18 mg freebase/acetate IV

[Izzy]

Some reading material: Photos | IV-Therapy.net

Some members may feel that you were taking risks by using DMT IV because it would be a rare thing indeed to have access to pharmaceutical grade DMT from Sigma or the like... i must mirror this concern. Discussion of sources is taboo

I cannot see where this thread may go.

Some information on IV filtering:

Pall Corporation | Filtration, Separation, Purification

A global leader providing a complete set of technologies from consumables & customizations to new inventions for the purification & filtration needs of industry.

www.pall.com

I believe filters can be bought online in various places.

SWIM uses Whatman's:

 

[Izzy]

Seraph - Cut the attitude.


Izzy - This seems to be your first post at the DMT-Nexus. Please understand many of us here strive for harm reduction and without some background/understanding of your goals/intentions you will find people hesitant to give you answers regarding IV/IM.

Strassman clearly provides appropriate doses in his Dose-Response study. I suggest you read it.
-a1pha

a1pha Thank you for the study. Read it. Problem with the study is he only used two active doses, .2 and .4 mg/kg.

To start the study, all twelve subjects received .04 mg/kg which was generally regarded as a placebo by the subjects, and .4 mg/kg (the maximum study dose) on separate days.

Then they did the next phase of the study where the subjects received saline, .05 mg/kg, .1 mg/kg (the subjects didn't like this because all body-buzz), .2 mg kg and .4 mg/kg.

That's it, he never tested .25, .3, .35 mg/kg or above .4mg/kg in this study.

The three subjects who had smoked DMT free base agreed IV effects were more overwhelming and rapid in onset.

It's kind of an old study, from 1994, the language has come a long way since then. It's dose/response right, but basically just off or on, with little in between. Good for the time.

Oh yeah, Fumaric acid is 116 gm/mol and Strassman was basing his dosing on DMT-fumarate (304 gm/mol) Since DMT-freebase is 188 gm/mol and SWIM was basing his dosing on 18 mg of freebase, that would equate to 29 mg of DMT-fumarate. Which means SWIM took 0.32 mg/kg equivalent of the fumarate.

I may be off by +/- a few percent, but it's close enough for SWIM.

SWIM may have met Strassman 10 or 15 years ago. Didn't know he was doing this research then.

 

[endlessness]

IIRC two subjects tested 0.6mg/kg as the highest doses in preliminary phases, both which were overwhelmed and Strassman decided to have 0.4 as the limit for further studies. He states this in TSM.

 

[jamie]

"Fractal enchantment, you asked "why would you inject acetates that you made with vinegar?"

Two answers... 1. To attempt to enter hyerspace.

And 2. Um, because that's what DMT acetate is made from. Distilled vinegar is another name for acetic acid. "Any type of vinegar may be distilled to produce a colorless solution of about 5% to 8% acetic acid in water. This is variously known as distilled spirit or "virgin" vinegar, or white vinegar, and is used for medicinal, laboratory and cleaning purposes"

SWIM used 50mg (.00083 mol) acetic acid (60.1 gm/mol) added to 100 mg (.00053 mol) pharmaceutical grade DMT freebase. (188.3 gm/mol). It worked well and was well tolerated.

You said "thats sort of a reckless ghetto kitchen tek" Hmmm. Please don't disparage my kitchen like that.

You said "I dont know if this post should even be kept in public view..but it maybe should be left here so that others can see that this is NOT a good idea" More Hmmm.

It was a very good idea for SWIM. Perhaps not for SWIY. Probably not the best thing to try to apply SWIY's value system to SWIM.

And you said "If you want to IV or IM make dman sure you have LAB GRADE DMT"

SWIM did.

"and fumerate salts are usually used."

That's all well and good. As reported by SWIM the acetate works quite well, (and are also commonly used)."

Yes yes I know. I have extracted and taken DMT acetate at least 100 times...I would NEVER inject that stuff though. That is not lab grade really IMO. Lab grade would require pure acetic acid I would think. Vinegar has water added to it. I dont care if it is sold apparently sterile etc..I would NOT be injecting that stuff into me. It is a ghetto kitchen tek compared to teks that produce lab grade DMT. You can reinterprete it all you want to make it sound like I was saying something about your kitchen..

The majority of us here are using these same ghetto kitchen teks..they are fine for oral and vaped consumption. Nothing I would risk injecting into my body though. And it is important that other people who dont know better and read this report do understand that it is not advised to inject vinegar. Vinegar and pure acetic acid are not really the same thing.

I have nothing against IV or you personally. You must understand that ALOT of people read these forums and harm reduction is something we have to think about EVERY SINGLE TIME SOMEONE POSTS.

 

[endlessness]

Some vinegar has added chemicals, not all vinegars are pure acetic acid + water. Make sure you got nothing added.

Safety precautions were already said. If you are gonna do this, make sure to do it as sterile as possible, using USP grade chemicals, doing several recrystallizations, having someone inject for you, etc

 

[gibran2]

The three subjects who had smoked DMT free base agreed IV effects were more overwhelming and rapid in onset.

It's kind of an old study, from 1994, the language has come a long way since then. It's dose/response right, but basically just off or on, with little in between. Good for the time.

Keep in mind they didn’t have the GVG back then. I doubt that many DMT users in the early 90’s were able to inhale a full dose in a single inhalation, with most of the dose inhaled in just a few seconds. And they probably didn’t have DMT as pure as we do today. (Orange goo is not as pure as snow-white crystals.)

“Modern” methods of purifying spice and vaporizing probably come much closer in speed of onset to IV than do the old methods/devices.

