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Why purge?

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Philosopher

Philosopher

Rising Star
After ingesting ayahuasca or mushrooms, sometimes even lsd we may purge. Is this a physiological response to the alkaloid or possibly just from the nausea and taste combination? Could it even be a psychological response? Maybe the shifting of consciousness is like going on a roller coaster and you just sometimes become sick or dizzy. Any comments? This is under the health section because I am wondering if anyone knows exactly what mechanisms in the body cause our purge from psychdelics and if this is harmful in any way. Also maybe comment something that helps with the nausea, I use ginger in my shroom tea.
 
Tricky question. It's simply based on you perception of what the purge is doing.

It's something that isn't fully understood universally. Take it as you will.
 
Philosopher said:
After ingesting ayahuasca or mushrooms, sometimes even lsd we may purge. Is this a physiological response to the alkaloid or possibly just from the nausea and taste combination? Could it even be a psychological response? Maybe the shifting of consciousness is like going on a roller coaster and you just sometimes become sick or dizzy. Any comments? This is under the health section because I am wondering if anyone knows exactly what mechanisms in the body cause our purge from psychdelics and if this is harmful in any way. Also maybe comment something that helps with the nausea, I use ginger in my shroom tea.
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The nausea from ayahuasca, mushrooms, LSD and even DMT (on occasion) can all potentially be rooted in different causes. In the case of ayahuasca, both harmalas and oral DMT can be nauseating, so combining them is a double whammy. In the case of pharmahuasca, when not taken in a salt form, DMT freebase is very basic (alkaline) and this apparently disturbs the acidic environment in the stomach. It's unlikely that taste would have much to do with it, especially in the case of LSD (as it's tasteless) but even with ayahuasca, the nausea tends a certain period following the brew (usually 40-60 min for me) which makes me doubt that it has to do with the taste (although in the case of syrian rue, smelling and tasting it makes me gag).

While I don't think it's a psychological response, I do believe that there are psychological underpinnings. Following the purge, I have felt internally cleansed (yet disoriented :lol: ). Apparently most of the neurotransmitters found in the brain are also found in the gut. Perhaps disturbing the balance of neurotransmitters causes this gastrointestinal reaction?
 
Throwing up in Mexico from Dr. Andrew Weil's The Marriage of the Sun and Moon: A Quest for Unity in Consciousness

books.google.com

The Marriage of the Sun and Moon

From the great popularizer of alternative medicine, here is a collection of essays about his travels to South America in the early 1970s in search of information on altered states of consciousness, drug use in other cultures, and other matters having to do with the complementarity of mind and...
books.google.com



The entire book is very worthwhile reading. :thumb_up:
 
Truthfully, I am afraid of vomiting. Always have been. I think I can get over that fear after that reading and if I ingest hallucinogens and feel I must purge, I won't resist.
 
I think that the purge is not just physical but also metaphysical. One guy I used to follow on the internet said that the body begins to resonate with higher dimensional vibrations. I believe that it is Karmic Darkness being removed from the energetic body as well the physical sickness of the body.
 
I have only purged 3 times on cactus/mescaline and have taken it around 30 times.

I have never purged on anything else but Aya that was made with MHRB and had a lot of tannins.

Not counting alcohol, which has given me a metaphysical type purge before, unexpectedly at that,
 
All the above mentioned substances have an effect on how your body deals with serotonin. Serotonin has many busniess contacts in your gut.

On consulting the holy wiki:

Serotonin is an important signaling molecule in the gastrointestinal (GI) system, where it functions to initiate gut motility, allow the stomach to expand, and transmit information to the CNS.[1] Drugs that either block (antagonists) or stimulate (agonists) specific serotonin receptor subtypes in the gut have been approved for certain GI disorders; examples include tegaserod (Zelnorm), granisetron (Kytril), ondansetron (Zofran), and alosetron (Lotronex). Tegaserod is a partial agonist of the 5-HT(4) receptor and is approved for treatment of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) and chronic constipation. Granisetron and ondansetron are used in treating nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy. Alosetron is used in the treatment of IBS with diarrhea. Serotonin also plays a role in the stomach, where it acts on 5-HT(1) receptors to allow the stomach to expand.
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I don't consider the nausea initiated by undesirable flavours to be a true purge. I believe a true purge is a repsonse to the consumed substance's effect on your biochemical makeup.
 
IMO alot of what people concider to be the purge with ayahuasca is just irritation from tannins and plant materials and has no real benificial outcome. I have purged with sublingual pharma and it was just as satisfying as with ayahuasca, only with sediment rich ayahuasca brews purging can at times does not relieve me at all. I will just feel toxic and gross and dry heave with horrible nausea.

Take lots of pure harmalas and you will purge a lot anyway with the extra tannin nausea to add on top of that.

The true purge comes from the alkaloids in my opinion. This just comes from my experience drinking ayahuasca many many times and then working with ayahuasca analogues as well, and then experimenting with pharma and sublingual pharma. All of them can make me purge but if there is a lot fo extra plant stuff in there the purge just does not feel as "cleaning".

IME the best preperations that make me feel the most cleansed aftera purge with the cleanest visionary startes etc is NOT the traditional preperations. It is also NOT pure single alkaloids..it is something in between. Full spectrum plant extractions with tannins etc cleaned up. Pure enough so I could dose it as a tincture if I want to but still full spectrum and maybe some plant oils still there etc..

I have had traditional brews that would not let me stop vomiting for hours and hours, with no break from the nausea in between. I never felt any more cleansed though afterwords than I did when I purged with sublingual pharma once. The difference was there was no nausea with the sublingual really..just a moment where I knew it was comming, I purged and then felt really good after.

I know people that purge every single time they smoke DMT.

I know that many people are int plant spirits and I am too..I just think that in the case of these medicines the spirit communication happens via the alkaloids the plant contains. Not from tannins or fats..and if I was wrong here shamans would be simply eating handfuls of caapi sawdust with chacruna leaf etc...they do crude extractions for a reason. There is a point where something is lost IMO, but it has to do with loosing the alkaloid ratio.
 
Both psychological and physical effects play into nausea. Even when incredibly nauseated I can usually retain composure through sheer will and meditation. I try never to purge becuase if you purge before fully digesting the substance you dont experience the full effects with most substances. LSD doesnt really matter because you dont have to absorb that in the stomach/intestine, but others that do go through digestion like mushrooms, aya, or mescaline the experience will be weakened if it hasnt been absorbed.
 
Philosopher said:
Truthfully, I am afraid of vomiting. Always have been. I think I can get over that fear after that reading and if I ingest hallucinogens and feel I must purge, I won't resist.
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I used to share this feeling. I used to HATE vomiting and first few times I resisted the purge with every fiber in my body. When the moment of purging approached my body tried to keep it in, which only made the nausea worse.

But after the first two or three times it becomes easier, and after a while feel like purging if you go several months without. In times of emotional distress this desire is more present. If I do purge after consuming rue or ayahuasca the distress usually subsides.
 
Thanks void. Yeah I've tried very hard not to purge on a higher dose of shrooms. And I just felt sick and deathly ill the remainder of the trip. Which made for a bad trip and not much learning. I think I will try to get over my fear. I just have to give in. Don't control it. Just like the psychological part you must not resist physically either.
 
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