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18-MC
- Thread starter 332211
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332211
Rising Star
99% of man made crazyness roots in addiction: maslovian d-needs (for safety, power, acceptance, esteem, religion, money) rooting in an unloving upbringing and a huge neglect in human needs for love, compassion, comapanionship, self-realization and in the end transcendence lead to a global epidemic of addicts.
look at our "leaders". addicts.
18-mc is a substance derived from ibogaine, has the same antiaddictive properties minus the tripping. It*s "inventor" mr. Glick struggles to get the ball in public, because the connnection to ibogain makes it almost impossible to get funding for human trials.
so, again, one of the sharpest tools must stay in the shed, hello psychedelics, because of ignorance.
fuck the rules. flood the country with 18-mc.
just as leary did with lsd.
don*t get me wrong. 18-mc is in no way the end to suffering. this realm will still stay in duality, but at least we would get more people out of the loops they are right in now.
i'd really love to lose the shackles of sex/porn/internet addiction as soon as possible.
i am just tired of falling in the same trap again and again and again.
by the way, a microdose of 1p-lsd inspired me to write this.
a big thank you to every soul working on these compounds and making them accessable to the wider public.
look at our "leaders". addicts.
18-mc is a substance derived from ibogaine, has the same antiaddictive properties minus the tripping. It*s "inventor" mr. Glick struggles to get the ball in public, because the connnection to ibogain makes it almost impossible to get funding for human trials.
so, again, one of the sharpest tools must stay in the shed, hello psychedelics, because of ignorance.
fuck the rules. flood the country with 18-mc.
just as leary did with lsd.
don*t get me wrong. 18-mc is in no way the end to suffering. this realm will still stay in duality, but at least we would get more people out of the loops they are right in now.
i'd really love to lose the shackles of sex/porn/internet addiction as soon as possible.
i am just tired of falling in the same trap again and again and again.
by the way, a microdose of 1p-lsd inspired me to write this.
a big thank you to every soul working on these compounds and making them accessable to the wider public.
RhythmSpring
Established member
332211 said:
Addiction (in the broadest sense of the word) is merely a side effect of the bigger problem: lack of or poor human connection. And that can be remedied in so many ways--iboga(ine) being just one of them.
Clearly, being in the throes of any addiction (such as internet porn) can make one passionate about solving addiction on the wider scale, but I would caution against acting hastily, especially when talking about man-made chemicals with virtually no history of use or scientific studies.
Sure, 18-MC may lack a trip, but that aspect may carry with it a whole slew of unforseen side-effects or long-term social effects unforeseeable.
Not to mention "flood the country" with anything is problematic for so many reasons and would probably do more harm than good.
If your end is love, your means must be love too.
I think microdosing iboga or DXM might be just as effective, pharmacologically.
Addictions sure as hell are a huge burden. For society as a whole, but most of all for the ones in the grip of them.
I've struggled with a cannabis addiction in the past myself, and that's probably not even half as bad as a sex-addiction.
So first i realy want to say that my heart goes out to you, and i hope that you will manage to conquer this thing you're dealing with.
But let me also tell you about the problem i had with cannabis. I used it to fill a void in my life.
When i broke up with my girlfriend, cannabis took her place. But a substance, or porn, or whatever, can never replace a real human being.
And when i quit smoking weed, i had to go through the pain of being alone again. Pain that was just still there, waiting to be felt.
I think addictions always fill some kind of void. And this void probably, on a deeper level, has something to do with how we feel about ourselves. In my case for instance, i think i always somehow felt that she was too good for me, and that i wasn't realy worthy of her love anyway. Probably the reason why she left me in the first place.
So i think that the only way for me to overcome that problem, is to do things that will change the way i feel about myself.
I find that realy hard btw. I often still feel like a nobody. But i mean, taking a pill is not going to change that for me.
Addictions sure as hell are a huge burden. For society as a whole, but most of all for the ones in the grip of them.
I've struggled with a cannabis addiction in the past myself, and that's probably not even half as bad as a sex-addiction.
So first i realy want to say that my heart goes out to you, and i hope that you will manage to conquer this thing you're dealing with.
