Yopo, Datura, Lotus, and Rue combination question

[theAlkēmist]

Hey all, I’m new to the nexus (this is my first post) but SWIM is a very experienced psychonaut, and I am a chemist, naturopath, homeopath, and experimenting with alchemy. I’m very glad to be onboard and share experiences while learning from others.

SWIM is thinking of taking a mix of 5 yopo (Anadenanthera peregrina) seeds orally, with the outer shell removed, then lightly fried and ground, along with 3 datura metel seeds ground to counter nausea and enhance visuals, and 200mg of a blue lotus 200:1 extract, all in a little coconut yoghurt.

Note 1: harmalas are from a Syrian rue extract.
Note 2: SWIM is not doing yopo intranasal so there’s no point suggesting it.
Note 3: SWIM has no bufotenine experience but has smoked DMT and Changa.

My questions are the following:
1. Yopo contains bufotenine primarily, as far as I’m aware it’s active orally. Does anyone have any experience with harmalas and bufotenine? Do I ‘need’ harmalas to enhance the experience?
2. Yopo has small contents of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, is there enough to make harmalas worth it in 5 yopo seeds with oral use?
3. SWIM is an experienced datura user but is a bit worried about how much tropane alkaloids will be effected by harmalas, does anyone have any experience? SWIM definitely does not want a datura experience.
4. From what i understand bufotenine causes nausea via the 5-HT3 receptor? Will the anti-nausea effect of tropanes even counter nausea caused this way? (Some explorers say it does from anecdotal experience)
5. So do you suggest SWIM have harmalas beforehand?

Thanks for reading my post and I look forward to being a member of this community.

 

[dragonrider]

Taking yopo orally will probably result in extreme nausea. I don't think datura, or anything else, will prevent this. Harmala's will most likely make the nausea even worse.

No, i don't see this result in a nice experience.

The best way to enjoy yopo is by smoking it, or taking it sublingually, in wich case you will need to add edible lime. Smoking it, is by far the most effective way. But the smoke is quite harsh.

 

[theAlkēmist]

So I have done rigorous research on bufotenine caused nausea. It is definitely caused by it’s effects as a 5-HT3 receptor agonist. The most effective phytochemical to act as a 5-HT3 antagonist is β-pinene a monoterpene. β-pinene is found in quantities as follows:

Lemon Essential Oil: 6.6%
Peppermint Essential Oil: 0.55%
Ginger Essential Oil: 0.55%
Fennel Essential Oil: 0.21%
It is also a main constituent of cannabis, probably attuning to its anti-nausea properties.

I am trying to find exact doses for β-pinene but sources say 5-10 drops of Lemon Essential Oil, which is 0.25-0.5mL = 0.8-1.6g.
At 6.6% of β-pinene = 52.8-105.4mg of β-pinene for 5-HT3 inhibition.

 

[dragonrider]

Yes. Some people have done experimehts with lemon essential oil, and claimed it worked.
You probably need to take significant quantities, but it could work.

If you would decide to continue with this experiment, i would be very interested to hear how it goes.

 

[theAlkēmist]

Ok so in about 8 hours SWIM is gonna have a tea with 350mg of Syrian rue seed 30:1 extract (this is a suitable dose SWIM has tested) with 10 drops of lemon essential oil.

30 minutes later SWIM is gonna have 5 yopo seeds prepared like in the OP, 2 datura metel seeds, and 200mg of blue lotus 200:1 extract, all this ground up mixed with a little coconut yoghurt.

SWIM is gonna eat now then fast till his experience. This should be a light-moderate trip, will keep you updated.

 

[theAlkēmist]

SWIM just finished consuming this combo, will come back later with a trip report.

A tea with:
Syrian rue seed 30:1 extract of 350mg
For harmala alkaloids to act as a RIMA.

Lemon essential oil of 10 drops (0.5mL | 230mg)
@ 6.6% β-pinene = 15mg
This dose should inhibit the 5-HT3 receptor preventing serotonin caused nausea.

30min later just ate powder of: (most dissolved in mouth)
Yopo (anadenanthera peregrina) x5 seeds = 600mg
@ 1-7.5% bufotenine [5-OH-DMT] = 6-45mg
@ 0.001-0.16% DMT = 6-960μg
@ 0.012-0.68% 5-MeO-DMT = 72μg-4mg
Prepared yopo extract 3.75:1 = 160mg

Blue lotus 200:1 extract of 200mg
For aporphine alkaloids.

Then chewed on:
Datura metel seed x2 = 26mg
@ 0.2-0.5% tropane alkaloids (mostly scopolamine) = 52-130μg

 

[theAlkēmist]

So SWIM said it was a moderate dose, it took about 50min to come on. The come up was very intense. Then there was really really intense euphoria, much more then a heavy MDMA dose, lots of tingling, feelings of electricity, heavy aphrodisiac feelings. There were a few scattered morphing colourful fractals on things (kind of bluish). After about 15min SWIM needed to close his eyes. There were scattered colourful closed eye visuals followed by random visions of (ironically) Ancient Egyptian high priests and also humanoid beings performing some kind of tests on him. This lasted for about 2h and SWIM has just opened his eyes. Everything looks like a low LSD dose, glowing, ultra HD, a little trippy but at the same time more clear then ever. SWIM has strong feelings of self-acceptance, peacefulness, and relaxation. Very enjoyable. But SWIM has many more questions then before, SWIM thinks in a fortnight he’s gonna do this again but double the dose, with a few modifications.

I’ll write a proper trip report later.

 

[rOm]

Thanks for sharing. I only did tiny microdose orally. Loke one or tow roasted seeds orally, to give my body mind the information, and then moved to snuff ( mixed with edible lime ) and also as bufotenin extract ( using teks available here, in WIKI ) smoked freebase.

