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World Population

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Aegle

Aegle

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I stumbled upon this fascinating website: Optimum Population

I'm really keen to get a discussion going about the statistics on this site and to hear other peoples views and opinions about this issue. I have personally been very concerned about our population issue as it affects all of us and the animals and plants on our planet. What could be some of the solutions to this radically growing problem? This issue also affects our environment and our earth, if we want to save it we will have to come up with constructive ways to deal with our population explosion and its only growing more and more every day sadly...


Much Peace and Sunshine
 
This is actually my number one political concern, as it is the most important figure any human with their mind on the future can think about. Every problem caused by humans multiplies as this number goes up and that's all there is to it.

I've been thinking about this so much in the last 3-4 years or so. It's such a mess with as far as I can see, no way out other than outer space which is a whole other issue in itself. We can't wait until there comes a time we can colonise other planets, but the very concept of population control is such a large infringement of human rights. Even when such measures have been enforced the consequences have been far from productive i.e. China. But then again the issue with Chinas attempt at population control was largely a cultural factor.

So much to be said about this here and I'm just rambling now. Good thread though :)
 
well one of the only things that i can think of to correct this issue is...well...you guessed it...Hyperspace

i know this is very far fetched but if you think about it simply its pretty understandable...we will think about it like the radio frequencies we use everyday..we have cell phones HD tv..satellites...WiFi...you get the picture...anyway...there are some frequencies that the government, or whoever, dont allow us to use...and this is true...every once and awhile if more 'space' for information is needed...they open up new frequencies to the public..

so...for us to go to hyperspace(our civilization) we need to make sure we understand what it is to love our fellow man...or basically humanity has to experience an ego death...and then breakthrough into hyperspace..but all of this needs to be controlled..and slowly released..thats why we are being put in this situation..if you look at the internet from far away..you will see a lot of people getting together and crossing bridges of race, religion, culture and so on...you find places like this where..yes we do have our spats here and there..but mostly this place is super friendly and awesome

most likely we have all had the experience of breaking through into some sort of home..with people living in it...ive seen this many many times...well what if the new 'space' was being slowly opened and PROGRAMMED by 'recruits' or psychonauts..

granted i know this is fairly fictional sounding...but just look at the massive increase of people joining the nexus..and the number of people that are likely breaking through into hyperspace around the world...

if anything...the brotherhood(and sisterhood:)) that is formed through these experiences..and the increase in creative awareness..i feel will bring about some of the best ideas there have ever been...we need to put our creative energy into a positive direction and create solutions..

we are all in this together...as a whole...so lets figure this shit out...because i know there is more than enough space in this universe than we could ever possibly think to use
 
It's mostly poor countries where this is a real concern.
In the industrialized world the population mostly rises because of immigration or because people get older.
In china the population only rises because of that last thing.

It's countries like india where the real problem lies. India could have a population of 1700000000 people in 2050. And india is only the size of western europe.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that such a rise in population would ruin india's environment. the country would become almost like one big city. It would be uninhabitable. Scarce water, smog, clogged transportation and immense polution.

In most countries, the emancipation of women is enough though, to significantly alter demographic figure's.
When women are no longer seen as merely breedingmachines and could have education and a career, basically a live themselves, much changes.

And people should stop believing that birthcontrol will get you burning in hell :evil: :evil: :evil: for the rest of eternity.
 
yeah but polytrip, the amount of resources consumed and waste produced by a western person is hundreds of times what the average poor indian is responsible for...

I obviously think that education and intelligent preventive birth control methods are important but I think that it goes beyond mere numbers.. The problem is with the consumerism, the unnecessary waste production, the insuficient recycling, etc etc..

