Acacia Longifolia Acid/Base extraction question

[Psychotropica]

Hi! where do i start.. My material is Acacia Longifolia bark and i am using the a/b tech to extract my dmt. I have been cutting my bark into strips and then blending this into small pieces and dust, which is then cooked in acid water (ph 3-4) for about two hours, then the bark matter is strained out and the water has turned a deep red colour by this time. i then reduce it down to about 750ml's and basify with pure NaOH until it turns a dark reddish/black colour. All standard procedure i know, but it is what happens next that gets me. after about one minute after basifying little clumps of a white substance begins to float to the surface of the liquid and forms a thick oil type layer on top. if i add a few hundred ml's of naptha, this substance migrates into the non-polar layer and appears to be a white salt that is very insoluble even at very high temperatures in the naptha (it just settles to the bottom). I am curious if this is dmt or NaOH or ???. As an experiment i tried to dissolve some NaOH in warm naptha and it appeared to be totally insoluble so i figured that this mystery substance is not sodium hydroxide but something else. Has anybody else experienced something similiar to what i have described? It has happened to me both times using tartaric acid and phosphoric acid so i am sure it isnt the acid that is playing tricks. has anyone ever had dmt immediatly start salting out and floating to the top of the basified acid extract? my yields are also below average so if anyone has any explanations or advice i would be very grateful to hear them!
Thanks in advance to an future responses to my queries - P:d

 

[lucas89]

swim has a simmilar amount of longifolia bark lying around... how did your extraction go? did you get anything? is this species worth it?

 

[Mister Y]

swim had exactly this occur with stb on a. maidenii and has wanted to know what it could possibly be

so its nothing to do with the acid... soaps fats?

if anybody has any idea swim would like to know also... the god of the winds (aeolus?) has blessed swim this day and uprooted an entire a longifolia snapped off at the root systems in a gale... its now swims ! will have an an a. longifolia extract done in the following week or so

 

[dg]

deffatting step. like an old qt tek

 

[picatris]

I've worked a lot with A. Longifolia and did several extractions. Unfortunately the results were dismal. I got once something out of the leaves, but it was probably mostly oils. From bark, I did once a 250 grams extraction and came out as precisely zero mg of alkaloids. I was working a simple A/B using naphtha as a solvent.

Also you do not need a defat for bark, as there are practically no oils there

I will nonetheless will follow this thread attentively, for I'm curious whether I was simply out of luck with the trees I chose (or time of the year, or region...)

 

[dg]

I've worked a lot with A. Longifolia and did several extractions. Unfortunately the results were dismal. I got once something out of the leaves, but it was probably mostly oils. From bark, I did once a 250 grams extraction and came out as precisely zero mg of alkaloids. I was working a simple A/B using naphtha as a solvent.

Also you do not need a defat for bark, as there are practically no oils there

I will nonetheless will follow this thread attentively, for I'm curious whether I was simply out of luck with the trees I chose (or time of the year, or region...)

ha!
no-one belived me years ago when i said there was no need to de-fat rb.
still, a healthy pull/defatting with xylene, or tolly might do the trick, especially in light of the op

 

[mumbles]

Lonifolia isn't worth the time. Swim knows someone who recovered maybe 80mg from 700g bark.

 

[Mister Y]

well swim claimed to have 1kg of shredded bark drying off from a dry defat ready to go, and also claimed to of read a report off the coroboree where a user claimed to of got over a gram of oily powerful xtal from 800gm of longifolia bark, which sounds more hopeful than the experiences posted in this thread...

something about longifolia bark is said to be very evil without considering alkaloid content, swim says his blender is broken because the bark was all red and resinous/gummy, this clogged up his blender and caused white puffs of smoke to appear and a bad whirring sound, later killing the blender dead . the redness of the bark reminded swim of the pictures of mimosa hostilis bark, all reddish, quite different to acacia maidenii which had no redness (although swim says he spotted one maidens very red in the colour of its bark and has considered testing it) . the hope is that the redness of the bark like the mhrb colour could be an indicator of potency... hope hope hope away.

also as for no defat needed... WTF swims acacia maidenii extractions without defatt results in a strong potent reddish orange oil with xtals in it ... huge amount of oil from fresh acacia bark... or so i am told by this swim character, shady fellow i wouldnt always trust him!

