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Amanita muscaria, regalis, and pantherina

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ABe©eDarian

ABe©eDarian

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I saw the thread about converting the ibotenic acid to muscimol via fermentation and making an Amanita yogurt. Interesting. Also occurred to a friend of mine that an Amanita muscaria kombucha could be possible, letting the microbes do the work to convert the ibotenic acid into muscimol.

So boiling in acidified water and straining makes for partially decarbed tea dosing but not fully decarbed. To fully decarb means to do something along the lines of simmering for 3 hours at a specific pH. Process for full decarboxylation quoted below.

There are reasons that some users like a full decarb while many actually prefer a partially decarbed dose.

The supply I have is from someone who dries A. muscaria, regalis, and pantherina at a temperature of 100°F so decabroxylation has not yet occurred. Higher dehydration temperatures of 104–122°F can reportedly result in about 35% ibotenic acid decarboxylation. Higher temperatures can result in a loss in overall potency, and temperatures exceeding 176°F is said to decrease potency dramatically.

With a new supply of dried caps I plan to try oven decarbing some of the already dried mushroom caps similar to what is popular with cannabis flowers, though at 125°F-150°F for 1-1.5 hours. I am familiar with the effects of partially decarbed Amanita muscaria tea and gummies on myself with microdoses and macrodoses. I am doing this oven decarb in hopes of being able to skip the tea or gummy making process and encapsulate powder made of oven decarbed mushroom caps. I have verified that there’s a setting on my oven that maintains a temperature for me and I will report my results with this oven decarbing attempt.






Method for fully decarbing Amanitas


1. For dried mushrooms, cut them into small pieces but don't grind them into a powder. For fresh mushrooms, remove the dirt and dice them into small cubes.
2. Fill the stainless steel pot with tap water, ensuring there's enough to last for the entire simmer.
3. Add mushrooms and store.
4. Wait for the pH level of the water to adjust.
5. Add a tiny amount of lemon juice.
6. Stir.
7. Measure the water's pH. Add more lemon juice if necessary until the pH value reaches 2.5 to 3.0 (stir between each drop addition).
8. Put the lid on the pot and bring it to a boil.
9. Once a rolling boil is achieved, lower the heat to simmer.
10. Maintain the simmer for three hours while keeping the lid on, only removing it when you need to check inside.
11. Measure the water's pH level every half hour to ensure it stays in the correct range.
12. Allow to cool to room temperature.
13. Strain the mushroom matter, squeezing out any liquids and discarding the remains.
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Good luck. Let us know what the results were. I believe the A. Pantherina contain the most ibotenic acid of any of the Amanita varieties. You might also want to look into the grape juice method with Amanitas, sometimes referred to as 'Sacred Ambrosial Wine'.
 
Thank you. I will report my results because generally it is said that a chosen drying temperature can sufficiently decarb, but once they dried below that temperature the acidic tea must be made and further dry heat exposure is to be avoided. But I want to try it on a small batch to see if it's feasible for me.
 
Are you really saying the internal conversion is so rapidly complete that there's literally no difference? I have my doubts.
 
abecedarian said:
Are you really saying the internal conversion is so rapidly complete that there's literally no difference? I have my doubts.
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I didn't say there was "literally no difference," but are you saying that it isn't? I can reasonably surmise that it's a good enough conversion.

There's a reason those Amanita shamans were drinking their own piss..
 
abecedarian said:
I don't drink urine bro. I get it ready for the first pass through me.
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You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting people drink their urine. The point is that we have reasons to believe that the digestive system decarbs it, and you don't have a reason to believe otherwise. : P
 
Edible Amanitas needing to be decarbed prior to ingesting orally for adjusted effects is as well accepted as cannabis needing to be decarbed prior to ingesting orally for adjusted effects. Can I eat fresh undecarbed cannabis flowers with good results? Yes, and it's good for me. But will it have the same effect as decarbing them prior to eating? No.

I've tried the difference between not decarbed, partially decarbed, and fully decarbed. I can feel things. People have different preferences between the effects of partially and fully decarbed edible Amanita doses as well. I like more muscimol and less ibotenic acid as it's going into me, same as I like more THC and less THCA as it's going into me. I have my reasons and my reasons are not misconceptions about sacraments.
 
abecedarian said:
Edible Amanitas needing to be decarbed prior to ingesting orally for adjusted effects is as well accepted as cannabis needing to be decarbed prior to ingesting orally for adjusted effects. Can I eat fresh undecarbed cannabis flowers with good results? Yes, and it's good for me. But will it have the same effect as decarbing them prior to eating? No.

I've tried the difference between not decarbed, partially decarbed, and fully decarbed. I can feel things. People have different preferences between the effects of partially and fully decarbed edible Amanita doses as well. I like more muscimol and less ibotenic acid as it's going into me, same as I like more THC and less THCA as it's going into me. I have my reasons and my reasons are not misconceptions about sacraments.
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Cannabis "needing" to be decarbed" and Amanitas "needing" to be decarbed are two separate things entirely because the reason most people decarb Amanitas is to avoid purported toxicity. Maybe you, personally, don't feel that you have misconceptions about Amanitas, but many people do, thinking the "need" to decarb Amanitas is absolute.