This has to do with the big industries, political decisions and so on, but it also has to do with the individual choices we make.. How much we use electricity, what kind of products and how often we consume, etc.. Just as one example, people who change their cellphone all the time, should think about the 70kgs of waste products generated when making a single cellphone, plus all the C02, energy,etc. Or what about this huge amount of cars weighing hundreds of kilos or even tons, that actually take only 1 person most of the time, etc etc

I think education is the key, as always.. we gotta try to wake people up and make people connect their actions to the consequences, because in the globalized informational world, the products arrive at our doorstep and we form no relation between those products and where they came from, what company we are supporting when getting it, what effects it has, etc.. Same with energy spending, its as if when we use electricity it comes from some unlimited unknown source, or the water..

Lets try to help others realize, but specially lets try to see in our actions how what we do is fucking up the planet or rather helping it
 
soulfood said:
It's such a mess with as far as I can see, no way out other than outer space which is a whole other issue in itself. We can't wait until there comes a time we can colonize other planets,
Click to expand...

Oh Yea, that's what we need to do...spread our overpopulated, use-it-all-up attitude & our egotistical, violent nature out into the universe, so we can use up the natural resources of other planets & destroy them too.:cry:

Before humans try to colonize any other part of the universe, we need to start being human beings...as a whole....instead of Americans-vs-Middle Easterners....or rich-vs-poor....or white-vs-black-vs-yellow-vs-red!!!!

If we can't deal with our involvement on this planet (our home planet), than I can only imagine how we would do much more damage...much, much faster...if we infected another planet with our farked up values...or lack there of.


There is a lot of talk of other life in the universe always being more advanced than us.
But imagine how we would treat another race of beings that were not more technologically advanced than us.
History says we would take control of them, take what we want from them & enslave or destroy them.
Is it really necessary for humans to pollute the entire universe with these values?

It's like a child who throws a fit because he wants 5 chicken strips at dinner time....even though he hasn't even started eating the 2 that he already has on his plate.


God help this reality, if humans start exploring/colonizing the larger universe, before we learn to be respectful of what we consume to meet our "needs", here at home.


WS
 
I agree with most arguments, especially WSaged's point...We don't really deserve another planet at this point, there's no point in colonizing elsewhere because it's only a temporary solution. While technology is great in many ways, it also is very wasteful too.

There's a problem with modern computers that rings similar to our corrupt social system. Many of the old programs written for computers don't work so great with our current computers. It has to do with different programming styles that I won't get into too much......Basically, nobody planned on computers becoming exponentially more powerful and popular and we're at the point now where computers don't really need to be more powerful than they are. People are constantly upgrading their computers and making them faster but you only really need to upgrade if your in a business environment loading massive databases or working with complex graphics. The average user doesn't need a powerhouse computer to run modern programs.

ANYWAY

I think the social systems we have in place are largely "out of place" with modern society. We have the scientific method which is hindered by the financially and religiously driven world. Ironically, it's the scientific method which is keeping us alive and well in an ever growing world. Again, we have the human rights which keep us alive and well, but as a whole is limiting to human species. These ideas and methods might have worked back in the day, but we're constantly patching and mending this system to fit the modern world. To explain better, there is an ever growing population crysis on earth. The only solution to this problem seems to directly violate human rights. Violating human rights is a big "no-no" in terms of societies' point of view.

It's unfortunate, but I think a total overhaul of the social system is in order. How can we do this though, when everybody is clinging to the current system to the death? And what kind of system should go in its place? At the risk of sounding like a "Venus Project" enthusiast, we need to regulate human actions based on what is available on the earth instead of how much money is available. At this point in history this is largely impossible because the financial system is so tightly knit that you'd have to have a ton of money in order to initiate this idea. Otherwise nobody will take it seriously, and very few people would be willing to give up their personal "spot" in society to achieve this idea.
 
There is no doubt that continuous growth of population will have humans facing all sorts of problems.

However, along with the population growth so does innovation. Innovation can possibly counteract and possibly abolish adverse effects from population (over)growth. Education is one thing and possibly the most fundamental one, as endlessness stated.

