Advice on challenging mushroom trips please

[Davski]

I have been using psychedelics now more regularly over the last 6 years or so. I have had quite a few acid trips and dimitri trips and all have been good learning experiences and also very enjoyable. Its helped me become more spiritual and more understanding of myself and this reality of this human experience. I love exploring consciousness, watching and reading about it and all the theories, there is so much more that these medicines teach me and keep teaching me and I am very grateful I have access too them. I have had some very interesting and loving experiences but
don't get me wrong I have had some difficult experiences on them.
I respect these medicines alpt and i always approach with anxiety but also excitement. I find DMT to be one which causes the most anxiety, the preflight anxiety can get pretty strong.
Since last year I have been using JMF mushrooms from 3 to 4g via lemon tek and I use them every 3 weeks to help me with mental health issues as I refuse to go back on medications to treat my OCD and the baggage that comes with it, depression, anxiety etc. Even on 3gs I have amazing visuals of entities, parrell worlds, alien world's, which are similar too DMT which makes sense as the chemical structure is very close however my ego is still very much more in tact compared to DMT.
After an hour to 2hrs after the CEV and OEV start wrapping up my mind starts to rumerniate about the failures, mess ups, regrets that I have in my life.
I understand that this is hard for me but I do appreciate the reality checks that they give me but as I tell my girlfriend, mushrooms feel brutal. I appreciate the reality checks and I appreciate this experience being human.
I also really like that for 2 to 3 weeks after a trip my head is more incontrol off the OCD puppet and I feel alot less depressed and anxious.

I have read and watched alot of mushroom trip reports and there are alot where its all rainbows and milkshakes and pure love. I haven't had any experiences that felt like that, yes the visuals etc have been fun, sometimes tho not pleasant but after this part the negative head of regrets and all all other negative thinking kicks in. As mentioned even tho challenging there are postives to all of this.
I am just curious how others are with mushrooms, do you enjoy them alot? do you have challenging experiences?
I am also curious how people do higher dosages of them as the most I have done was 4g of JMF and that was seriously intense visuals, thought loops. I now only need 3gs too have a strong experiences, the thought of going higher doesnt even pop into my head. How do people go higher ? Not that I want to I am just curious.

I will continue taking shroomies as they really help my mental health but they are pretty brutal.

 

[ommani]

I think what you describe is pretty relatable. I had many love and light, mystical variety trips with mushrooms in the past, particularly in combination with oral cannabis. However, in recent years, the common doses I used to take have been extremely anxiety/panic inducing for me, such that I have pretty much stopped tripping on mushrooms, altogether. At this point, I kinda feel like I’m circling back around to psilocybin, while aiming for a lower dose range and stronger focus on the intention of growth and healing. From what I’ve seen in myself and others, repeated doses of psilocybin, over the years, can elicit a reverse tolerance/heightened sensitivity, of sorts, which calls for greater attention to dosage, along with set and setting.

 

[Davski]

I think what you describe is pretty relatable. I had many love and light, mystical variety trips with mushrooms in the past, particularly in combination with oral cannabis. However, in recent years, the common doses I used to take have been extremely anxiety/panic inducing for me, such that I have pretty much stopped tripping on mushrooms, altogether. At this point, I kinda feel like I’m circling back around to psilocybin, while aiming for a lower dose range and stronger focus on the intention of growth and healing. From what I’ve seen in myself and others, repeated doses of psilocybin, over the years, can elicit a reverse tolerance/heightened sensitivity, of sorts, which calls for greater attention to dosage, along with set and setting.

Thats interesting, I hope you return goes well. I agree and like your choice off words growth and healing. I know strength of mushrooms vary a great deal, growing conditions and all other variables but what dose would you think of dose you feel would be beneficial?

If it wasn't for the benefits thst shrooms have on my mental health i really dont think I would use them. I haven't had these long lasting benefits from acid or DMT.

 

[ommani]

Thats interesting, I hope you return goes well. I agree and like your choice off words growth and healing. I know strength of mushrooms vary a great deal, growing conditions and all other variables but what dose would you think of dose you feel would be beneficial?

If it wasn't for the benefits thst shrooms have on my mental health i really dont think I would use them. I haven't had these long lasting benefits from acid or DMT.

I mean, I used to take cubensis doses in the 2-4g range, however that feels like it would be way too much for me, these days. I’d say that I’ve gone from measuring doses in grams to milligrams, so maybe around 800-900mg for me would be good, but the ideal dose for you and others might be totally different.

 

[Animistic]

I don't think I've ever had a mushroom trip that felt completely rainbows, love and light with no need for underworld adventures. Some mushroom journeys have been almost wholly underworld until I'm down and I'm celebrating that I am alive and not in the underworld anymore lol.

@ommani, I do think over time reverse tolerance can be a thing with mushrooms/dmt. I think it's less physiological and more psychological. Almost like you know where to look, how to steer the ship so the speak, how to guide yourself to that space you've been in many times.

