ACRB Extraction Mystery (No yield)

[mdtraveler]

Hello all. Happy to be here.


An extraction was performed on 125g of ground/powdered ACRB. The Cyb/Earthwalker hybrid A/B Salt method was used and the procedure was followed exactly. All reagents were in the proper proportions, and pH was also measured where applicable just to be sure. HCL was used for acidifying the bark, and pure NaOH was used for basifying. Hot naphtha was used for the pulls, and the extraction vessel was heated in a water bath during all phases of the extraction. Everything went very smoothly, and the were no real problems to speak of....except one: No DMT has been obtained from this extraction. None. Zero. No "goo", no dirty powder, nothing. So I'm all ears for opinions on just where the hell the product is hiding. I have no real means of determining the quality of the bark, but it was obtained from what seemed to be a reputable business with many very positive reviews.

I've only done a couple of hot naphtha pulls on the post extraction cleanup step, but I went ahead and evaporated those pulls just to see how things were looking. After finding nothing to speak of in the evap dish, I decided to go ahead and evaporate the naphtha used for the pulls on the basified bark. (The solvent that was removed from the cleanup step after the DMT would have movd into the acidic aqueous layer.) No DMT (or anything else) showed up in the dish after the naphtha was finished evaporating, so the goods aren't there either. So the DMT is either still in the aqueous phase of the cleanup/defat/mini A/B or it's still in the bark, or it was never there to begin with.

The only part of the performed procedure that didn't exactly seem to match the written guide was that the aqueous phase of the cleanup A/B didn't turn milky/cloudy when the base was added, like the pictures in the writeup. Both the aqueous phase and the NPS were crystal clear. No plant fats or oils, bark particulates, or other contaminates were visible. I even shook the shit out of the 1L RBF I was using for the cleanup A/B to see if I could create an emulsion. I couldn't even do that. Perfect phase separation within 60 seconds. That, in and of itself, is unusual in my experience, so I checked the pH of the aqueous phase again to be sure, and it was between 13-14. So more than enough NaOH was used for the cleanup A/B.

I'm all out of ideas and things to try so I'm very open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[concombres]

Seems as if your problem may be your bark.
Even with operator error & loss you should have yeilded something.

There have been problems noted with HCL before, but I don`t think it would completely destroy every molecule of DMT in the plant matter. Methinks there is some sketchiness going on with ACRB as of late, this not the first mention I have seen of low quality material, however, it is the first I have seen of absolutely nothing being extracted.

 

[mdtraveler]

Seems as if your problem may be your bark.
Even with operator error & loss you should have yeilded something.

Yep that's what I was thinking. I have plenty of experience with A/B extractions with other materials, so I'm able to keep things pretty clean. But from everything I've seen and read concerning ACRB extractions, (first one attempted) there should have been at the very least some undesirable plant constituents iin the evap dish. With that thought in mind, I went ahead and added about 100ml of toluene to the extraction vessel and mixed it up really well around 18 hours ago. If toluene pulls yield nothing, then I'm really at a loss....

 

[TGO]

Quick question, was your bark pre-powdered or did you powder it yourself? I always try to steer clear of pre-powdered bark as anything could be in it.

If your extraction technique is sound and your bark is of good quality, then the results should be decent as well. I think perhaps the bark may be your culprit, unfortunately.

 

[mdtraveler]

Quick question, was your bark pre-powdered or did you powder it yourself? I always try to steer clear of pre-powdered bark as anything could be in it.

If your extraction technique is sound and your bark is of good quality, then the results should be decent as well. I think perhaps the bark may be your culprit, unfortunately.

It was coarse shredded bark. I spent quite a bit of time cutting it into small enough pieces to lessen the load on the blender I used to powder it. I still have quite a bit left, so I'll snap a couple pics of it when I get home to give you an idea of hat I was working with. I have absolutely no previous experience with Acacia bark, so I wouldn't be able to tell if what I had was the right thing or not.
I'm considering using salt to totally saturate the aqueous phase of the cleanup A/B to see if it may help force the DMT into the NPS. I know that freebase DMT isn't soluble in water and it should have moved into the solvent on it' own (if there was ever any in there to begin with). It can't hurt to try it, seeing as how nothing else has worked....

