~20mg vaped DMT, the smiling tunnel.

[stoneybalogna]

So this trip actually took place Saturday night, the 16th, following my first trip in the morning. I almost didn't post this because I felt like I didn't really have much to say about the trip, but I have at least have some questions that could be answered.

To cover everything, I loaded roughly 20mg(all of my doses will be "roughly" until I can pick up a proper .000 scale lol) into my vapor genie, had burned some white sage, meditated shortly beforehand to clear my mind and center myself. Essentially just got myself ready for what I was expecting to be a strong dose, didn't know just how strong it would be. I'd also decided to play some tibetan singing bowls, as my usual binaural beats just weren't really giving me the vibe I was wanting. Last meal was panang curry several hours before my trip. No other drugs were in my system at this time. My room was lit by a single lamp, so nice and moody.

After preparing myself as best I could, I took my first hit. This first hit seemed dense. I could feel that the consistency of the vapor was different from my first trip. I'd also like to say real quick that I won't really be elaborating on the visuals this report, since frankly, this experience was difficult to remember, even after journaling immediately. As I began to take my second hit, I felt the first one begin to take hold, giving my room the appearance of some kind of cave, hidden in shadow. As I inhaled my second hit, this is where my trip went south for just a moment.

I wouldn't describe these as thoughts, more feelings, but I'd felt like I poisoned myself. "I've had enough, I poisoned myself, what is this, what's happening" kind of deal. I felt the panic bubbling up as I came up harder than I can remember coming up, even on previous DMT trips. I fought every instinct to put this pipe down and start running(where was I gonna run?? lmao), and took my third hit. Put the pipe down as gently as possible(still knocked it over lol), and laid back.

Immediately, I was in a complex, rotating tunnel, that I want to say was orange and black? Like I said, I had problems remembering this trip, and the beginning was very much just a general feeling of confusion and being overwhelmed. I laid there for a moment, just trying to come to terms with where I was now. I don't recall having seen visuals like this before, and while I don't remember much, I do know that they were beautiful. Beyond beautiful. And this is what led me to finally give in and smile, just surrender. I knew I couldn't hope to wrap my head around this, and it was still clearly trying to put on a show for me, regardless, so I smiled. This is when I realized that the tunnel I'd been drifting through was alive. Because it smiled back. I can't really describe it, but the visuals seemed to slide upward, curving, into a smile.

At this point, I was lost in the trip. I didn't really remember that I was in my room, nothing, I was just aware and present of this space I was in. The smiling tunnel's energy changed, and I got the feeling that it was like, "You wanna see some crazy shit?". This is where my memory gets really hazy, but I think I was observing some kind of infinitely morphing 3D geometry. It was unreal, and beyond words. I also got this strange feeling that I had agreed to forget this. Like I'd made a deal. Bizarre, and probably not true, but interesting to think about. Whatever that feeling was, I certainly don't remember it now. "Infinitely morphing 3D geometry" does no justice whatsoever.

Around this point, I'd wondered how long I'd been tripping for, which I need to quit doing! I've realized that in my first trip back, I noticed the subtle decrease in intensity, which led me to open my eyes, try for more hits, and fall back into tar land. This time, I distinctly felt like the act of thinking about how long I'd been here for shortened my potential total time that I'd be able to trip for. However this time, I didn't want to try for more hits, I wanted to stay in this space a little longer. So I'd kept my eyes closed. My earlier thought about how long I'd been under seemed to spark something.

I'm not sure if anyone's had this happen, but thinking about time is FUNKY on DMT. Seems completely made up, not important, and strangest of all, at the same time, thinking about time made it seem REAL, physical. Liquid is how I was interpreting time. It was a liquid. And I realized as I was pondering time, that I'd thought this before, in some other DMT trip. Major deja vu.

During this time, I experienced very little negative emotion. I'd worked past my initial panic at the come up, thinking I'd really taken too much, or that this wasn't even DMT(which it definitely is, I'm not sure why the brain fights so hard to convince itself that you've killed yourself). I would like to say though, that I felt like I had problems breathing the whole trip. Like something was sitting on my chest. I felt like like I could only inhale halfway. I opened my eyes to a room still jumping around, like it too, had some restless energy. I wanted to wait before journaling, but again, I had the feeling that I'd agreed to forget this trip, and the more I sat and thought, the more I realized I was losing parts of my experience.


