AC/ATB extraction questions

[mrabc]

Hallo Community,

i've few questions using an AC/ATB extraction. My first extraction with joshisom's tek failed. I've used 100g acacia confusa bark. I'm not sure where the problem really occurred. I don't had any ph meter. Maybe too much of acetic acid or naoh, overheating, no distilled water. My final product was enough goo to smoke
2 changa cigarettes. It was disappointing and disgusting.

On my second try i used 250g and started with Cybs' Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek. On the first step "Freeze/Thaw" my laboratory glass bursts while heating after freezing. So i just picked up the glass of the pod and leave all my other ingredients inside to heat it for 8-(14) hours. I've cooked it down to something like 500ml - 800ml of acid solution with plant material. Because i was not sure about the quality of my root bark i took half glass it orally with an MAOI. I got an mid trip and i was happy.
Now all the is frozen for few days.

Here are my questions...

1.Defat: Should i really defat. I'm not sure how much and what i gonna lose with a procedure like this. I like a big yield. But i don't know either how scrap the goo and i like the sniff final product.

2.Base: The first time the non polar solvent was always separated in few seconds after mixing with the solution. Is it my NPS or too much of naoh. I like to keep the plant material inside but i'm not sure about the wastewater pipe of an old house. I know that lye is great for clearing mess out it the pipe but the material is like powder sand.

3.NPS: With mixing it by hand the NPS do not combine with the solution and i was curious about the pressure inside the container because the NPS evaporates very fast. I ended up with eggbeater and an open container while heating. Works great for me so far.

4.Separation: I had really problems with a turkey baster so i bought a precise syringe. Do i need to use an cool fan to evaporate it faster? I've only hot hair drier and i think this is a bad idea.

 

[LysergicBliss]

Here's my thoughts:

1. You shouldn't lose any DMT in the defatting step, since the DMT is in salt form at this stage and won't go into the non-polar solvent. Defatting gets rid of a lot of the plant oils so you end up with a more pure/less oily product. If you're going to do a wash/recrystallization at the end it might not be as important, but doesn't hurt.

2. I'm not sure if I understand the question. The NP solvent should not be mixing with the aqueous layer. If it does mix, or not separate completely, do a search on how to separate emulsions.

3. I assume you're using naphtha like the tek says? Some pressure will build in the container but not enough to worry about. If you're worried you can loosen the lid of the container a bit to vent it, but it's not necessary.

4. I wouldn't use a hot hairdryer if you can help it. Use a cool fan. If you don't have one let it sit in a ventilated area to evaporate.

Since you're just starting out, I would highly recommend following the tek exactly as written before trying variations.

It sounds like you're using a lot of heat in your procedure too. You used enough heat to break your glass container at least; that's too much heat. Which part of the tek is the heat for? I hope you aren't getting it that hot with naphtha in it.

 

[mrabc]

Hallo LysergicBliss,

thanks for your answers.

2. It should not mix? How the NPS should take the alkaloids? It mixes while i'm heating and mixing it with enough strength. It separates quite quickly as well. Maybe around max 8 sec.

The glass container get broken because i does not let it cool down after freezing. I heat not really too hot. I think i need a fan...

 

[LysergicBliss]

2. It should not mix? How the NPS should take the alkaloids? It mixes while i'm heating and mixing it with enough strength. It separates quite quickly as well. Maybe around max 8 sec.

No, the nonpolar solvent shouldn't mix with the basified aqueous solvent layer. But the freebased alkaloids will still migrate into the nonpolar layer since they are more soluble in the nonpolar solvent than the aqueous solvent after basifying. Since the nonpolar and polar solvents don't mix, it allows you to separate and save the nonpolar layer than now has most of the goodies, while the aqueous layer has all the leftover plant material. To make sure you get the most alkaloids out of the bark this is repeated a couple more times with clean nonpolar solvent (saving the NP solvent each time and combining the 3 pulls in the end) Then evap or freeze precip the DMT out of that nonpolar solvent.

Yeah, if you mix or shake the container the layers can mix briefly and separate out quickly. If you mix TOO hard then it may not separate completely and then you have an emulsion which is annoying to work with, but there are ways to deal with it. Gentle mixing is best for avoiding emulsions and still gives similar yields in the end.

Good luck

 

[Metanoia]

Hallo Community,

i've few questions using an AC/ATB extraction. My first extraction with joshisom's tek failed. I've used 100g acacia confusa bark. I'm not sure where the problem really occurred. I don't had any ph meter. Maybe too much of acetic acid or naoh, overheating, no distilled water. My final product was enough goo to smoke
2 changa cigarettes. It was disappointing and disgusting.

On my second try i used 250g and started with Cybs' Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek. On the first step "Freeze/Thaw" my laboratory glass bursts while heating after freezing. So i just picked up the glass of the pod and leave all my other ingredients inside to heat it for 8-(14) hours. I've cooked it down to something like 500ml - 800ml of acid solution with plant material. Because i was not sure about the quality of my root bark i took half glass it orally with an MAOI. I got an mid trip and i was happy.
Now all the is frozen for few days.