 

[concombres]

Quick question, was your bark pre-powdered or did you powder it yourself? I always try to steer clear of pre-powdered bark as anything could be in it.

If your extraction technique is sound and your bark is of good quality, then the results should be decent as well. I think perhaps the bark may be your culprit, unfortunately.

It was coarse shredded bark. I spent quite a bit of time cutting it into small enough pieces to lessen the load on the blender I used to powder it. I still have quite a bit left, so I'll snap a couple pics of it when I get home to give you an idea of hat I was working with. I have absolutely no previous experience with Acacia bark, so I wouldn't be able to tell if what I had was the right thing or not.
I'm considering using salt to totally saturate the aqueous phase of the cleanup A/B to see if it may help force the DMT into the NPS. I know that freebase DMT isn't soluble in water and it should have moved into the solvent on it' own (if there was ever any in there to begin with). It can't hurt to try it, seeing as how nothing else has worked....

Best option imo is large chunks rather than shredded or powdered.
That way you can get an idea of what you have & compare to what it should look like. Breaking the bark down in this stage is a pain but it is well worth the effort to know what you have is not just sawdust & food coloring or some random bark ran through a wood chipper.

 

[mdtraveler]

Best option imo is large chunks rather than shredded or powdered.
That way you can get an idea of what you have & compare to what it should look like. Breaking the bark down in this stage is a pain but it is well worth the effort to know what you have is not just sawdust & food coloring or some random bark ran through a wood chipper.

Here's a photo of the bark that was used. Does it look right?

 

[null24]

Looks like outer root bark but appears to be ACRB. Pics kinda blurry. Is it a very hard material?

I dont know man , I've used outer and while yield was small, it was there

 

[Felnik]

I think there's alot of sub par bark around I've had similar issues

 

[concombres]

Does look to be outer rootbark or possibly trunk bark. It can be hard to tell sometimes with acacia especially since some parts of the actual root seem to grow above ground , get that texture like the trunk bark has.

Maybe a similar species & you have misidentified bark?

I cannot say much due to the rules here, just spend some time looking around at different images of root bark & reading up on inner v.S. outer so you have a better idea of what the differences are.
If you have your heart set on extracting some spice be patient, be smart, & keep at it. Crap bark happens sometimes.
At the very least you have materials left over for next time & know where good bark is not :thumb_up:

 

[NotTwo]

Did it turn burgundy red in the acid phase?

 

[mdtraveler]

Did it turn burgundy red in the acid phase?

Very much so. Looked like a jar full of blood.

 

[machine.elf]

Hello! Im totally new here and this will be my second ever post next to my intro one, but I just wanted to say I had a very similar experience trying to extract from ACRB, though mine was powdered (partner sourced it, not me and therefore was unaware powdered was not the best in most peoples opinion) and i did get something in my evaporations but whatever the hell it was, was next to impossible to smoke and i dont believe had any dmt within... so frustrating! I did note that I accidentally used iodised salt and also when trying to acidify with vinegar... it took 410mls (adding at first 20mls at a time then 50mls... damn buffering capacity) to reach a pH of 3.0! Not sure whether that affected it any... anyways.. i dont mean to hijack your thread but just wanted to say - argh yes, quite frustrating what gives damn ACRB I want my goodies! hahah

 

[NotTwo]

The only part of the performed procedure that didn't exactly seem to match the written guide was that the aqueous phase of the cleanup A/B didn't turn milky/cloudy when the base was added

Well in fact it should turn positively black when basifying as well as being cloudy.

Maybe you could do a quick STB on some RB (if you have some left over). Just do one pull on it with the naphtha and check out what you get. If you get nothing then chances are you've got a dud batch. I've had some really low yields before now with ACRB but never zero.

 

[mdtraveler]

The only part of the performed procedure that didn't exactly seem to match the written guide was that the aqueous phase of the cleanup A/B didn't turn milky/cloudy when the base was added

Well in fact it should turn positively black when basifying as well as being cloudy.

Maybe you could do a quick STB on some RB (if you have some left over). Just do one pull on it with the naphtha and check out what you get. If you get nothing then chances are you've got a dud batch. I've had some really low yields before now with ACRB but never zero.