My biggest question is, how do you fight that initial fear? I really feel like I wanted this dose, I prepared myself mentally, cleared my room of clutter, etc. But as soon as I started to come up, I felt like I really had no clue at all of what I was getting myself into, and I remember that being a part of my previous trips several years ago. I'm not sure if it's a fear that stems from the unknown, simply not knowing what will happen this trip, as they can vary so much, or if this fear comes from not trusting myself to handle what I'm shown. Whatever it is, it feels irrational, and it takes away from the experience. I feel like I spend more time trying to level out as I'm coming up than I should.

And my second question is, how can you suspend your disbelief and questions long enough to absorb anything? I get the feeling that any of my attempts to understand my trips are met with little success, and that it takes away from my trip in some way. Not sure how, exactly. But I also feel that simply observing, without any questions, makes it harder to remember anything, to bring something back. For me, at least. Is it more beneficial to be less of a passive observer?

I feel like both of these problems of mine can be solved with just more experience. It's been three years since my first extraction and trips, and I've only tripped twice so far this time around. I'm really thinking that I want to try lower doses, 10-15mg, for a while, just to get used to it. I've seen other people recommending to just jump in, SB doses being more uncomfortable and there's still enough of your shredded ego to fight, but honestly, this stuff spooks me. In the best way possible, but it spooks me. This was a marvelous trip, but I feel like the problems I mentioned are keeping me from really getting into the experience.

 

[Sanista]

Hi stoneybalogna,

I don't have any answers for you, but I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading your experience report and I can relate to a lot of the points within it. I have also had my fair share of fear and anxiety whilst on DMT, and I will be interested to hear the answers that hopefully can be provided by more knowledgeable members.

Time is indeed a very funky thing indeed - just two days ago I was in the breakthrough realm for what seemed like hours and I had in fact lost hope of ever coming back down. I have no idea how long I was truly there, but I expect it was within the order of several minutes. It is really curious to realise just how much control we have over our own perception, and it is one of my favourite parts of using psychedelics.

The point you make about struggling to get over the initial confusion and ... is shock the right word? ... of the experience is also very relatable. I wish I could settle into the experience sooner, as it seems like by the time I have come to terms with what is happening, it is almost over.

I wish you every success in your continued journeys.

 

[stoneybalogna]

and I can relate to a lot of the points within it.

I'm glad to know at least someone can understand and relate to what feels like ramblings in my mind. My only solace is that everyone here, or most people anyway, have been in similar states.

just two days ago I was in the breakthrough realm for what seemed like hours and I had in fact lost hope of ever coming back down

God, I feel that. My only experience with timelessness that I can recall was on LSD trips. I will occasionally find myself in some kind of headspace where time becomes almost comically slow. In these moments, I know that my trip will last as long as I'm willing to trip for. That there won't be a "come down" in the normal sense. I still definitely came down, but I think I became more aware of the present moment, and how it is truly eternal. There is no past or future, it's already happened or will happen. There's only right here and right now. It's difficult to describe, but these trips really helped me understand the relativity of time.

And yes, shock is a great word. It's comparable to performing a high dive for me. I feel the slight underlying fear, the rush as I dive off, and then the immersion into a world beyond my own. And it's that contact with the water that shocks me. I really think I'll need to learn to walk before I can run, and the higher doses would be trip me up as I currently stand. Thank you for the comment though, brother, and you as well.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Due to how much we're augmented by DMT, it's pretty normal to wonder about time. For all we know, we can be experience other forms of time in different spaces that don't isomorphically correspond to our usual experience.

Read through this thread. It should help some. Simply though, you will potentially always feel some level of fear. Kinda the nature of jumping into the unknown and it is very very common. Introducing harmalas to the mix will most likely alleviate some anxiety and fear (like in a changa blend or drinking rue tea before take-off).

I've been working with DMT for a while and still come across thoughts like, "uh oh, what did I just do," and the like.

As for bringing stuff back and better remembering, it's hard since it's so alien and transcendent. Out memories work by calling on a relation of something to remember something else. Most of what we see in these spaces has no counterpart in the real world, thus making it harder to remember. Practice practice practice and you'll get better at it.

DMT always has something new to show you.



