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Yoga and Psychedelics

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OneIsEros

OneIsEros

Rising Star
In the 1960's, Timothy Leary coined the phrase "set and setting", referring to one's mind set and one's external setting.

All too often, the mind "set" is interpreted passively - be in a good mood, or at best, perhaps have an "intention". Rarely is it interpreted in terms of skillset.

Yet shamanism is a practice based on a variety of skillsets. Drumming, dancing, chanting, singing, and more.

Nick Sand, the inventor of orange sunshine LSD and the most prolific user of smoked/injected DMT in history, in his writings and recorded talks saw this as an issue. He spoke about how active practice was necessary for psychedelic use to reach its highest potential. He said you can just "take them, and take them, and take them", but this reaches a plateau.

This plateau is where Alan Watts said to "hang up the phone", which is a statement that only makes sense in the context of passive, inactive use. A shaman would cock an eyebrow and say, "Then how will I perform my work?". Receiving "messages" is a limited understanding of psychedelic use.

We are currently in what is being called the "psychedelic renaissance", yet medicine does not seem to have moved far beyond the passive model - in clinical settings, psychedelics are being administered to blindfolded subjects who listen to music with headphones on.

I want active, skill-based use to become part of the conversation. My personal practice is anapanasati meditation. It is an excellent practice. However, to use it successfully with psychedelics, some real dedication is necessary. I meditate three hours daily, and have for many years. I can meditate on psychedelics successfully, and it is profound - but most people would find it too challenging. Nick Sand found success with this, by the way.

So, what else can we do? Of course, there are the traditional shamanic practices, usually based on repetitive activity spanning many hours (drumming, dancing, singing, etc.).

I would also like to suggest something else that Sand reported success with - yoga!

I use the term "yoga" to refer not to the more complex history of the word, but just the common Western idea of it - a series of poses and stretches.

Yoga is much more accessible than meditation - it is immediate, it is tangible - the somatic bodily component makes it very available to people. I have done it with success - I spent a full day at a hot yoga studio on LSD and let me tell you, when I walked out of that studio after taking several classes back to back, the world was as pristine as a Pixar animated cartoon. Wow! Totally changed the experience, it was a deep purification process.

There are other things. Qigong, Tai Chi - but the thing I'd like to point to basically is some sort of bodily meditative practice that a person can dive into immediately with psychedelic assistance.

THAT, in my opinion, should be the focus of the next stage in the psychedelic renaissance. Skillset.
 
WOW, I love these guys!

Psychedelic Therapy Center | Medicinal Mindfulness

The Center for Medicinal Mindfulness, based in Boulder, CO, is one of the first legal psychedelic therapy clinics in North America. We have led thousands of
medicinalmindfulness.org medicinalmindfulness.org

"Most in the psychedelic community know the concept of “set and setting,” which refers to having the right mindset and the right setting in which to take psychedelic journeys. But what’s missing from this equation, in our estimation, is skill. Journeyers are often not taught how to navigate these experiences, so they are at the mercy of the medicine."

I have been saying this for five years now, so this is REALLY encouraging! Yes yes yes yes yes!

Although, the skills they describe, "to breathe, to focus, to stay present during difficult experiences, to surrender when that’s what’s called for, to engage with the spirit of the plant, and to manifest and integrate after the journey" --- I think are still limited.
 
I'd also like to mention that, while I believe all psychedelics would be good for yoga, the two best candidates in a public setting that was not aware/would not be cool with you tripping, would be psilocybin and LSD, because neither causes nausea (compared with ibogaine, mescaline, ayahuasca, or 5-MeO-DMT or 5-HO-DMT taken orally with harmalas). Puking in a public yoga studio ain't good.

Between the two, I think LSD would be more suitable, for the simple reason that LSD has such a physically stimulating quality to it compared to mushrooms. Channeling that physical energy into a practice like yoga would probably be the most ideal form of LSD meditation.
 
Waitaminute.....

Bruh. I think these dudes read one of my posts from 2019. It got 11,600 views.

Um, if these dudes got the phrasing and articulation of this idea from my old post....