But let me also tell you about the problem i had with cannabis. I used it to fill a void in my life.
When i broke up with my girlfriend, cannabis took her place. But a substance, or porn, or whatever, can never replace a real human being.
And when i quit smoking weed, i had to go through the pain of being alone again. Pain that was just still there, waiting to be felt.
I think addictions always fill some kind of void. And this void probably, on a deeper level, has something to do with how we feel about ourselves. In my case for instance, i think i always somehow felt that she was too good for me, and that i wasn't realy worthy of her love anyway. Probably the reason why she left me in the first place.
So i think that the only way for me to overcome that problem, is to do things that will change the way i feel about myself.
I find that realy hard btw. I often still feel like a nobody. But i mean, taking a pill is not going to change that for me.
RhythmSpring said:
Yeah exactly.. Ohh the irony... Assuming such a simple solution a complex problem.. that's part of what creates addiction in our society in the first place.
Thank you for elucidating. You obviously hold a passion for this subject. I too feel strongly about the subject and the hypocrisy, ignorance and impotence with which the leaders of my country deal with it.
My personal connection with it is heroin and i have lost much and many to it. I understand the feelings you have but must agree with the status quo here in tempering yourself.
I feel strongly about the use of psychedelics as am adjunct to treating addiction. In my case a powerful encounter with 5meoDMT was the catalyst for transformation. I feel that for me it was the experience that i needed as it gave me a sense of meaning derived from an experiential encounter with something far greater than myself that held great validity fur me as being real. Others can benefit from a purely medication standpoint, and using a non psychoactive substance that has the potential to resolve opiate withdrawal symptoms would be a powerful tool indeed.
As it is in America, the main lobbies are for buprenorphine and vivitrol. Methadone is still vilified and the two former are poised to take over medication assisted treatment protocols in the US. Promoting something as questionable to conservatives as ibogaine or any derivative of it would indeed be difficult.
On the other hand in the locality where i live harm reduction is the new buzz word among the treatment community and there is hope yet for reason in America. My suggestion to OP is to focus on their local area. Talk to addicts get to know them and start volunteering. Maybe start handing out rigs if there's no exchange and start small. See what can be done and do it but be real about your expectations.
My personal connection with it is heroin and i have lost much and many to it. I understand the feelings you have but must agree with the status quo here in tempering yourself.
I feel strongly about the use of psychedelics as am adjunct to treating addiction. In my case a powerful encounter with 5meoDMT was the catalyst for transformation. I feel that for me it was the experience that i needed as it gave me a sense of meaning derived from an experiential encounter with something far greater than myself that held great validity fur me as being real. Others can benefit from a purely medication standpoint, and using a non psychoactive substance that has the potential to resolve opiate withdrawal symptoms would be a powerful tool indeed.
As it is in America, the main lobbies are for buprenorphine and vivitrol. Methadone is still vilified and the two former are poised to take over medication assisted treatment protocols in the US. Promoting something as questionable to conservatives as ibogaine or any derivative of it would indeed be difficult.
On the other hand in the locality where i live harm reduction is the new buzz word among the treatment community and there is hope yet for reason in America. My suggestion to OP is to focus on their local area. Talk to addicts get to know them and start volunteering. Maybe start handing out rigs if there's no exchange and start small. See what can be done and do it but be real about your expectations.
332211
Rising Star
thanks for all your answers, I will come back to you in a day or two, there are many things to manage right now.
thanks again for your answers!
I understand now, that "flooding the country" with an untested substance bears a lot of potential chaos. Addiction often roots in the wish for a fast, easy and painless solution for complex problems. Why do you think tobbacco and alcohol producing industries rely so heavily on marketing to put their poisonous products into the hands of happy, attractive and successful people in their advertisements? Because to sell us shit it has to be disguised as the shizzle.
This also produces a bias: All fast, easy and working solutions must be traps. Sure, there are risks involved. We all know that from our own psychedelic experimentations. These substances are tools and handling them incorrectly leads to cuts...
I'll have a look if microdosing iboga could score the same effects.
If anyone has his hands on 18-mc... i'd be glad to test it too.
thanks again for your answers!
