Another way to vaporize

[Bisy]

So this topic gets nearly beaten to death, so apology for that, but i haven't seen any mention of this method on the nexus, and i believe it may actually be rather ideal for dmt. I'd like feedback though..
So the tweaker in this neck of the woods call it a hot rail. You heat the end of a glass tube with a torch, and then suck up your line of substance through it. The spice goes from solid to vapor rather instantly and has no contact whatsoever with flame, and miniscule contact with a hot surface.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Bisy,

Actually the name of this concept is VAPOCANE.

And there's a lot of radiative heat involved...

At least the "Release" phase is mainly convective, but the transit time would seem significantly long and hence energy contributions from both conductive and radiative vectors must also be expected to compound (and blurr) that whole setup requiring some learning/training period initially, i presume.

What's actually "ideal" for pretty much any noble molecules i can think of is just to follow "The Shortest Path of Lesser Transformation", so that spontaneously raises the matter of your transit time being very possibly inflated 4 ~ 5 fold comparatively to mine. Which makes me insist that "baking" as in "Heat Denaturation" is a bad idea to begin with, so i'd be extra careful about conduction and even somewhat concerned by radiative mode, because of such transit time precisely, but only somewhat mildly if we consider that convection is synonymous of "Transport" and this necessarily implies that things are set in MOTION, hence moving away from a heat source - IDEALLY...

One much more space-efficient solution is to benefit from a lesson given by inventor Dan Steinberg, when he 1st patented his VaporGenie pipe nearly twenty years ago. In principle solid "bulk" SiC material outperforms thermal conduction of most metals as i recall, something like 2 ~ 3 fold i think, the point being that dry air defines unity and SiC Foam is made half as heat-conductive as those metals, actually. Yet the real fun happens after juxtaposing this already most exotic "designer material" besides another with contrasting properties (Curie alloys, as far as i'm concerned...), to fill the tool box with enough resources adequate for such sort of elevating challenge!

In conclusion there's a solid opportunity here so please lets not trash it for no good purpose: avoid conduction mode "Release" for starters, e.g. simultaneously avoiding denaturation. Instead of waiting after fresh-air "Transport" why not simply rely on the convenient double-function naturally assumed by a brief/potent "Burst" of HOT "Release Agent" AIR, which means now a heat wave passes through the bowl and this later item is only 2 ~ 3 mm thick - hence reducing transit time to an absolute minimum.

In short SEPARATE "Pre-Heating" from "Release/Transport", basically...

Keep these crucial timing elements independant.

As for what you call flame contact i routinely rely on extra-hot exhaust gases from clean-burning butane to provide me with "Inlet Water", acting like a "Conditioning Agent" both supporting the "Self-Moisturization" and "Energy Potientialization" of "Inlet Water", itself resulting in benefits which only 1st-hand "DUPLICATION & PEER REVIEW" can help to describe and ultimately share publicly, including on "social" media.

Feel absolutely welcome to evaluate this all by using my suggested "Prototyping Platform", for example:

Although i didn't walk that same path as yours IMO i've acquired sufficient perspectives on Pulse Heating to recommend further investigation.

Not to mention i consider SiC Foam to be just as chemically-inert (at least within its intended operating temperature range) as glass.

Good day, have fun!! 8)

 

[Bisy]

Sheesh, aint this just the greatest place to learn about so many things. Among my peers im considered to be pretty smart, but I know otherwise, (prolly the reason). I have always learned by finding those with the most knowledge and/or skill, and regarding this topic, I have most definitely found the right place and people. Thank you for reminding me to step it up a bit because I'm not discussing matters with the average crowd here.

 

[bismillah]

Have you tried it? My first thought is that it would get clogged, or that you'd get a throatful (nosefull?) of spice. Not ideal :shock:

 

[Bisy]

Yeah, at first I thought it seemed kinda ridiculous, but the more I thought about it, it kinda seemed like there was some potential. You gotta get the tube pretty hot, and i decided that a stainless mesh a couple inches inside was a good idea in case some made it by without vaporizing. The precision with which you can measure doses was an attractive part of the idea.