@Davski, I'm curious whether you've tried dmt in combination with maoi and how that compares for your mental health vs just dmt? Reading your post I feel like digging into the mushrooms I have in the freezer lol

 

[Davski]

I mean, I used to take cubensis doses in the 2-4g range, however that feels like it would be way too much for me, these days. I’d say that I’ve gone from measuring doses in grams to milligrams, so maybe around 800-900mg for me would be good, but the ideal dose for you and others might be totally different.

4gs is the most i have done and that was probably the last time I would of these JMF, 3g is challenging enough for me now. Maybe when I move onto B+ it maybe better but they say a cube is a cube apart from the stronger strains pans, enigma etc.
Even on 3gs I had moments where I thought I had died and I was in a transitional realm waiting to go where we go after we exit this awareness of being human.
It sounds like a good dose you mentioned, would be interesting how much of the benefits I would get and for how long, last number of 3gs doses I've said to my girlfriend that I need to start microdosing as this is savage. But I worry microdosing wouldn't be as beneficial, so I think maybe dropping the dose would be best for me and see if its more friendly but also giving me better mental health for a good couple weeks at least. It gets mentally and emotionally tiring going in every 3 weeks. But it definitely helps me evaluate my life to the max which is painful but helpful.

 

[taita]

I think it's a good sign and pretty normal for sensitivity to increase with exposure. In the ayahuasca school I'm a part of it's considered a sign of progress to need less medicine to achieve comparably meaningful states. There's more room to explore the subtleties with a lower dose, and more of an opportunity to meet the medicine with the power of your own mind and heart when you're not being totally overwhelmed by it.

That said, there can be a lot of value in higher doses as well, even for the experienced, but if you are using them medicinally in the spirit of healing, then I imagine there is a sweet spot to be found.

I often feel like a big part of the value of psychedelic medicines is in how they confront us with an ordeal. And that ordeal is often the confrontation with our own minds and habits and shortcomings. While it can be uncomfortable or even painful to witness these things about ourselves, I can't help but feel that this is where much of the real value of these medicines is.

Some people carry a lot of pain and need rainbows and flowers to remind them that life can be beautiful, and it's good that they can have those kinds of experiences. But beyond a lived understanding that reality is essentially good, most of the real work of healing the soul is not terribly pleasant, ime.

I believe, and to some extent have experienced, that as we become more clear in having worked through the bulk of our distortions, the experiences we have with the medicine become easier again, and that then there is more room for a different kind of learning that is not so personally oriented.

Also, if you haven't tried microdosing, it might be worth trying! I would imagine it would be helpful for managing OCD, as even low doses open up behavioral flexibility in the context of daily life

 

[Davski]

I don't think I've ever had a mushroom trip that felt completely rainbows, love and light with no need for underworld adventures. Some mushroom journeys have been almost wholly underworld until I'm down and I'm celebrating that I am alive and not in the underworld anymore lol.

@ommani, I do think over time reverse tolerance can be a thing with mushrooms/dmt. I think it's less physiological and more psychological. Almost like you know where to look, how to steer the ship so the speak, how to guide yourself to that space you've been in many times.

@Davski, I'm curious whether you've tried dmt in combination with maoi and how that compares for your mental health vs just dmt? Reading your post I feel like digging into the mushrooms I have in the freezer lol

Celebrating you are alive, I can relate too that with shrooms and a few crazy acid trips where I smoked weed on.
I have actually extracted harmala freebase a while ago thanks too some much amazing guidance from a member on this website but hadn't explored it with DMT but just on its own. Until today where I decided to put on my emesh 20mg and then afterwards I did 10mg of DMT which gave me light visuals of the carpet, walls breathing, deeper colours. I didnt want to go higher as first time using them together and didnt know if it would make the dmt experience stronger which it didn't. I am definitely going to explore this combo more but double up on the dmt next time as 20mg I feel comfortable with. I start to get more anxious from 25mg. To be honest I am kind of stuck at 25mg on my emesh, yes I lose my ego for the first part and i visit places and meet entities but my travel time isn't as long and I know I could go further into these realms by getting my dose up, 25mg can feel uncomfortable at the start so going higher I won't have that its just the anxiety gets stronger.
Ive got everything to make a changa blend so plan to make some of that soon as well.

 

[new_science]

Mushrooms have always had a serious character for me. Just the way she goes.

I do manage to enjoy the trips, especially a strong lemon-mushroom tea or the joy of an exact 4-AcO-DMT dose. However, I'll also say that overall I like vaping DMT more and I think I enjoy eating phenethylamines more as well.

Mushrooms are a great teacher. If you're finding them to be consistently challenging, there's nothing wrong or unusual about that. Remember that you can work with other teachers too. Two of my recent pet favorites are a high dose of harmala extract on its own, and mescaline. I guess that would be my advice. Hang out with other teachers for a bit, and go back to mushrooms whenever you feel like it.

 

[ommani]

Psilocybin mushrooms, not even once…

 

[doubledog]

That's the way of mushrooms also for me, I've never had mushroom experience without this unpleasant component of rumination, going through my fails, despair, negativism and so on. I would consider it not working properly if that happens.
Mushrooms are 'harsh love' type of teacher.