I'm glad to hear you're in the know.
 
Well personally I am not afraid of a bit of the Ibotenic Acid left in what I dose on, it's just the effects of my dosing on both microdoses and macrodoses that I find improved via some decarb done. Starting in 2004 I've done fresh and caps that were only dried at 100°F which is below the temperature that's supposed to start the decarboxylation. I've liked doses on partially decarbed stuff more than that, and fully decarbed Amanita is something I may have yet to try since it's said to be so difficult to achieve. I mean I've consumed what went through the process of full decarb attempts. I would venture the guess that most people have never experienced Amanita dosing that was fully decarbed prior to consuming, as it's difficult to achieve in a simple fast way. I agree with you to the extent being that while it's running through me more muscimol is certainly made, but I don't think that's happening to an extent that I would have wasted my time decarbing the Amanita to my liking.

So having just payed attention to my experiences with Amanita I feel sure that some decarbing done improved my reactions to having consumed it. ie I don't plan on going back to eating non-decarbed stuff after having found my benefits improving with decarbed product.

It's been years since I felt called to the Amanita but now I'm really finding benefit at a range of doses. One doesn't even have to put themself in a trippy dreamlike trance to benefit because there is a lot of potential for microdosing these mushrooms. Meditation can bring out the best of it's usefulness and at the smallest doses it's a really good relaxer that has even helped some people out of benzo addictions and become their go-to for anxiety relief. Almost 20 years ago I was determined to visit the outer reaches of the universe on muscaria caps, eating up to an ounce at times. I got there in a deep sweaty dreamlike trance. These experiences were better when I did tea, which even a half hour simmer and strain of acidic tea is significantly decarbing. Not full decarb, but partial/significant, and sufficient to have changed my experiences. When some amount of decarbing was done there were less cold-sweats and more cerebral results for me. Is that all about more muscimol and less ibotenic acid? I think not completely but significantly. I'm not afraid of half the ibotenic acid left in what I consume, I just think it's better for my result when some of the conversion has been done beforehand via the decarb. All this time later I'm just still trying to get the best out of my experiences but the difference nowadays is I'm no longer a macrodose-every-time guy. I can get the best out of less than huge doses and I like that I can. With a long hiatus in between 19 years ago and now, I have dosed within the range of 700mg to 1 ounce worth of muscaria. I think there's a lot of potential for me to have a quality relationship with these mushrooms. I also plan on working with Amanita Regalis and Amanita Pantherina.
 
I personally have prepared in a similar way, like you described in first post, and it potentiates the musroom.
30-40 day dried are devoid enough of ibotenic, to not make you sick, but why would you not make it more effective?

Also not everybody is fond of drinking sacred piss, some prepare to use sacred pot and make a sacred brew lol

Whatever reason amanita shamans had, I have my own for not drinking it :D
 
I've eaten Amanita an armful of times cooked, dried, and raw.

My favorite experiences have been from consuming it raw.

Go figure!?
 
Not that erowid has always been right to the extent of exactitude about everything but:


CONSTITUENTS :
The entheogenic constituents of A. muscaria are ibotenic acid (alpha-amino3-hydroxy-5-isoxazole acetic acid), muscimol (3hydroxy-5-aminomethy1 isoxazole), and possibly muscazone (Ott). Muscimol appears to be the primary intoxicant. After ingestion, a small amount of ibotenic acid decarboxylates into muscimol, which produces the intoxication.
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So you are right, but I know my taste for the effects calls for more beforehand decarbing.
 
I have been microdosing. Seems to me there's a bit of a reverse tolerance thing happening. I suspect my body's system is increasingly recognizing it as food and moreso knowing what to do with it.
 
abecedarian said:
Not that erowid has always been right to the extent of exactitude about everything but:
After ingestion, a small amount of ibotenic acid decarboxylates into muscimol, which produces the intoxication.
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Yeah, I wonder where they got that "small" statistic from.
 
May I ask if you or anyone has experience with Amanita Regalis or Amanita Pantherina?

And if so do you believe the notion that Pantherina is 5x as strong as Muscaria as I've been told?
 
abecedarian said:
May I ask if you or anyone has experience with Amanita Regalis or Amanita Pantherina?

And if so do you believe the notion that Pantherina is 5x as strong as Muscaria as I've been told?
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I've only had experience with Amanita muscaria. I do believe the accounts of A. pantherina being more potent, although I have not tried consuming it yet. It seems to be common knowledge in various mushroom society circles that it is so. I would start very carefully with A. pantherina.
Good luck!
 
A. pantherina also contains some other substances incuding stizolobic acid and its isomer, stizolobinic acid, which may contribute to its stronger effects. I don't know how much is known about these other compounds though so it's worth having a thorough dig through the literature if you're planning on doing anything with that species.
 
Thus far I've only went as high as 2.1 grams with the Pantherina. Does feel like it is 5x more potent than A. Muscaria. Enjoyed for a while then I slept deeply with some interesting dreams.
 
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