 

[jamie]

I never had white vinegar with other added chemicals to it. My concern would be the sterility of the water itself. I wouldnt trust water that is in vinegar personally. That is just me though.

 

[endlessness]

What do you mean sterility? What about boiling? or do you mean some other chemical and not life form?

I have some white vinegar in front of me that also contains SO2 to conserve it. I wouldnt want to inject that.

 

[Izzy]

Yes yes I know. I have extracted and taken DMT acetate at least 100 times...I would NEVER inject that stuff though. That is not lab grade really IMO. Lab grade would require pure acetic acid I would think. Vinegar has water added to it. I dont care if it is sold apparently sterile etc..I would NOT be injecting that stuff into me. It is a ghetto kitchen tek compared to teks that produce lab grade DMT. You can reinterprete it all you want to make it sound like I was saying something about your kitchen..

The majority of us here are using these same ghetto kitchen teks..they are fine for oral and vaped consumption. Nothing I would risk injecting into my body though. And it is important that other people who dont know better and read this report do understand that it is not advised to inject vinegar. Vinegar and pure acetic acid are not really the same thing.

UM, glacial acetic acid would tear your veins a new asshole. 5% acetic acid, also known as distilled vinegar is much safer and gives a lot more leeway for measurement error. LOL you go measure out the proper amount of glacial to acidify 100 mg of freebase then get back to me.

My way I didn't even have to get the moles right, ballpark is close enough. I eyeballed it and was within SWIM's standard. .00083 vs .00053 moles. You try that with glacial. Give me the 5% any day to work with.

"Vinegar has water added to it" Seriously? You know your blood has water in it right? Kind of like your brain has DMT in it already.

 

[cker]

Hey Izzy, I like your pictures.

You've got some guts. Your story scares the shit out of me but what do I know? What about the pH of the solution you made? I see you did some molar calculations but did you check it with paper just to be sure? Acetic acid evaporates and perhaps the 5% you used wasn't 5%. I think you want to worry about pH if you're going to continue this new hobby.

Keep in mind that most people on Nexus (including me) don't do IV DMT so any answers you receive are not likely to be from 1st hand experience. You are obviously free to do what you want but you might consider trying smoked DMT also. There is a knack required but it isn't so hard to master. It would be interesting to hear what you thought of the difference between two methods. Smoking may be better than you might imagine. There's lots of smoking info on Nexus.

You also might be interested in reading more about what happens if you take a little too much DMT. From reading Strassman, a large IV dose causes amnesia about the trip. This can happen with smoked DMT as well. You can find some personal stories about this on Nexus.

I know that you must know that shooting poses extra risks. Please Brother, try to be safe.

 

[Izzy]

Hey Izzy, I like your pictures.

You've got some guts. Your story scares the shit out of me but what do I know? What about the pH of the solution you made?

No problem on the pH, didn't burn at all.

Thanks! I got a couple more for you.

The first one is my old lady and me from a couple of Millenia ago. She had cooked up some crazy tryptamines from some vines and mushrooms she found in the rainforest. I said cool, let's purify and mainline and she was like let's stick it in our butts, wait no, let's smoke it from a fish's ass. So she made some kind of fuckin' fishbong and a friend took this picture of us getting ripped.

The next one was from a few years later and I was doing some crazy ass shit with a bird and a snake and some shrooms.. It made sense at the time. I guess you had to have been there.

 

[Rivea]

There are a lot of 'flies in the ointment' with this methodology with purification and final sterilization being the most important for the product itself. The solution should be nearly isotonic (osmolarity in the 300 milliosmoles range), pH in the range 5.0-7.0), and should not contain any trace amounts of solvents. The other issue is safely injecting one's self without ripping a needle through a vein or otherwise injuring it as was pointed out by endlessness. Using medical grade saline and or water for the creation of final solutions deserves serious consideration since it is known pure and sterile.

Something that caught my eye was in the photo of the syringe filters was the label on the box showing 0.45 um pore size. Removal of bacteria sized objects requires a pore size of 0.2 um. Removal of endotoxins, RNA, and DNA require much finer filtration that is realizable with nano-fiber ceramic (alumina) filtration which is capable of removing these possibly nasty items. You don't need any heat at all to sterilize an injectable fluid, but you do need the right filters.

 

[Izzy]

Thank you Rivea SWIM advocates sterile technique, SWIY should count their moles

 

[Rivea]

I'm just offering you some food for thought and telling you things that I would seriously consider were I to do this. I am not trying to engage in a pissing battle with you. I do know a lot about the topic of compounding IV medications even though I am not a medical doctor.

Every step along the way there is the possibility to introduce a problem. The closer you get to the end the more problems that can stack up, and the more important sterility becomes.

For example, you can boil spring water all day long, but if there are living or dead cells in it then endotoxins will most likely result. Endotoxins are the result of the lysing of these cell walls causd by the boiling itself. This releases possibly DNA, RNA, and other cellular organic compounds into the water.

These compounds are usually pyrogenic. You can get a fever with these compounds even though there is not any live bacteria in the water. The fever is not caused by an immune response, but is more a septic reaction. This can be very serious and can be life threatening.

The early pioneers in IV treatment discovered this early on when just simply boiling water to sterilize it. They discovered that to remove these toxins that the water must be carefully distilled multiple times. Here is an interesting article about depyrogenation => Article on Depyrogenation

Believe me I am quite interested in studying what you did here, and I find your experience very intriguing.

Even though the body is quite resilient, with IV therapy of any sort you do bypass a lot of bodily mechanisms that filter toxins and that prevent harmful bacteria and virus from getting an easy hold of you.

Best of luck to you!!