One love

 

[stoneybalogna]

Void, I just want to thank you for the ideas and messages you bring here. Not just on my posts, but I see you everywhere lmao, even older posts from 2016~. I love it.

Introducing harmalas to the mix will most likely alleviate some anxiety and fear (like in a changa blend or drinking rue tea before take-off)

I'd been thinking about that, honestly. Maybe a b. caapi extract dissolved into hot water. I'd need to do my research again though, I vaguely remember something about certain foods and drinks needing to be avoided before taking it.

And it's kind of reassuring knowing even veterans to this molecule have second thoughts of some kind.

Out memories work by calling on a relation of something to remember something else. Most of what we see in these spaces has no counterpart in the real world, thus making it harder to remember.

That's valid. I think the biggest problem we have trying to translate this experience is just that, we've never seen stuff like this before. But the practice bit is what I'd been thinking. I'll need to just bite the bullet and get in there lol. And I'm in the process of working through that link, there's tons of good info in that post. I'm also seeing lemon balm/tea being recommended a lot, which is kind of interesting, as I know shamans will use lemon to bring someone back down to a manageable level during aya ceremonies. Tempted to have a bottle of lemon juice nearby when I trip now :lol:

Thank you for the input

 

[Voidmatrix]

Void, I just want to thank you for the ideas and messages you bring here. Not just on my posts, but I see you everywhere lmao, even older posts from 2016~. I love it.

Introducing harmalas to the mix will most likely alleviate some anxiety and fear (like in a changa blend or drinking rue tea before take-off)

I'd been thinking about that, honestly. Maybe a b. caapi extract dissolved into hot water. I'd need to do my research again though, I vaguely remember something about certain foods and drinks needing to be avoided before taking it.

And it's kind of reassuring knowing even veterans to this molecule have second thoughts of some kind.

Out memories work by calling on a relation of something to remember something else. Most of what we see in these spaces has no counterpart in the real world, thus making it harder to remember.

That's valid. I think the biggest problem we have trying to translate this experience is just that, we've never seen stuff like this before. But the practice bit is what I'd been thinking. I'll need to just bite the bullet and get in there lol. And I'm in the process of working through that link, there's tons of good info in that post. I'm also seeing lemon balm/tea being recommended a lot, which is kind of interesting, as I know shamans will use lemon to bring someone back down to a manageable level during aya ceremonies. Tempted to have a bottle of lemon juice nearby when I trip now :lol:

Thank you for the input

Maybe we could call it forum or thread promiscuity :lol:

In regards to diet, harmalas are weak MAOIs, so you probably don't need to worry too much about what you intake. From what I recall, the concern with MAOIs and certain foods is the risk of hypetensive crisis from too much tyramine being built up in the body. When first interacting with harmalas, both in smoalking and orally, I had adhered to diet recommendations for MAOIs in general. Further research, other Nexians, and experience has shown me (at least for myself) that with harmalas adhering to a diet can be helpful but doesn't seem to be totally necessary.

I am currently on the fence about journeying today. The bowl is packed with a new batch of changa, but there are somethings in the air about how the rest of my day will go, as well as dealing with the usual trepidation.

And exactly: no reference to recall the experience. It's a pretty wild accent of the DMT experience. And don't be afraid to lower dose to get better acclimated. There are many that will talk down about sub-breakthroughs and other low level experiences, but there's a lot of value in them ime. People talk about there breakthrough very often, but one doesn't have to go that far. Feel it out for yourself.

One love

 

[stoneybalogna]

I'm laughing at the forum promiscuity lmao, you dog!

From what I recall, the concern with MAOIs and certain foods is the risk of hypetensive crisis from too much tyramine being built up in the body

More or less word for word from the mayo clinic lol. And I did a quick google search myself to see what I could find, seems to confirm that a proper MAOI diet isn't totally necessary, as RIMAs are a kind of subclass of MAOIs(confirms what you said, weak MAOIs)? Seems like the biggest problem would come from medication interactions and alcohol, which I shouldn't need to worry about. I'll still probably avoid most of what's on the clinic's list, just to be safe. Or at least smaller portions.

Now, I'm assuming you prefer smoking when harmalas are involved? Do you try to fast at all before going for it, or change how you're eating that day at all? Have you noticed any change if you have? I think I might go the changa route myself, as it seems fairly easy to make. I'm leaning towards mullein as my base herb(?)/primary herb(?).

