Am I doing something wrong?

[moyshekapoyre]

Namaste friend!

I've never done A/B before, usually I do STB. But that shouldn't make a difference here. Basically I just boil in dilute HCl for an hour or two, decant, filter thru a t-shirt, and then boil down a lot, then add ammonia until it seems there is an excess of ammonia, at which point it gets clumpy fast, and then i stir in limonene and heat for a little while.

The main thing I'm doing differently this time that I think could *possibly* be affecting my yield is that I'm salting out with dilute HCl from the limonene, and then I take all the DMT HCl water and *boil* it to reduce it. In the past I've taken days to reduce in the dehydrator, but I'm trying to take a shortcut. As I boil, I notice of course it gets darker and darker (starting from yellow, ending up black). But so far in 2 pulls I've got maybe 1-2g of spice out of 1.5kg of 2% potent bark.

Is it possible that the DMT is boiling off along with the dilute HCl water? I tried huffing the vapors and didn't get any effect, so I assumed that wasn't happening. But it must be happening at least a little, i guess. Perhaps I should invest in some IPA so I can just dehydrate it in the dehydrator?

 

[Gowpen]

Ummmm rather a lot of 'Spice' in one spot from so much material.
most bathches here are 20 or 30 gms, 1 or 2 ounces max..... You have a commercial brew cooking buddy. Bad news central

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Thanks Gowpen.

 

[Earthwalker]

Thanks Gowpen.

Hi moyshekapoyre ,, in a way Gowpen is rite , but IME I do atleast 100-200 grams at a time because everytime I try the bigger extraction I get a huge drop in yeild % , idk why this is but , that's what happens !

Example ;- i usually do 2 x 100g each ! and it's in my TEK & comments here ACRB TEK 100g "PICS" (Newbie Friendly) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus that I get up to 1.4 to 1.8% and this is " acacia I'm using " so I no this bark is a great example of ACRB these days :thumb_up:

But if I do ( like today ) 1 mix of 250g I'm only getting 2.5 g which is 1% so I'm losing it somewhere along the way :thumb_dow ! Idk if this helps but try to split you're bark up maybe it will help ! :thumb_up:

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Interesting! Thanks earthwalker!

 

[concombres]

Smaller scale extractions waste alot less product when something goes wrong & allow you to fully exhaust each batch of bark before moving on to the next extraction.

Id say get the kinks worked out in your a/b with smaller ammounts first, then do 10 separate 100g extractions per kilo, then combine all yeilds & wash, recrystallize, etc. on all batches at once until you are happy with the end product.

Also, with such a large batch, converting to fumarate for storage would avoid any degredation of dmt. Just convert back to freebase in small batches before smoking or use orally with harmalas.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Very true, Tryptamine 420. I am just too damn impatient I guess. I think I must be burning the DMT HCl due to my impatience, as it shouldn't go from yellow to black, it seems to me. Perhaps I will boil it down a bit and then stick it in the toaster oven on low.

 

[Tyler_Trismegistus]

You know, on one hand I can see why it would be said that larger extractions waste the plant matter, but if you look at Thick Light's ACRB tek, he was able to get well over a 1% yeild with 500g of acacia confusa doing 5 acid boils each for 1.5 hours. The solvents were so saturated that most of the DMT crashed out at room temperature even.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

moyshekapoyre, you say the boil turns black, what vessel are you boiling it in??

Is there an intermediate colour between yellow and black?

Another thing about smaller extractions is there's less liquid to boil down. But I'd prefer to keep volumes to a minimum in the first place...

Why the change from STB to A/B? Presumably change in starting material. What about A2B?

 

[1ce]

Your first mistake is cutting corners and being shocked at poor results. You didn't say you washed the acidic phase, so why did you boil in HCL? How then, is that a useful step? Your "spice" is already an acid salt and therefore does not need to be acidified again if you're going to basify everything.

Why did you basify it twice? What is the point of this?

Research boiling points and melting points, there is a difference. DMT isn't going to vaporize until you reach its melting point, which you cannot possibly accomplish with a liquid with a lower boiling point than DMT as the temperature will be stablized.

You clearly did some things wrong with a foolish amount of precurser material. Can you give us a very detailed step by step for us so we can potentially find your prime mistake?

 

[Spiritofspice]

Yea what's with the big kg batches for personal use
I hope you ain't dealing it should be a rule here no help if your over 500g of bark.

I could save this but I'm sketchy to give advice to somebody that is potentially producing a commercial quantity for sale.

 

[1ce]

Yea what's with the big kg batches for personal use
I hope you ain't dealing it should be a rule here no help if your over 500g of bark.

I could save this but I'm sketchy to give advice to somebody that is potentially producing a commercial quantity for sale.

Especially extracting so much when they don't understand ehat they're doing or why they're doing it in the first place. Thread should me moved imho.

 

[Earthwalker]

Come on if he was producing big amounts for sale , he'd ask the question get a answer do the extraction then never return again , btw I've spoken to moyshekapoyre on many occasions and seen him help others in return ,:thumb_up: everyone at one point or another think that they'd do a bigger then normal extraction simply to not have to do another for a far while only to find they just don't work out as they planed .
. So lets stop with the accusations shall we :!:
As the same could be said about you with all you're lab equipment Ice !!:?:

 

[cyb]

So lets stop with the accusations shall we.

EW, Spiritofspice (and others)
Let me point you Here , in case you have forgotten and remind you that it is the job of moderators to scold users on this site for infractions.

This was written 4 years ago by the admin of the site.

It is important to understand that large scale extractions are frowned upon at the the DMT-Nexus.
The reasons for that are:

The primary users of large scale extractions are drugs dealers, something we loath.
Having large amounts of a schedule 1 substance in your possession is NOT a good thing if you get caught. You will not only be prosecuted for the schedule 1 substance but also for the intent of distribution.
Many small scale extractions will get you acquainted with the extraction procedure.
Many small scale extractions will make you understand the workings behind each step of the extraction.
Many small scale extractions will not be a big loss if the extraction fails.
Many small scale extractions will let you fine tune your process.

So as you can see we encourage small scale extractions

Also this thread (OP) is from March last year.

 

[1ce]

Come on if he was producing big amounts for sale , he'd ask the question get a answer do the extraction then never return again , btw I've spoken to moyshekapoyre on many occasions and seen him help others in return ,:thumb_up: everyone at one point or another think that they'd do a bigger then normal extraction simply to not have to do another for a far while only to find they just don't work out as they planed .
. So lets stop with the accusations shall we :!:
As the same could be said about you with all you're lab equipment Ice !!:?:

What does that have to do with not providing information to assess where OP went wrong. My comment toward size was that he shouldn't be extracting from so much precurser with an unrefined understanding of the process as evidenced by his first post. I also still think this is more suited in the faq section.

Also, what does my equipment and practice of chemistry have to do with OP not providing us a more detailed backtrack of his extraction? I have my own thoughts on your practices, but to each their own? Even still I extract 50-100g bark at a time >.>

 

[lowjackal]

Forget the size of the extraction, I'm more interested in the reasoning behind salting it out as the hydrochloride salt as opposed to the more stable fumerate or the more common freebase?
Does DMT HCl stay potent for a longer amount of time than DMT fumrate?
What was the starting material?
ACRB?
Whole bark or pre-powdered?
Bad bark is easier marketed as pre-powdered, always buy whole pieces whenever you can.
All things to consider when you ask yourself why your kg. produced 2g.

 

[Spiritofspice]

Also this thread (OP) is from March last year.

Sorry cyb
Feel like a dumb ass replying to such an old thread.