THAT IS SO COOL!!!!!! I would LOVE IT if that idea got picked up and absorbed in the psychedelic renaissance conversation! My GOD the internet can be cool. DMT-Nexus RULES!

(This is the old post I made from 2019)
 
Good evening all, reviving this topic as I have gathered some experiential knowledge on this subject. So first of all, it is important to understand that yoga means union. Union is achieved through meditation. I am actually practicing as a meditation coach and doing free workshops in my area. Having said that, I took a long break from psychs while practicing kriya yoga, and exploring Hinduism, devotion, and deep spirituality. I was going through something not too long ago and decided to take the plunge back into my special batch of changa, and had a full on emotional purge and spontaneous kriyas. My body decided to do the fluttering breath on its own, perfectly, and with much force, then my head jerked back, mouth jerked open, and the energy released. That's when the emotional purge started. Deep guttural sobs, and my body was squeezing out the karma so to speak. So, back to the OP's reference of yoga; I am assuming it is the asanas and stretching varieties that are being referenced. Yes, the body does keep the score, and I love doing flow classes every now and then, and I can certainly see how these movements, in conjunction with medicines, would certainly be able to provide some profound healing. The one thing that will always be the MOST powerful is union or samadhi. I myself have experienced early stages of savikalpa samadhi (losing yourself in Yourself) through the practice of kriya yoga (Lahiri lineage) and deep meditation. Once you are able to consciously access these realms that the medicine introduces us to, healing is going to happen. I hope this comment helps advance the discussion and I would love to talk more about it.

Pranam!

🙏🕉🌹
 
In the Mahabharata there are allegorical references to mushrooms that grow on elephant dung being eaten as part of a tradition and in terms of the context of a story of a journey to a dazzling gem filled underworld of the Naga.

It is quite clear to those who know.

There is undoubtedly a tradition of the use of tryptamine fungi in Hindu culture though it may not be a very well studied topic in terms of online culture.
 
I have found ...low dose salvia.. can actually induce a state of meditation.. with relaxation..and using visualization methods ...
[similar to what lucid dreamers use to try to enter a lucid dream]... can put one in a state of meditation ..that can be very visual...and rewarding!
 
starway7 said:
I have found ...low dose salvia.. can actually induce a state of meditation.. with relaxation..and using visualization methods ...
[similar to what lucid dreamers use to try to enter a lucid dream]... can put one in a state of meditation ..that can be very visual...and rewarding!
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I believe it.
The reports of quid use of Salvia include some extremely visual meditative like states entirely different from the reaction elicited by smoking larger amounts.

It makes sense a low dose of Salvia and a dark quiet room could result in wonderful and rewarding experiences.
 
While there can be "interesting" experiences in the acute psychedelic state, this one finds that the "afterglow" period, certainly the 24-48 hours after 5-ht2a partial agonism is particularly fruitful, and desirable for meditation and associated insight.

There is a "calmness," of thought, with fewer "unwanted," or anxiety-laden thoughts during this time. What is going on neurophysiologically during the afterglow one suspects is a very fruitful area of research... perhaps the default-mode network is not fully back "online" after being disrupted... something to do with early-period 5-ht2a down-regulation.

Also, the anecdote in Be Here Now with Ram Dass giving Neem Karoli Baba 915µg LSD, has been integral... first seen as some siddhi, or incomprehensible thing, now, seen as key to awakening as one is not identified as the mind and it's perturbations, but rather the unmodifiable Consciousness, or awareness that is "witness" to the psychedelic state, and phenomena - Terrance Mckenna and John Horgan's skepticism aside.
 
igorcarajo said:
How does one meditate for three hours???
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Through sheer determination and much sober practice every day. While there are Buddhist philosophies which claim meditation is immediately perfect from the start (although I think that’s a metaphysical philosophical comment rather than a description of developed ability), I tend to subscribe more to schools of thought in Buddhism that consider meditation developmentally. If you want to learn guitar, you punish your fingers. When the barnacles of maddening boredom break off and the mind drops into unity, there is serenity. On psychedelics, this is the phase where the visuals turn into full blown visions.
 
