chapter.
 
Shane237 said:
Well Smelly in response to your post, regarding plants having a consciousness. I have read of scientific experiments being performed on plants, where an instrument such/similar to a lie detector machine, where a needle jumps up and down on response to frequencies felt and draws out the signal is attached to something(usually human). The connectors are attached to the plant in this case and various tests are performed. The tests range from igniting a lighter and moving it toward the plant, before the flame even got close enough to burn the plant the needles responded jumping up and down and drawing out signal much the way a human would respond if it were attached and nervous/scared. The closer the flame got the more the needles moved. Further tests were performed where 2 plants were in a room side by side both attached to a device, one person entered the room and viciously killed and tore apart one of the plants, the other plants needle witnessing this started to jump around. Further more once the person that killed the plant left the room and went to fetch the research assistant, they worked out that when the research assistant who hadn't killed the plant or been in the room at the time walked back into the room, there was no reponse from the surviving witness plant. But as the other man who killed the 1st plant in front of the 2nd plant walked back into the room and close to the plant, the needles responded very strongly jumping up and down. Plants conciousness?
Will we get to the point where someone could be convicted of killing a man by a tesimony of similar sorts, where in a plant in the room witnessing the murder of a man might respond in the presence of that same man again in court?
This information was read from Linda Goodman - Star Signs cant remember which chapter.
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting you, but where are the links to this? It sounds utterly fascinating. Something which I would love to read.
 
the_newcomer said:
Shane237 said:
Well Smelly in response to your post, regarding plants having a consciousness. I have read of scientific experiments being performed on plants, where an instrument such/similar to a lie detector machine, where a needle jumps up and down on response to frequencies felt and draws out the signal is attached to something(usually human). The connectors are attached to the plant in this case and various tests are performed. The tests range from igniting a lighter and moving it toward the plant, before the flame even got close enough to burn the plant the needles responded jumping up and down and drawing out signal much the way a human would respond if it were attached and nervous/scared. The closer the flame got the more the needles moved. Further tests were performed where 2 plants were in a room side by side both attached to a device, one person entered the room and viciously killed and tore apart one of the plants, the other plants needle witnessing this started to jump around. Further more once the person that killed the plant left the room and went to fetch the research assistant, they worked out that when the research assistant who hadn't killed the plant or been in the room at the time walked back into the room, there was no reponse from the surviving witness plant. But as the other man who killed the 1st plant in front of the 2nd plant walked back into the room and close to the plant, the needles responded very strongly jumping up and down. Plants conciousness?
Will we get to the point where someone could be convicted of killing a man by a tesimony of similar sorts, where in a plant in the room witnessing the murder of a man might respond in the presence of that same man again in court?
This information was read from Linda Goodman - Star Signs cant remember which chapter.
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting you, but where are the links to this? It sounds utterly fascinating. Something which I would love to read.
Click to expand...


Some interesting links and reading about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The-Secret-Life-of-Plants
About 25 mins into the film is some experiments done by Cleve Baxter.
 
plants don't have a nervous system. they don't have a concioussness in the way we would think of our consiouss. plants have a lot of ways of detecting chemicals and environmental conditions and just because they let out some kind of frequencies when being exposed to stimuli doesnt answer much of anything.

alkaloids exist in plants for a number of reasons but the main one being its way to interact with the outside world. plants cant run away from predators and sometimes they need animals to transport their seed. alkaloids and other secondary metabolites are a way of doing this. these interactions are really complex.

also look at it like this there are hundreds of alkaloids sometimes in plants. most of them we either dont know what they do or they dont do anything. i think one method of evolution is to produce diverse amounts of secondary metabolites with minimal limitation on plant growth and reproduction, and the ones that prove advantageous are retained.

the fact that dmt is all over the plant kingdom is simply because its such a simple molecule for plants to make and the genes either evolved separately because its a rather simple few chemical conversions to make dmt or they had some source way back in the plant kingdom, i wouldnt know i never studied the issue in depth. perhaps organisms without monoamine oxide are deterred by the DMT in plants. i dont know if this would be the case with insects. the fact that it interacts with our brain so profoundly is an evolutionary coincidence or a coevolutionary process or both. which doesnt make the experience any less meaningful or scientifically interesting.
 
you know, it's speculated sometimes why something occurs in a plant or whatnot, right?

for example, recin, does this molecule help the plant biofunctions? or does the plant produce this knowing it's a poison.

do fruits produce sugar because they have a high input of energy and plant with high energy can produce more sugars, especially so in the fruit? or is it because animals like the sweet fruits and spread the seeds more easily.

maybe psychedelics in plants have different purposes, maybe they can ward off infection, and also attract people to grow them and plant them, and so it ended up a wise choice in selection. It's been said selection is random, so if it was so, a molecule randomly selected genetically, would be kept along in evolution if it helped the plant produce more.

why is dmt in plants? who knows, it's said to be in everything, from assumption mostly I think. But if so it could just be a simple alkaloid, many plants have vitamins and tryosine and tryptophan. dmt could just be another trypamine analogue.

why do our brains utilize it? who knows, there's some biological reason, it's be nice to know, but I don't think anyone does now.
 
In his World Psychedelic forum talk Dennis McKenna loosely speculates that DMT may be produced by all plants in trace ammounts. Made me smile:) I have wondered the same thing about shrooms and psilocybin.
 
To be extracted and smoke by coureageous hippies, such as we. No really, ever heard about the plant physiology? Or the Plant Physiology journal, edited by whoever?
 
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