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Research 5-MeO-DMT salts for e-juice

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The Traveler

The Traveler

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Since we have a great topic about DMT salts for e-juice I thought it would be interesting to make another one for 5-MeO-DMT as well.

Before this I already had made 5-MeO-DMT e-juice with freebase and found it working very well, dosing with the vape was easy and also very handy to slowly dose more of the 5-MeO-DMT as needed for a deep journey.

The only downside of this mix was that I found it to be quite caustic.


So today I did the following:
  • Took 7ml PG.
  • Added 1g 5-MeO-DMT freebase.
  • Stirred well until all 5-MeO-DMT was dissolved.
  • Took a pH sample (see below).

  • Calculated that for a 1:1 mol ratio of 5-MeO-DMT with citric acid acid I needed 0.88g of citric acid.
  • I added only 500mg of citric acid to the mix of PG with 5-MeO-DMT and waiting until all was dissolved.
  • I took another pH sample (see below) and thought this pH was good enough and I did not need to add more citric acid.

  • After the mix was cooled down, it was sucked up into a syringe, the total volume was slightly more than 8ml.
  • I topped it up to 10ml with VG, then sucked in a bit more air into the syringe so I could shake it well to mix it thoroughly.

Here is a picture of the pH samples, left is for the freebase, right is with the 500mg of citric acid added (so a 1 : 0.5 ratio of 5-MeO-DMT : citric acid per weight):

1711062145725.png

Now that this work is done, I will test it very slowly to see what the effects of this new mix is and how it feels.

1711062947208.png


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Very interested to hear how this goes. The majority of my own 5-MeO-DMT salt + e-juice experience is with fumarate. And as has been mentioned in other threads, the fumarate taste could be described as "foul" lol. Even with the bad taste, I still found it preferable to freebase.

Another quirk of the PG/5-MeO-DMT fumarate mix was that I could only produce a ~7:1 ratio at best. Any stronger would cause the mix to crystallize after cooling to room temperature while in the vape pod. I wonder if citrate has the potential to be stronger.
 
First results are in: is is very smooth.

No adverse reactions noticed compared to the freebase version, it was an amazing ride.

It is so smooth that the only notice that you vaped it is the typical smell of 5-MeO-DMT when you breathe out through your nose.

The taste is almost none and not foul at all, one thing though: I could feel my teeth more than usual, so it might react with your enamel and I'm not sure how healthy that is, it might be wise to use a good neutralizing mouth wash before and after your vaping session!


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
famine said:
Have you tried increasing your inhale duration? When I exhale there is no vapour. I use freebase + peg400 as carrier.
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I did, and somehow I always ended up with this stingy end result on my lips with the freebase, maybe it is not only from the exhaling but also what just ends up in my mouth? When inhaling it already feels caustic to me, though the stinging result on my lips is what made me decide to go the salting route.

Seeing the pH of the freebase compared to the (partly) salted citrate form makes me think that 5-MeO-DMT freebase can indeed be quite caustic on it's own.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
The Traveler said:
It is stated shortly in the OP:

Freebase for me would even be that caustic that I could feel it working, like stinging on my lips, after breathing out.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
Click to expand...
For nicotine juices, bioavailability/effects where measured to be improved for nicotine salts vs freebase. Perhaps simply because at neutral pH it plays better with the body (blood soluble, ect). There is a reference to the data in the DMT salt thread mentioned in the first post of this thread.

It isn't unreasonable to postulate that DMT and 5-MeO-DMT could see a similar boost.

Question for Trav: why use 1:1 molar ratio? citric acid can donate up to 3 hydrogens. Also, comercial quality nicotine salts are measured to be ~10% freebase still. I would start at 1:0.25 ratio for 5MeO and citric. That may take care of the feeling in the teeth and still not be caustic.
 
Loveall said:
Question for Trav: why use 1:1 molar ratio? citric acid can donate up to 3 hydrogens. Also, comercial quality nicotine salts are measured to be ~10% freebase still. I would start at 1:0.25 ratio for 5MeO and citric. That may take care of the feeling in the teeth and still not be caustic.
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So with that in mind, would a 1:0.25 ratio theoretically replace all freebase 5-MeO-DMT with citrate, or is the ratio slightly less than would be needed for that?
 
Here&Now said:
So with that in mind, would a 1:0.25 ratio theoretically replace all freebase 5-MeO-DMT with citrate, or is the ratio slightly less than would be needed for that?
Click to expand...
Citric acid, being a 'tribasic' acid, could in principle react with three equivalents of (monoacidic) base, i.e. about 0.33:1 substituted tryptamine to citrate ratio. In view of the nicotine data given by @Loveall, you could try estimating what percentage of unreacted 5-MeO-DMT remains as freebase when a 1:0.25 ratio is used instead.
 
Just reporting back, I experienced no issues mixing all the ingredients at a 1:0.25:4 ratio. It has remained liquid after multiple days.
 
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