8-Serpent-Wind said:
In the Mahabharata there are allegorical references to mushrooms that grow on elephant dung being eaten as part of a tradition and in terms of the context of a story of a journey to a dazzling gem filled underworld of the Naga.

It is quite clear to those who know.

There is undoubtedly a tradition of the use of tryptamine fungi in Hindu culture though it may not be a very well studied topic in terms of online culture.
Click to expand...

Would love to see a citation of the direct text, that would be fascinating to read!
 
OneIsEros said:
THAT, in my opinion, should be the focus of the next stage in the psychedelic renaissance. Skillset.
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Brilliantly put.
When I first starting taking and reading about psychedelics, there was an overall expectation that I would be put in a passive state as an observer, a recipient. And maybe that's how it naturally is at the beginning.

But psychedelics really do shine when their energy is passed through any one of the disciplines you mentioned. In fact, I find that is a really tangible way for psychedelics to change the world--to do creative things while on psychedelics.

Sure, it begins internally with health, (yoga, meditation, etc.), but, practice sustained, the energy continues outwardly into the creative arts, business, relationships, flow arts, things that please other people.

~

I have have always been, ehm, leary of the 1960s/70s tropes around psychedelics, namely because, I think, they were more based around LSD than the more whole plant-based and fungi-based experiences.
 
Medicinal Mindfulness has "skillset" as a part of of set and setting within their therapeutic modality. Something I too very much agree with and think it's a valuable tool in encouraging depth of experience and honesty with oneself.

One love
 
I like doing some form of physical activity while on the come up of LSD/Mushrooms. I think that it helps put me in the zone for the peak. Yoga in particular is nice to just feel the body and the make sure that everything is working properly.

As for meditation I think that everyone should cultivate some form of inner reflection. However, I am more on the bandwagon of listening to the drug and not so much forcing one particular version of the trip. It might be that you could actually use more external guidance than internal guidance. Every trip is different so I think following your intuition will produce the best results.
 
Yes, I agree that the psychedelic often passes along some sort of messaging. However, I think that in traditional meditative contexts, that more holistic view of one’s way of life and one’s meditation practice is more emphasized. In the Pali suttas the Buddha emphasized that Jhana (Japanese pronunciation “Zen”), the “correct samadhi” for his purposes, necessitated sila (morality, virtue, ethics), or else one could not enter jhana. There are other types of samadhi (which generally means unwavering focus), but jhana was the one that the Buddha taught as the “correct samadhi” for attaining liberation. He also taught Brahmavihara meditation as a way of strengthening virtue, but it was not the avenue to Nibbana. And there are countless samadhis he would have outright rejected (sex could be a focus of samadhi for example - the Tibetans have room for it in some small corners but the Buddha of the Pali canon while acknowledging it as a samadhi, would have adamantly rejected it as an “incorrect samadhi” for his purposes).

So of course, more holistic details than just samadhi practice alone are, in the traditional meditative contexts, crucial. In this sense yes, listening to the messages from psychedelics are key. Other meditative traditions like the classical Yoga school would concur with this.

And then of course there’s just the stuff that doesn’t have to do with ethics at all which psychedelics may bring to your attention. Like, “You eat too much salt!”, lol. But then again, while the Buddha never spoke out against salt, he did include diet as part of sila (no eating outside the period between sunrise and noon).

So yeah, I guess acquiescing to some form of sila would be key for psychedelics. Perhaps not a Buddhist conception of sila, because it would depend on your purposes - but many silas and many samadhis for many purposes. Brujo shamans, aka mercenary shamans, have their own nefarious silas and samadhis. Correct and incorrect have reference to purpose, although an absolute standard of correct or incorrect in this poster’s opinion, probably exists (contrary to David Hume’s assertion that there is a distinction between fact and value). From an absolute sense, I would say the sila and samadhi of a brujo or mercenary shaman are always incorrect, though they may be efficient in terms of their provisional evil tasks.
 
Morality helps with integrity and integrity helps with having a calm and stable mind. If you know your values and what you consider worth pursuing, it helps a lot in the hyperspace when making decisions and also repels some of the impure energies.
 
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