 

[mumbles]

There's nothing evil about bark hahaha, you just gummed up your blender with tar and oils, nothing more magical than that. Try grinding less at a time. The colour of the bark isn't an indicator of anything. Swim has never heard of people defatting with acuminata. Maybe longifolia is a special case, low yielding AND oily double score!

 

[picatris]

something about longifolia bark is said to be very evil without considering alkaloid content, swim says his blender is broken because the bark was all red and resinous/gummy, this clogged up his blender and caused white puffs of smoke to appear and a bad whirring sound, later killing the blender dead . the redness of the bark reminded swim of the pictures of mimosa hostilis bark, all reddish, quite different to acacia maidenii which had no redness (although swim says he spotted one maidens very red in the colour of its bark and has considered testing it) . the hope is that the redness of the bark like the mhrb colour could be an indicator of potency... hope hope hope away.

Yes, the bark is very red and really reminds one of MHRB. One suggestion to other blender owners out there is to cut the bark previously in small pieces of at most 1 square inch. in particular try to break the longitudinal fibers. I powdered my longifolia bark this way, and it was very effective.

also as for no defat needed... WTF swims acacia maidenii extractions without defatt results in a strong potent reddish orange oil with xtals in it ... huge amount of oil from fresh acacia bark... or so i am told by this swim character, shady fellow i wouldnt always trust him!

Perhaps that depends on the region where the acacia comes from or the extraction method. I used a simple A/B with a prolonged decanting phase between the A and the B.... Well I did not get anything, not even oils, so perhaps my own experience is not the best model to follow!

 

[Mister Y]

ooo!

yes the bark was cut to less than 1cm square actually and it was still completly helpless, less bark mite of helped it not to explode but yeah, still so sticky that in small quantities it would not powder it , with fibers always clumping and sticking to the blades, stopping them from effectivly chopping. it does however shred the bark effectivly.

unless this yield is particularly amazing then swim says he will not use longifolia again , purely because of the difficulty of working with the bark. and yes the similarity to MHRB did seem promising didn't it !

swim used a litre of pure gum turps for defat that he had lying around because it was an aromatic solvent, and has encountered an issue, evidentally his bark wasnt completly dry after dry defat, as the solvent reduced it smelt more and more strongly of eucalyptus, and after a days freezing the seemingly single state golden solvent seperated into a polar and non polar layer, thinking that the freezer had somehow managed to contaminate swims extract with water he sucked out the layer underneath the solvent, only to find it yellow and smelling of eucalyptus! upon refreezing and drip drying said layer has a faint smell of dmt and eucalyptus oil with no visible crystal formation, however it was small.

the rest of the solvent went back in the freezer and has much freefloating light coloured stuff at the bottom of the container, a similar issues to that encountered before while attempting freeze precipitation, a new topic has been posted calling for information on how to overcome this issue , asking questions and so forth, if anyone has something to add it would be much appreciated by swim...

i may be anthropomorphising bark by describing it as evil... but i stand by my claim , this bark has a heart as black as the void!

off topic

also swim tells me that he discovered new wattles not listed in information sources on naturalised wattles to his area, teal/silver green leaves quite similar to longifolia or maidenii... but a different colour, with cylindrical flowers of yellow, curved (falcate) thin fruits and brown bark. does anybody know this wattle?

the picture showing a green wattle next to said plant in question is a definite acacia maidenii with its curly fruits and notably darker green foliage.

 

[chocobeastie]

Longifolia and Maidenii are generally not worth bothering with.

Try Obtusifolia or Floribunda or Acuminata.

Floribunda is highly recommended as it is so common and you can get 0.3-4% out of the phyllodes.

You can extract from Obtusifolia phyllodes but the material tends to be variable with lots of different funny alkaloids drowning out the DMT.

Acuminata Phyllodes contain about 1-1.5% DMT.