 

[Egzoset]

Sheesh...

The best part of it is that this could have existed long before i even created the Egzoset alias, to start posting about cannabis in public forums a decade ago, ALWAYS using 1 single identity ever since...

Clogging is an issue that i've tried to discuss for years hopelessly, maybe the words shall get though, eventually, but not today i think.

In any case i've simply banned any use of some fine-mesh metal screens for eventual double-role "Bi-Energy" situations where Induction Heat would seem a more suitable option. In this later case fine metal branches are the least item i'd tolerate in my lungs path if these are expected to get very hot then clogged and even clean-torched... Quite on the contrary, the heated metal needs to be massive with less contact-surface in order to reduce potential interactions with its metal surface, or at least think of correctives!

For example:

In such manner there's just ZERO metal directly put across this path in order to store/radiate heat while the terminating screen only functions as that and nothing else exactly: a screen, optionally self-cleaning though - ideally! As for SiC Foam it's the perfect material for this most demanding purpose, but others may prefer to reject such nearly-ideal space-age asset just because, euh...

Plus, try to reason outside thermostatic models: embrace transitional emerging properties in pulsed mode!

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Bisy]

That is indeed a wonderful, fantastic, terrific device there. And I absolutely would not even for a moment think to challenge its superiority.
That being said. I've made some adjustments, and the answer to does it work is an absolute yes. Until I get my hands on one of those things you showed me, I believe I have found my preferred vaping apparatus.
Small glass tube, let's say, 8 inches long. Rubber mouthpiece long enough to secure a very losely packed piece of cotton inside. With torch lighter, heat 2.5 to 3 inches as the end of it for 20 or 30 seconds. Then suck your dose through it. Its a must try for the diy, low budget experience.

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

I havent read stuff, but I saw the picture of Egzoset and maaan hell yeees this looks awesome, because these conduction methods really get things on a new level, as it is much easier to deliver a controlled heat instead of over-torching stuff by direct burning with whatever-type flame.

Also these porous foam things are also just on a new level. Is that the regular healthstone or sth different?

I ordered foamy material which could be used like a healthstone, but sadly their porosity was never suitable - the healthstone at least just has perfectly scaled geometry and stuff ...

 

[Egzoset]

...superiority.

Stop youyoume please, e.g. just spare us all the nuisance of such "social" noise, for starters. PLEASE! Now if you don't want me to respond to rudeness in disguise with more not-so-clever rudeness then i'd respectfully offer some fair chance to try rational reasoning, especially in place of what seems to announce emotional/cognitive CHAOS so far!

In other words i didn't plan playing "the great, boldly Magnificent and utterly Omnipotent Egzoset with a capital "E" (plus gogo-style shadow-dancers on each side...)" flamboyant character today. Nope, cut the crap and leave it to installed gurus in exchange for major topics that were about to slip into oblivion, once again - which by the way feels typical at this point of the bend, euh...

So how about judging a whole patiently-matured concept by its obvious/real features for a change?...

...I have found my preferred vaping apparatus.

Of course, being born ealier this month (Joined: 09-janv.-2021) it appears anything's possible... Sure.

Anyway never mind what you were once told about Egzoset's imported/forged drama-queen reputation(s) - direct from NASA boys at FuckCombustion (incl. similar forum boards that got closed many years ago...) E.G. where criminal-minded fanboys play to denying a single honest, well-defined and time-proven VIRTUAL identity that was actually based on real topics, always put forward ever since, for example:

Sorry if that hurts your emotions and/or that makes YOU want to ridicule yourself by actively denying an ANONYMOUS IDENTITY on a VIRTUAL BOARD to obscur/block a most relevant/essential reply (only to serve social ties with trolls, as i can presume from the feedback!) but the dull fact is that this simply has got ZERO "arms" around any of those #53 holes which even remotely compares to the thin ones of stainless steel mesh. No wonder nobody here wants to retain such argumentation, but don't insult me with flatery again. The point is that the e-Mesh route exposes to an increased amount of metal contact-surface for trivial considerations having very little to do with vaporization of any substance IMHO!...