And as far as low doses, I might try a 10mg trip or two tonight. My last trip Saturday kind of left me reeling, and I've been more than happy to just look at my stash :lol: I'm gonna figure this stuff out! If I can slow the trip down at all, I feel that would help immensely as far as comprehension goes.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'm laughing at the forum promiscuity lmao, you dog!

From what I recall, the concern with MAOIs and certain foods is the risk of hypetensive crisis from too much tyramine being built up in the body

More or less word for word from the mayo clinic lol. And I did a quick google search myself to see what I could find, seems to confirm that a proper MAOI diet isn't totally necessary, as RIMAs are a kind of subclass of MAOIs(confirms what you said, weak MAOIs)? Seems like the biggest problem would come from medication interactions and alcohol, which I shouldn't need to worry about. I'll still probably avoid most of what's on the clinic's list, just to be safe. Or at least smaller portions.

Now, I'm assuming you prefer smoking when harmalas are involved? Do you try to fast at all before going for it, or change how you're eating that day at all? Have you noticed any change if you have? I think I might go the changa route myself, as it seems fairly easy to make. I'm leaning towards mullein as my base herb(?)/primary herb(?).

And as far as low doses, I might try a 10mg trip or two tonight. My last trip Saturday kind of left me reeling, and I've been more than happy to just look at my stash :lol: I'm gonna figure this stuff out! If I can slow the trip down at all, I feel that would help immensely as far as comprehension goes.

And yeah, I should've said RIMAs lol. Been a long day.

Don't know if I can say that it is a preference. I still go for rocket rides. It's more that changa is easier to prepare than freebase DMT (I double check the doses I weigh out for freebase whereas I just plop some in my changa pipe and go about my ritual). But I do love harmalas! I love it when I am three to four hours fasted, but my absolute minimum is two. I notice a variety of differences. Intensity is usually greater in a fasted state, if purging is necessary (which for me personally, with changa, is a regular occurrence) then there's less to come up, limiting risks of choking and whatnot, and I feel more in touch with the experience. I should note, I pretty much always fast some before ANY psychedelic endeavor. Mullein is imo a perfect base for changa since it is so absorbent. I actually just made an enhanced leaf using Mullein only.

I find that low doses can help alleviate the more detrimental feelings of reeling or getting thrown by an experience. Low doses can also be an invaluable tool at integrating past experiences.

If you want to add harmalas, but don't have everything you need to make changa, then roast some Syrian Rue seeds, boil and reduce in acidic water, drink, wait 15-30 min, then take your journey. I'd recommend somewhere between 3-3.5g of seeds. This thread can get you started on roasting method.



One love

 

[stoneybalogna]

It's more that changa is easier to prepare than freebase DMT

That's what I'd been seeing in general, yeah. I've had problems getting the freebase into my vapor genie, mostly because I've only got razor blades I'm using. Can I assume the changa is also active in the mg range? I've seen people mention something like, 1g DMT, 1g herb, ~400mg harmala. And if that's a common recipe, I might end up waiting to make some lol. I baaarely broke 1g with the 200g of bark I had, but I attribute most of that to my first extraction. Changed some steps after I pulled maybe a little over 60mg, first and second pulls combined. Third didn't net anything worth scraping.

I will admit the purging makes me nervous, but if people can chuck up their guts in a jungle while tripping sack, I think I can do it in the comfort of my home :lol: I'm hoping fasting would limit the potential for nausea. And I'm glad the mullein info I'd read was valid! Hell, my grandpa grows some I think, couldn't tell ya what for lol.

roast some Syrian Rue seeds, boil and reduce in acidic water, drink, wait 15-30 min, then take your journey

And would that syrian rue be better with the amount of DMT I have? Cuz that definitely doesn't sound bad at all. And I'm assuming I'd be separating the seeds from the water before consuming? Just to leave the vomit inducing stuff in the seed? Sorry for all the questions

 

[Voidmatrix]

It's more that changa is easier to prepare than freebase DMT

That's what I'd been seeing in general, yeah. I've had problems getting the freebase into my vapor genie, mostly because I've only got razor blades I'm using. Can I assume the changa is also active in the mg range? I've seen people mention something like, 1g DMT, 1g herb, ~400mg harmala. And if that's a common recipe, I might end up waiting to make some lol. I baaarely broke 1g with the 200g of bark I had, but I attribute most of that to my first extraction. Changed some steps after I pulled maybe a little over 60mg, first and second pulls combined. Third didn't net anything worth scraping.