However at first, it wasn't the nausea but an intense bodyload and vasoconstriction whihcv was stronger than the mental effect.
Made me leave it thinking it was very harsh on me.

Then, years later, got to try some yopo snuff again in brazil, near the trees ( very tall tree ) and it was more gentle on the body. Found out if you snuff low dose like I do ( still a bit wary of the vasoconstriciton ), was going nicely with some psilocybe mushrooms. Psilocybin and bufotenin goes well together and enhance each other.

All that to say, I've never been that far with yopo, and your experience is interesting.

 

[dragonrider]

It is interesting that you experienced euphoria. Yopo by itself usually doesn't have such powerfull mental effects. At least, not when smoked or taken sublingually.

 

[theAlkēmist]

Well I’ve been doing research and there’s strong evidence to suggest that bufotenine and specifically calcium carbonate react to form dehydrobufotenine (a much more potent psychedelic) via the unstable deprotonised bufotenine (note: this does not work in this effect with calcium hydroxide as the alkalinity is too strong and it’s pKa is far too high). It takes 24 hours for the reaction to complete at room temperature.

Also (dehydro)bufotenine works by agonising the 5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, 5-HT3, 5-HT4, AChE, and M1 receptors. Only the 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors give psychedelic effects. By inhibiting the rest we allow more (dehydro)bufotenine to agonise the wanted receptors, thus making it ‘stronger’ per say.

The 5-HT3 receptor causes nausea related serotonin release. Lemon essential oil inhibits this receptor.

The 5-HT4 receptor causes anxiolytic effects, unneeded and utilising (dehydro)bufotenine. Chamomile essential oil inhibits this receptor.

All psychadelics agonise the AChE and M1 receptors. Tropane alkaloids (found in datura spp.) competitively antagonise these receptors. Freeing up psychedelics such as our bufotenine to bind to 5-HT receptors, hence why low doses of datura seeds enhance visuals, because they change efficacy. M1 is also responsible for nausea.

I’m gonna do a proper write up with references this weekend about all this stuff.

 

[BeJake]

I love yopo and I don't really understand why people avoid the snuff, yeah can be a little strong the first time but with some experience become nice.
Nice experience.

 

[theAlkēmist]

It is interesting that you experienced euphoria. Yopo by itself usually doesn't have such powerfull mental effects. At least, not when smoked or taken sublingually.

I’m positive the blue lotus, possibly the Syrian rue, and maybe the datura helped to spur this. SWIM is still feeling a bit giddy by the way.

 

[theAlkēmist]

I love yopo and I don't really understand why people avoid the snuff, yeah can be a little strong the first time but with some experience become nice.
Nice experience.

SWIM has abused his nasal passages far too much when he was young for recreational use and doesn’t want that ROA anymore.

 

[Mystic0]

I can only say that Yopo makes you throw up a lot, even in smaller dosages it causes a lot of nausia. The trip is incredibly intense. Do it with a sitter.

 

[theAlkēmist]

Bufotenine nausea is caused by agonising the 5-HT3A receptor and the M3 receptor. If you inhibit them you’ll get no nausea. I’m writing a detailed article about it. Just consuming yopo will make you sick. But if you pre-inhibit these receptors you’ll get no nausea.

SWIM has consumed yopo alongside HBWR seeds with absolutely no nausea or vasoconstriction by inhibiting different receptors. Writing this up now. It’s very simple but the chemistry behind it is a little complicated.

 

[javat]

harmalas and bufotenine is dangerous .
you can experience the most horrible pain in face arms legs and head for the vasoconstriction of this combo
you can die if you redose in short period of time

i make these combo a few moths ago
and the pain is absolutly horrible .

the dose is the key .

 

[ijahdan]

Ive experimented a fair bit with yopo, first few times insufflated, more recently as a simple alcohol extraction of the powdered freebased seeds, infused on herbs and smoked with and without harmine. I find the harmine actually reduces the vasoconstriction, to the point at which it's just a mild body load in the early stages of the trip. It also smooths out the experience, reduces visual strobing effects and extends the afterglow. Cant find any evidence that harmalas and bufotenine is a dangerous combo, it certainly doesnt feel unhealthy, Id be interested to hear of any studies on this, if they exist.

Nausea has never been a problem for me with smoking yopo, but I am trying to reduce lung abuse now that Im pushing 50, so oral yopo intrigues me. Keep us informed of your experiments with this ROA. Also, do you think essential oils are necessary, or would camomile tea with lemon juice have a similar effect? Maybe blue lotus infused wine too? A small amount of alcohol seems to work well with yopo. I heard somewhere that the seeds are sometimes consumed orally with beer in South America.

 

[theAlkēmist]

Ive experimented a fair bit with yopo, first few times insufflated, more recently as a simple alcohol extraction of the powdered freebased seeds, infused on herbs and smoked with and without harmine. I find the harmine actually reduces the vasoconstriction, to the point at which it's just a mild body load in the early stages of the trip. It also smooths out the experience, reduces visual strobing effects and extends the afterglow. Cant find any evidence that harmalas and bufotenine is a dangerous combo, it certainly doesnt feel unhealthy, Id be interested to hear of any studies on this, if they exist.

Nausea has never been a problem for me with smoking yopo, but I am trying to reduce lung abuse now that Im pushing 50, so oral yopo intrigues me. Keep us informed of your experiments with this ROA. Also, do you think essential oils are necessary, or would camomile tea with lemon juice have a similar effect? Maybe blue lotus infused wine too? A small amount of alcohol seems to work well with yopo. I heard somewhere that the seeds are sometimes consumed orally with beer in South America.

Yes I do think the EOs are 100% necessary for 5-HT3A antagonisation. The blue lotus was for its aporphine alkaloids.