I understand now, that "flooding the country" with an untested substance bears a lot of potential chaos. Addiction often roots in the wish for a fast, easy and painless solution for complex problems. Why do you think tobbacco and alcohol producing industries rely so heavily on marketing to put their poisonous products into the hands of happy, attractive and successful people in their advertisements? Because to sell us shit it has to be disguised as the shizzle.
This also produces a bias: All fast, easy and working solutions must be traps. Sure, there are risks involved. We all know that from our own psychedelic experimentations. These substances are tools and handling them incorrectly leads to cuts...
I'll have a look if microdosing iboga could score the same effects.
If anyone has his hands on 18-mc... i'd be glad to test it too.
Jagube
Established member
I understand 18-MC has been shown effective in easing opiate withdrawal, but is there any evidence that it can help with psychological addictions (porn, etc.) where withdrawal is not really an issue?
I would think that the psychedelic experience - which 18-MC doesn't induce - would be of much greater importance here.
I would think that the psychedelic experience - which 18-MC doesn't induce - would be of much greater importance here.
According to the wikipedia entry. A patent has been filed and human trials are underway. It appears there are moar effective analogues out there as well.
I haven't had a chance to do my due diligence in the pharmacological research yet, but I suspect I'd be safe in assuming that this family of compounds is able to interrupt opiate dependency as well as other dopaminergic dependencies (cocaine, nicotine, etc) along the lines of Iboga?
That's pretty fantastic, but we gotta be aware that there are no magic bullets. Being able to interrupt physical dependency is a powerful tool to have in the toolbox, but addiction is very much a lifestyle thing. Even with the powerful introspective psychedelic experience provided by Iboga, in addition to the physiological interruption, a huge proportion of Iboga(ine) users end up back in their addictive cycles.
It's cool to see new tools being researched and funded, but ultimately it's down to the individual to make the necessary lifestyle changes to overcome addiction.
I haven't had a chance to do my due diligence in the pharmacological research yet, but I suspect I'd be safe in assuming that this family of compounds is able to interrupt opiate dependency as well as other dopaminergic dependencies (cocaine, nicotine, etc) along the lines of Iboga?
That's pretty fantastic, but we gotta be aware that there are no magic bullets. Being able to interrupt physical dependency is a powerful tool to have in the toolbox, but addiction is very much a lifestyle thing. Even with the powerful introspective psychedelic experience provided by Iboga, in addition to the physiological interruption, a huge proportion of Iboga(ine) users end up back in their addictive cycles.
It's cool to see new tools being researched and funded, but ultimately it's down to the individual to make the necessary lifestyle changes to overcome addiction.
DXM could be just as effective when taken repeatedly, in safe, non-narcotic doses. Pharmacologically, there are similarities between the two substances. It doesn't have kappa-activity though.
RhythmSpring
Established member
So chew some Salvia along with it. : P ^ ^
How so? I've never heard of this. Can it resolve opiate withdrawal or are you suggesting it for another reason or for aftercare?dragonrider said:
Add yes addiction is much more than the physical symptoms. It is a problem in our society that we look for easy fixes. That is part of what gets us addicted in the first place. Tools are usefulno matter what they are if one takes the time to learn as practice their use.
Like iboga, it has mild mu-activity as well as sigma 1 and 2 activity. It is also, like ibogaine, a serotonin and dopamine re-uptake inhibitor. And like iboga, it is an NMDA antagonist.null24 said:
As far as I know, it hasn't been tested as a treatment for addictions. But it has been proven to be a powerfull antidepressant. Like other NMDA antagonists, it can provide an immediate relief from depressive disorders, or at least the symptoms of depression.
In cases of severe, treatment-resistant depression, this effect lasts for up to 9 days with a single dose. When it is being administered daily, tolerance sets in after 20 days, making the effect last for 27 days.
Cactus Man
Rising Star
Ive had the pleasure and privilege to meet people whos lives were both changed and saved by iboga/ibogaine before.
I am sure there is a wider community out there in support of research in these compounds, just gotta put the word out.
I am sure there is a wider community out there in support of research in these compounds, just gotta put the word out.