I will admit the purging makes me nervous, but if people can chuck up their guts in a jungle while tripping sack, I think I can do it in the comfort of my home :lol: I'm hoping fasting would limit the potential for nausea. And I'm glad the mullein info I'd read was valid! Hell, my grandpa grows some I think, couldn't tell ya what for lol.

roast some Syrian Rue seeds, boil and reduce in acidic water, drink, wait 15-30 min, then take your journey

And would that syrian rue be better with the amount of DMT I have? Cuz that definitely doesn't sound bad at all. And I'm assuming I'd be separating the seeds from the water before consuming? Just to leave the vomit inducing stuff in the seed? Sorry for all the questions

No need to apologize. I like helping in anyway I can.

You can also lower everything but keep the same ratios. 500mg DMT, 500mg herbs, 150mg harmala extract for example. I add 300mg of harmala per gram of DMT. Some do more, some do less. Try drinking this about 15 minutes prior to take off. Last Monday, I drank some of this and had a grand time without any purging.

Mullein is also easy on the lungs which gives me more reason to use it. I currently have four batches of changa and most of them have Mullein. Another herb that is great as an absorbent base herb is marshmallow leaf.

That amount of rue should be good for almost any level. It'll potentiate and lengthen the experience while adding it's own flavor of things to the mix. And yeah, filter out the seeds. You'll no longer need them after boiling.

Hmmmm, now you've got me thinking; should I smaolk some enhanced leaf after finishing my nightly rue tea (with sleepytime extra)?



One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I'm glad the mullein info I'd read was valid! Hell, my grandpa grows some I think, couldn't tell ya what for lol.

The flowers are used as a traditional remedy for earache, in the form of an infused oil.

 

[stoneybalogna]

All right, Void, that recipe actually sounds really damn good lol. Bookmarked mostly for future mush trips, but also in case of nausea with harmalas

500mg DMT, 500mg herbs, 150mg harmala extract for example

Ah, duh. I should have realized that was an option lmao. Maybe not so far in the future then, just need the herbs and harmalas then Might even get some syrian rue to take on its own just to get a feel for that, first. And what's that saying on here...? :? Ah, right, smoalk moar! But only if you're feeling it, of course Take it easy, brother

And DFZ, that could very well be why he grows it then. I know he's into natural remedies, as often as he can find them.

 

[roninsina]

I really liked your approach to describing your experience, Stoney. I often get hung up trying to describe the impossibly shifting imagery, when the visions are often just a subtext to what’s actually happening.

 

[stoneybalogna]

Cheers, Ronin I'd wanted to describe the visuals a little better, but again, had problems remembering them. I was left with the impression of being completely dumbfounded by what I was seeing. I think the most interesting thing about this trip was being able to observe my thoughts properly, which I didn't really mention. Meditation is supposed to be like watching cars go down the street in front of you, not getting attached to individual vehicles(thoughts), and this felt very much like that. Obviously, I'm aware of being unable to control my thoughts, things will come and go as they please, regardless of whether or not I want to think them, but it seemed so much more meaningful and obvious to me that these thoughts weren't being produced actively by me. I'm eager to get into DMT on a deeper level, but I'm happy to take it slow for now. Much love

 

[roninsina]

That’s a nice vehicle for describing meditation (please excuse the terrible pun) and it was an an unusually strong reminder of some years gone by for me. I had a very strong meditation practice from the time I was in preadolescense until I started having children, at which point I decided I simply didn’t have enough time and it wasn’t relevant/necessary. The benefits have slowly blown away in the wind over the last fifteen years, and you’re reminding me (along with a post by skoobysnax a few days ago) how important and valuable meditation is. I’ve started again.

And I wouldn’t worry about a little squirming on the way into hyperspace. I’ve definitely wanted to run away from what was about to happen and only couldn’t because the visions were blinding my waking eyes. I been to the hospital with a couple of women about to have their first child, and both changed their mind about giving birth and wanted to leave the hospital; as the desire to escape the magnitude of what was about to happen, made rational thought regarding that particular decision, impossible.