Here are my questions...

1.Defat: Should i really defat. I'm not sure how much and what i gonna lose with a procedure like this. I like a big yield. But i don't know either how scrap the goo and i like the sniff final product.

2.Base: The first time the non polar solvent was always separated in few seconds after mixing with the solution. Is it my NPS or too much of naoh. I like to keep the plant material inside but i'm not sure about the wastewater pipe of an old house. I know that lye is great for clearing mess out it the pipe but the material is like powder sand.

3.NPS: With mixing it by hand the NPS do not combine with the solution and i was curious about the pressure inside the container because the NPS evaporates very fast. I ended up with eggbeater and an open container while heating. Works great for me so far.

4.Separation: I had really problems with a turkey baster so i bought a precise syringe. Do i need to use an cool fan to evaporate it faster? I've only hot hair drier and i think this is a bad idea.

1.) Defatting seems to be a waste of solvent, and time, in my opinion. It's not necessary. If you do a mini A/B after your initial pulls, it will clean it up very nicely and you won't waste solvent defatting before basing.

2.) It's a good thing if your solvent is separating quickly Gently rolling, turning end over end, or the motion like you're peddling a bicycle is enough to allow the DMT to migrate over to the NPS. If your base and solvent is warm, it will separate faster. If the solvent has some oils/fats in it, it will also separate quicker (if the NPS looks yellow). As for putting base down the drain, it's perfectly safe. Solvent, not so much.

3.) Mixing it with a whisk (egg beater) is probably a bad idea. Whisking incorporates air into whatever it is you're whisking. It would be better to stir it, or gently roll/bike peddle with the lid on. Pressure will build up if you shake/mix too hard, or if the base/solvent is too hot. It's nothing to really worry about if you release the pressure by opening the lid from time to time. And always wear safety equipment! (goggles, gloves)

4.) You just need a normal everyday fan. DO NOT use a hair dryer! :thumb_up: You're just trying to evaporate any solvent that's left before your DMT can dissolve back into it as it warms up at room temperature. What I do is pour off the solvent, then put the dish back in the freezer on its side so that the rest of the solvent can run down to the corner, then I pour that off and put it directly in front of a fan. An hour or two is usually all it takes to evaporate any remaining solvent.


My advice is to follow Earthwalker's tek, it includes the mini A/B step. I find that the freeze/thaw isn't really necessary if you have your bark powdered really finely and you do the acid bath/soak for 8 - 10 hours rather than just 1 or 2 hours.

 

[LysergicBliss]

What I do is pour off the solvent, then put the dish back in the freezer on its side so that the rest of the solvent can run down to the corner, then I pour that off and put it directly in front of a fan.

That's very clever. That last bit of solvent after pouring is annoying. It's not much but it's enough that it dissolves a non-negligible amount of crystal faster than the time it would take for it to drip out at room temp. I normally just leave it with the DMT and evaporate it, but your protocol sounds better. Thanks

 

[mrabc]

Thanks for yours answers. Maybe i should leave the egg beater.

Step. 1 Mini A/B
Are the layers right?

 

[Metanoia]

Which step in the mini A/B is this? It's hard to tell from the pic.

 

[mrabc]

It's CLEAN UP STEP 3. Where is my NPS layer. Top, middle or bottom? Seems like middle anyway. Just to be sure before starting.

 

[whippits]

It's CLEAN UP STEP 3. Where is my NPS layer. Top, middle or bottom? Seems like middle anyway. Just to be sure before starting.

If you're ever not sure about which layer it is, think about the volume of each solution.

The top layer is rather thin compared to the middle layer, while the bottom layer is far too large to be the NPS. This points to the conclusion that the middle layer is your NPS.

Often times when performing tek's, using simple observations can lead you to your answer.

Also, regarding your mini A/B:

Your basic solution should typically not be that dark unless you had a lot of impurities in your initial product. Also, without those impurities you won't get that layer of plant fats/oils.

Striving to obtain as pure a product as possible, even if you know you will later purify more, will lead to better results.

 

[Metanoia]

regarding your mini A/B:

Your basic solution should typically not be that dark unless you had a lot of impurities in your initial product. Also, without those impurities you won't get that layer of plant fats/oils.

This is why I was confused as to which step you were at. When I do a mini A/B the basic liquid is very milky or almost clear (when it has settled over ~24 hours) I don't get fatty layers in the mini either. One piece of advice I can give you is to be very careful how much you agitate your solvent + base liquid in the mini A/B. It's very easy to form emulsions; that's something I've had troubles with because I tend to shake my vessels rather than be gentle and roll them slowly. The middle layer you have in that pic could be a mess of emulsion, but as I said it's hard to tell.

Let it settle for 24 hours and see if the layer separate further.

 

[mrabc]

Seems like middle anyway. Just to be sure before starting.

The top layer is not really visible, that's why i ask.

I just copied the picture from Earthwalker's tek thread and labeled it.