We can venture on new forms of power (solar, aeolian, geothermal), new ways of generating food, housing, transportation etc etc. Just think about it; at the most basic level, earth is powered up by sun. Sun provides a massive amount of energy to sustain life on earth and only a small fraction of this energy is harvested so as to provide for everything life on earth (including humans) need for survival and growth. In the future innovative strategies may enable us to harvest much more, thus increasing earth's current valency.

The future is pretty much difficult to predict and making prediction based on a single factor (population growth/overgrowth), is going to give a skewed image.

Innovation has helped humans many times in the past. When food was once too scarce to gather and acted as a rate-limiting factor for human population growth, agriculture and farming were innovations that helped us make better use of the current resources leading to a boost in developmental valency. What is going to be next, we can only wonder.
 
WSaged said:
soulfood said:
It's such a mess with as far as I can see, no way out other than outer space which is a whole other issue in itself. We can't wait until there comes a time we can colonize other planets,
Click to expand...

Oh Yea, that's what we need to do...spread our overpopulated, use-it-all-up attitude & our egotistical, violent nature out into the universe, so we can use up the natural resources of other planets & destroy them too.:cry:
Click to expand...

If we can. We will. That's the bottom line. Morals all go out of the window with the fight for survival, I don't like it, but that's a fact.
 
soulfood said:
If we can. We will. That's the bottom line. Morals all go out of the window with the fight for survival, I don't like it, but that's a fact.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the problem.

Unfortunately, if/when this happens you'll need to be able to afford a ticket to that new planet, so at least in the beginning it will just be another way to create a even larger gap between the rich & the poor.
And if the earth is literally all used up at that point, it'll be the people/corporations/governments/etc... who used everything up here, going to a new planet to start over & leaving behind the actual population to deal with the consequences of their money-made-mess.
Much like the economic problems that we are dealing with right now...people who make a reasonable living didn't cause the major problems, but now that there is a problem, the people who caused the problem have been saved from it effecting them & they have now moved on to the next big money making venture...leaving those of us who live by our paychecks, to wallow in the mess they made & if we're lucky maybe we get to give them more money to "help" us out of it.:?


I agree though, when the tech allows this kind of thing to be possible, it's gonna happen in a flash.
I'm just saying how if it's done with the same mentality that is used here on Earth...people use planet, planet dies, people go to new planet...
As apposed to learning to live with the planet & within what it naturally provides, we will literally be infecting the universe with the human disease.
We are actually very much like a cancer in the body of Earth if you think about it.





Man...am I in a grim mood today or what....geeeez:oops:

WS
 
This problem is one of those uncomfortable issue that we'll have to deal with for sure, I think it is reasonable to assume that in the future, the birth rate will have to be controlled (at least temporarily) and we'll have to start using alternative areas to live like more upwards or even in the sea... there are ways forward but they require massive infrastructure changes, for example, if you were starting from scratch, you could build much more efficient cities that have vertical farming and irrigation.. also desert areas should be used for solar power... don't forget though, there is a finite amount of resources as most have pointed out, that lack of resources is partly what controls the balance, the amount of resources determines the amount of resources, no resources no humans, the birth/death rate will be directly influenced by the amount of resources.
 
Yea, Saged, your view is kinda negative, but i agree fully, i actually share the same view, we are a cancer to our planet, and we are growing way too fast.


Here's a good video on the subject.
We can't keep on going at this rate, according to this video it's already too late, it doesn't matter if we change our behavior now or not.

And we all know that we will only change when it's too late already.


Sorry to sound so negative, but that's just the way it is, no matter how shanty fluffy new age you are, it IS negative, we can all find arguments, it is how it is, and it's not looking good.

The positive thing is, we will probably not live long enough to experience what awaits us, that is worldwide over-population.


Well, sorry once again, we can all make the best of it now we still can.


Here's the link BTW, it may sound boring, but it's way interesting.

 
you suggest the way to help deal with overpopulation of the entire planet is to smoke more DMT & live in hyperspace instead?
In the meantime, the problem still continues...:?

...And 20-30 minutes later, when you come down?