I was referring to the second A/B in the process, during the defat/cleanup stage when I made the comment about the aqueous phase not turning white. But, it is possible that more base is needed. The extraction mixture did turn very dark after the NaOH was added, but HCL is a strong acid and it's possible that the pH wasn't quite low enough to base the alkaloids. There really isn't a good way to test the pH with litmus paper, because of the color of the solution, so I guess one more thing to try would be to add more base, and see what happens.

 

[null24]

The only part of the performed procedure that didn't exactly seem to match the written guide was that the aqueous phase of the cleanup A/B didn't turn milky/cloudy when the base was added

Well in fact it should turn positively black when basifying as well as being cloudy.

Maybe you could do a quick STB on some RB (if you have some left over). Just do one pull on it with the naphtha and check out what you get. If you get nothing then chances are you've got a dud batch. I've had some really low yields before now with ACRB but never zero.

I was referring to the second A/B in the process, during the defat/cleanup stage when I made the comment about the aqueous phase not turning white. But, it is possible that more base is needed. The extraction mixture did turn very dark after the NaOH was added, but HCL is a strong acid and it's possible that the pH wasn't quite low enough to base the alkaloids. There really isn't a good way to test the pH with litmus paper, because of the color of the solution, so I guess one more thing to try would be to add more base, and see what happens.

Yep most def should turn milky white on the second a/b. the absence of that indicates your spice wasn't there at that stage.

Not two, CAN an STB be performed on ACRB? Doesn't fat content preclude that ?

Damn man, I'd try a different source, after of course retrying on your remaining bark. Use vinegar as acid, it works.

Sorry to hear your difficulties, extracting is fun and exciting and being disappointed after the process could be discouraging. It takes several times to get ones tek down, ime, but you'll get it! Keep it up and you'll be rewarded. Nothing like making your own stash.

 

[mdtraveler]

The remaining bark yielded absolutely zilch. No fats, oils, goo or anything else. It almost seems like this bark had previously been stripped of everything with alcohol or something.
More bark from a different supplier should be here in the near future. Hopefully it will be better.

 

[null24]

That's bad, man.
Let us know how it goes next time.

 

[BotanyBro]

This seems to match exactly what swim have been going through... except swim used the same bark that had used before and got grams of crystals. The Naptha Solvent now is almost clear and there is considerable more emulsions. swim made a video the last time of the naptha seperating from the base soup and the reaction was quite rapid, the naptha turned thick milky, this time however the reaction is not rapid. swims only reason for this is that it's not a high enough PH, but swims already added 300gr extra Lye to the solution. The base is not pure black, it's like very very very dark red, almost black. it seems it just won't go pure black swim says. swim made the Acid Soup very concentrated to the point it was almost dark black in it's self. swim cooked up 2.6KG of bark 4times with tap water about 90 mins each, The final acid soup was about 2L very concentrated dark red, swim was excited!

Everything seemed fine, for my acidification swim used a mixture of diluted Hydrochloric Acid and there was some citric thrown in there too. Previously swim had only used Citric acid, but this time to save costs swim decided to use a cleaner that swim found to be diluted hydrochloric acid, confidently thinking it would be fine as acid is acid! swim Ph seemed about 3 according to the litmus.

swim can't figure out why it's not working the same way as last time, it's the same bark. The bark had been left in a bag outside in the shed for months, it had some mold and was generally less red than fresh, but once swim started cutting up, fresh red meat was within, so the bark must be good!? Still trying to find the culprite and the best answer is still it's not high enough Ph swim reckons

Is it possible that the Acid Soup was so concentrated and low PH that it would take an enormous amount of base to get it to the high PH ?

Appreciate any input,

Cheers.

 

[poisonous cat turd]

There is no need for acid. Just base. If one were to test pH of soln. of just the powdered bark in dH2O it will come back under 7.

Sasha mentions never having had luck forming the hydrogen chloride salt of DMT. Perhaps it is becoming entangled more in the plant cell matrix rather than being extracted. Also any molecule exposed to prolonged heating along with strong hydroxide is bound to decompose. I would suggest avoiding adding heat, except to warm the naphtha. By doing multiple pulls with hot solvent the base soln. will equilibrate some but what you want is to take advantage of DMTs greater affinity for the hot solvent vs. base soup.

It may just be shart bark, as well.