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"You need a shaman!"

Migrated topic.
Understanding the experience as your responsibility, with or without shamans, needs addressed before utilizing medicine. I don't think we all need shamans. Ime this is non-issue. However, we can also be shamans on our own. I do see the beauty in greeting and partaking with one or two professional and traditional shamans.
 
We all need a positive influence in our lives at one time or other and i guess it depends on how one defines a shaman. Having some old boy chanting and blowing smoke in my face while i am tripping my nuts off isn"t really my thing but i am not completely closed to the idea if the situation ever presented itself.
 
The power is within the substance. Do you need a shaman? Do you need a trip sitter? Some people do, and some people don't.
 
Here's an analogy for ya:

To say "you need a shaman to have a psychedelic experience" would be on par with saying "you need a professional athlete to play basketball." Clearly if you get the opportunity to shoot hoops with Shaq you should take that opportunity and learn all you can from the maestro, but to say you can't enjoy a pickup game with your friends down at the local court without LeBron overseeing it is rather a silly stance.

If you can sit with Don Maestro Chaman upriver from Iquitos, by all means do it, but that isn't going to be enough to make you into a master. Mastery comes from learning to walk the medicine path every moment of every day and integrating it into everything you do. The only way to master the medicine is to live the medicine.
 
More importantly, what do YOU say to this?

There are valid arguments for AND against.

In my opinion, it falls into the category of decisions you make based mainly upon your own feelings and knowledge.
 
Pup Tentacle said:
More importantly, what do YOU say to this?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, I'm still trying to decide. The voices that say "You need a shaman" are coming from a place of fear--fear that I might go crazy or get infected with an evil spirit, and also a place of respect for the origin of this plant technology.

The "You don't need a shaman" come from a voice that is about self-empowerment and courage.

I went to Peru last year and visited three shamans. I was going to them purportedly to heal my rheumatoid arthritis (I believe now the mission is much deeper than that). The first one was not my type. The second two were a couple. They both claimed to be shamans. The woman gringo was a very unpleasant person. Her Shipibo husband, however, was a really really chill dude who made me feel very safe. Unfortunately, the woman's ego kinda screwed things up and I didn't get to go deep with the medicine there. But I will always remember that man as the real deal. My bullshit meter is reeeally good (I detect it in 99% of the people I meet) and this guy was just... chill, mature, funny, responsible, etc. And valued not-knowing more than knowing, in the context of working with mother Ayahuasca.

Did I need him? Perhaps "need" is too strong a word. But I definitely felt like he would have made my experiences safer, smoother, and more productive. I would even have dreams or half-sleep states in which I felt his presence, just sitting at the foot of my bed, or crouching next to me. One time, "he" gently touched a specific place on my back and it was healing, heart-opening, revitalizing. This guy was the real deal. His singing in ceremony was other-worldly, and full of powerful compassion and dedication. I even felt this sitting in a ceremony in which I had not drunk any medicine.

I'm not like, worshipping him at all. I consider him more of a friend than a higher-up. Someone else said it here, I think... some "shamans" consider themselves simply "medicine carriers." I think he secretly thought of himself as that, and perhaps with some hefty experience.

So, do I need a shaman? I dunno. I'm in a very hard place in my life right now (I can barely walk, I hang out with friends now like once a month, I'm addicted to the computer, it's fricking FREEZING outside...) so I am worried that without a shaman as an anchor or guide, I might slip into my own world in a bad way. I don't even have the trees to talk to right now.

On the other hand, I consider myself pretty good with listening and being in dialog with the plants I take. I feel like I can take the lessons as they come.

I think if I were to have a shaman, it would have to be a VERY special shaman, not just any guy/gal. I say this because my case is very unusual--the aya seems to be taking 3 days to kick in, and when it does, it directly addresses my joint inflammation.

Sorry for the rant, but I figured I would explain what inspired the initial question.
 
I'm sure there is invaluable skills to be learned from some of them... but you don't NEED one to learn to explore these things, like many people claim. Should some people with certain kinds of issues/backgrounds/states of mind seek a supportive friend who can introduce them safely to the territory? Probably.

It can definitely get annoying how many people will look at you like you have 3 heads if you say you take ayahuasca alone in your bed. But at the same time, I don't want to dismiss the potential usefulness of learning from someone who has the accumulated knowledge of many generations of work with the plants.

I think the way in which ayahuasca entered western awareness, with many indigenous traditions still somewhat intact, influenced the development of this view... because I see a lot of people who say these sorts of things, and then go and take 5 grams of mushrooms in their room alone.

Which is kind of funny to me because, to be honest, I'm far more nervous before taking a big dose of mushrooms than a big dose of ayahuasca alone
 
What differentiates a shaman from an ordinary traveller?

I usually travel with either, as universecannon says, "a supportive friend", or my wife, or solo. Over my last two experiences I've realised how much more empowering and profound being an active participant in journeying is. Rather than simply sitting back and letting the experience happen to me, I can get involved and guide my own / be guided / help guide others / ask questions / state or reaffirm a positive placehold if things go a little skew, etc.

My supportive friend has always been the active one in the past, but recently I've become comfortable enough to get involved in my own experience.

So for me, the differentiation is simply action. Which actions raise the space up / calm the space down etc, are things we learn, or are taught with time and an open mind. We also take care not to create actions will be disruptive to ourselves or others, or be abrasive in general.

So yes, you can 'be your own shaman', and likewise you can be that to others as well, but my optimum space is when two people who understand this premise make the trip together. That kind of synergy is a wonderful thing :)
 
The way I see it, if a person wants to experience ayahuasca or San Pedro or whatever, and that person doesn't have the desire to learn how to prepare the plants, then that person needs a shaman.
On the other hand, if one has the desire and experimental mindset to work with the plants themselves and then does that, then in my opinion that person is a shaman (or whatever you want to call it).

We've all read how the people in the amazon learned of the combo directly from the plants, so why can't people anywhere do the same, with a little guidance from the nexus?

It takes a lot of money and resources to fly to the jungle, imagine those same resources being used to ship you a package of various plant seeds, which with patience can pay off with untold knowledge and enlightenment for you and your friends.

But to be honest, like others have said, if I were given the chance to drink with a good hearted shaman I would. I don't want to sound like I'm dinegrating aya tourism, but like terrence mckenna said, we need to unleash the logos to change the world and unfortunantly, it's beyond the means of most to take a trip to South America.

The fact is that aya has moved beyond the amazon. For example, I have a yellow caapi vine right next to me right now, growing bigger and stronger by the day. And when she's ready to take cutting from, she'll continue her march from here to other neo-shamans in other places.
 
I had what was probably the best time of my entire life last summer, tripping around festivals with family...met up with old friends I had not seen in years, some of them who I still now go out dancing with..some new friends..some new nexus friends...

Most powerful moments of my life tripping through the forest at shambhala half(or fully) naked mid summer dancing with beautiful people, beautiful women...10,000 magical beings being reborn. It changed me so much I am not even sure who I was a year ago. Everything I thought I wanted in life changed after that..I cant wait to be back home..

I just don't know how a shaman can top that. I think what we have going on in our tribe is ideal already.
 
I experienced ayahuasca many ways: with indigenous shamans, with daime leaders, with good friends, with girlfriend and by myself. Each is special in their own way.

I dont think taking ayahuasca with a shaman is obligatory, but if you have the opportunity, why not try? At least for me it has been incredible. And then you can decide for your own if you like it or not.

And if you don't have the opportuinty, you can still have amazingly transformative and safe experiences in another setting. If its first time, def recommend at least an experienced person or sitter together though.
 
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