WS
 
I agree with WSaged on this one.

This is not our planet, this planet, the Earth belongs to all the creatures, plants and organisms which live here.

We humans selfishly hoard it, and that time will soon come to an end.
 
If people exercise their minds, expansion to other planets will be much closer to us than major damage due to overpopulation on the grand time line. Sadly, people are more enthralled with sex and power than understanding and possibility.
 
Wow thank you so much everyone for all the awesome input, i feel greatly inspired by you all. *Much Love*

Soulfood: I also personally think that over population is one of the most serious issues that we as human beings face today. I hope that it doesn't have to come to that, i am trying my best to stay positive and to every day do the best that i can to create awareness and change within my own life the things that i can personally change to make a difference. Changing the world is where one of my greatest passions in life lies. I wouldn't forgive myself if i didn't try everything that i could until every tree is cut down, all species are extinct and every sea and river is poisoned.

Jorkest: I really like your idea its really proactive and positive, everyone i have come across who has smoked spice it has changed their lives for the better. The spice journey definitely makes you more of a conscious person and aware human being. Spice has opened my eyes to so many things and i have definitely become a stronger person within my mind and each journey i inch closer and closer to my true self and the true nature of my mind and reality. I'm not sure if everyone i know is ready for spice but i definitely think its only a proactive and positive possible puzzle piece solution to this grand and immense issue.

Polytrip: I think that first world countries create more harm when it has got to do with emissions and consummation but I have been to India and one of the greatest problems is over population and the majority of the people there are very poor and suffer greatly. China does extensive harm to our worlds animal populations as well as our endangered species, and the statistics say if the whole world changes its ways it wont make a large enough impact if China is not on board with the change.

Birth control is vital if we really want to make a great difference in the worlds population, women need to be educated indeed as well as up lifted all around the world. Women on a whole need to be treasured once again and revered for their nurturing and healing abilities, and given the respect that they deserve in society definitely.

Endlessness: I completely agree our society needs to stop putting their value in material things as this is not where happiness lies, if people could begin to think what they are buying and why are they buying it and where does it come from it would make huge changes in the world. Education is key with so many of the issues and problems we are facing today, we cant move forward without education for sure. We need to do our best to start our own personal revolutions and to do what we can to stay positive and spread information and help in any way that we can to reinforce positive action.

'Coatl: What methods would you suggest, just curious...

WSaged: i agree with you we need to fix the damage we have done here on our beautiful and special planet, running away wont fix anything it will only transfer the same issues that we have here on earth somewhere else and that's definitely not constructive in any way. Try not to be sad chin up and try stay positive i know its not easy but choosing a positive attitude and working together is the most powerful thing we can do to really try and change our situation.

Jacetea: Something needs to change within our minds and our hearts we need to all realize whats really important in life and its not money that's for sure.

Infundibulum: I like the way you are thinking innovation in using technology in a positive and ground breaking way to really change the way in which we live, there are so many alternatives to create a harmless way of living. I think that to live in harmony with the earth using our amazing and advanced technology is one of the best ways to deal with this awful situation as technology and advancement isn't going any where might as well use it in a constructive and positive way.

lbeing789: I'm really interested on what would you suggest would be the best way to regulate population?

Spiced: Try and stay positive please as we have to, to make our actions work, thank you so much for the link.


Again thank you to everyone who has contributed to this fascinating thread you all are an inspiration.


Much Peace and Compassion
 
Something needs to change within our minds and our hearts we need to all realize whats really important in life and its not money that's for sure.
Click to expand...
I suppose that's another alternative; to somehow properly educate the population, moderation and balance would be key. In a way this has already begun as we educate the youth about global warming and other issues like it. Unfortunately, the education system is far from perfect, and even more unfortunate is that it relies entirely on money from decreasing funding to thrive.
 
A one child per couple rule for the next 100 years would be a great start.

You could have more than 1 child, but if you did, you'd have to pay heavy taxes.

If you adopted then you get tax cuts.
 
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