Maybe one recommendation from me is to try other shrooms than cubes. Not that they are different in this aspect, but cubes are somehow more dark.

Other plant teachers are different and you would likely appreciate mescaline, imo it 's 'gentle love' type of teacher.

 

[Davski]

I think it's a good sign and pretty normal for sensitivity to increase with exposure. In the ayahuasca school I'm a part of it's considered a sign of progress to need less medicine to achieve comparably meaningful states. There's more room to explore the subtleties with a lower dose, and more of an opportunity to meet the medicine with the power of your own mind and heart when you're not being totally overwhelmed by it.

That said, there can be a lot of value in higher doses as well, even for the experienced, but if you are using them medicinally in the spirit of healing, then I imagine there is a sweet spot to be found.

I often feel like a big part of the value of psychedelic medicines is in how they confront us with an ordeal. And that ordeal is often the confrontation with our own minds and habits and shortcomings. While it can be uncomfortable or even painful to witness these things about ourselves, I can't help but feel that this is where much of the real value of these medicines is.

Some people carry a lot of pain and need rainbows and flowers to remind them that life can be beautiful, and it's good that they can have those kinds of experiences. But beyond a lived understanding that reality is essentially good, most of the real work of healing the soul is not terribly pleasant, ime.

I believe, and to some extent have experienced, that as we become more clear in having worked through the bulk of our distortions, the experiences we have with the medicine become easier again, and that then there is more room for a different kind of learning that is not so personally oriented.

Also, if you haven't tried microdosing, it might be worth trying! I would imagine it would be helpful for managing OCD, as even low doses open up behavioral flexibility in the context of daily life

Thanks for your reply, it's makes a lot of sense. I agree that I am looking for healing rather than rainbows and flowers and the mushrooms certainly are helpful as I do notice a big difference afterwards and for 2 to 3 weeks. Its uncomfortable after the visuals to rumernate the regrets, failures etc in my life, a big part of it has been caused by my mental health challenges especially OCD.

I am definitely tempted to start microdosing and thanks for the positive words of encouragement. I have read mixed reviews but its definitely something I will explore in the future.

 

[Jamie01]

For rainbows and flowers take mdma or 2cb. Even mescaline can get dark and mushrooms are like top of the list for me. At real psychedelic doses the only thing I fear more is 5-MeO-DMT. Iboga and ayahuasca feel easier and maybe I am just odd.

 

[Transform]

Two of my recent pet favorites are a high dose of harmala extract on its own, and mescaline. I guess that would be my advice. Hang out with other teachers for a bit, and go back to mushrooms whenever you feel like it.

Did anyone mention psilohuasca yet? Go easy on the shrooms though… Nor is this a guarantee of 'easier' trips - possibly quite the opposite, at least in terms of sheer weirdness.

 

[Pyramids]

"Bliss is any emotion fully felt." —Joseph Campbell

When i hear folks say: i don't do higher doses of x because it makes me feel blank I think of that quote. And also one of my own quotes remixed from something Stan Grof said: Psychological healing is a byproduct of the mystical path.

Both of these ideas are part of my approach to this work. I believe in the plants and their capacity to transform. And I am wildly curious about consciousness. I don't worry so much about the actual experience or, like in consensus reality, i try not to attach to any particular outcome—not that I am always successful, but increasingly so with practice and time. But if you keep doing this work, in the right way, there is less and less of you causing drag. There is an undeniable shedding at work in the most liberating sense.

This is something that Ram Dass talks about: i do not suffer anxiety anymore because i'm good with whichever way things roll.

I love that. it's a simple idea, but revolutionary in it's application. Psychedelics and meditation are transformative (in part) because they expand your definition of self.
Part of me can be flipping the f* out for whatever reason—and believe me when i say there has been darkness—and another, stronger part of me can be in total control: hold your face to the fire, son, and stay on course because this is a warrior's path (yes, sometimes i call myself son).

 

[Jamie01]

I think some peoples nervous systems are too burnt out to deal with trying to white knuckle their way through hard trips though.

 

[Animistic]

I think some peoples nervous systems are too burnt out to deal with trying to white knuckle their way through hard trips though.

I've had my fair share of difficult trips to navigate but because of where I was at this one rattled me like nothing else before. I drank aya a few months after my son was born where there was a lot of other heavy crap going on at the time and my god it took a while to integrate that. My nervous system was fried at the time and then just before I drank I had a slight argument with my wife, normally that could be navigated easy enough but my nervous system was already in fight or flight so much more than normal. Hindsight is king but I don't think what you've said could be overstated.

 

[Pyramids]

I think some peoples nervous systems are too burnt out to deal with trying to white knuckle their way through hard trips though.

i hear that. and also i'd say it's a matter of motivation for transformation. i had the fortune/misfortune of an event in my life that made me considerably more desperate for transformation than most. In that state i was ready to take on anything in order to escape the hell that had become my reality. the fun secret sauce in that was that you can't pick and choose what you are going to heal, in my experience. it was somewhat of an all or nothing system. so the single trauma that could have destroyed me ended up acting as the catalyst for healing all of it. you can white knuckle your way through anything with the proper motivation, i guess.