:thumb_dow

Nonetheless lets remain respectful and civilized. Which is why i cared to invest my fair share of time and effort on some over-simplified LAVAGen2 (co-axial) version that was initially meant to please the DynaVap VapCap people, in absolute vain not to mention it, euh... But it's coming with serious trade-offs anyway!

:?

Dimensions correspond to the VaporGenie Classic "top" and it weights less than a gram. Porosity is such that it provides a suitable ratio of convective/radiative and conduction heat transformation... M'well, judging by years of routine 1st-person evaluation.

For reminders here's my conceptual contribution to the patented Fig. #11/12 item of Dan Steinberg:

And this is my LAVACapsule extension, in case the reader might happen to wonder what that is (including yourself...):

You! You! You!

...must try for the diy, low budget experience.

Take a number, wait for your turn!!

Years ago i solved eventual clogged screen issues by creating my REVERSIBLE "Plan-B" compatible (e.g. Bi-Energy) Near-Symetrical LAVACapsule, directly inspired by the Fig. #11/12 Egzoset contribution to VaporGenie's intellectual property - which so far never legally covered "Plan-A" situations based on Induction Heat alone i think...

I've made some adjustments...

Good for YOU. Bewarned though that you may discover long-term problems along the path, for example i was recently worried that "Micro-Bursting" could leave residual eneregy in the mouth which could contribute as a co-factor to tooth decay, with chronic years-long use as another factor. Briefly put ou may want to check the heat-removal layer and/or add one, so there again i must advise that SiC Foam got ideal dynamic thermal characteristics for such challenging function!

...awesome, because these conduction methods really get things on a new level...

This is so demotivating to get more youyoume feedback and never have the essentials even considered. So be it, bad Egzoset shall be blamed again. Truth is my LAVA concept MINIMIZES conduction to reserve it for a separate "Pre-Heating" phase, but i must be over-reacting i guess. Just get me BANNED so we can be done with it, exactly as expected!!

...controlled heat instead of over-torching...

Ah, finally some emotional relief. A real topic at last!...

Too bad i going to fuel more hate for Egzoset one more.

...these porous foam things are also just on a new level.

Now i can wait for death in complete resignation: someone has his eyes open, not one year too soon though!!

Yes, top-notch indeed:

Wrap your e-Mesh around it to obtain an independant Pre-Heat phase. Once fully "charged" with an effectively quanticized amount of energy (by virtue of fixed specific heat capacity/mass vs power output/time/temperature...) exploit this designer structure to re-convert temporarily stored energy into mainly convective/radiative heat vectors, ideally after pre-heating has prepared the noble molecules to spontaneously vaporize and leave the bowl just as fast, using burning-hot air both as the "Release" & "Transport" agent. Cold fresh air will follow the stretched energy bubble into a bowl, hence quickly stopping secondary/tertiary (thermal denaturating) reactions. Etc., etc.

In any case don't youyoume again unless you seek a war, hoping that was rude but never confusing...

Is that the regular healthstone or sth different?

The "tetrakaidecahedron" detail tells me we should trust VaporGenie's specific material selection based on a 2-decades legacy, while i'm not too confident about what's inside "HealthStones", imagine their internal structure and thermal characteristics. Though i'm under the impression that if glass were equivalent then it would be popular for the top-notch electronic chips industry as well, where SiC and Saphire are chosen instead. IMO significant trade-offs are to expect but i certainly wouldn't deter the urge to try and compare! What i know is that naturally-occuring stones suck...

Now if you want to be nice then consider DUPLICATION or ignore me like anyone else. It's OKay to only post for yet-to-come readers who don't exist just yet, all that counts is planting a seed.

Good day, have fun!! 8)

 

[Bisy]

I'm not sure how to quote parts of a post yet, but I was being absolutely sincere when I said your product was superior. If I had one, (which thanks to you, I prolly will before long) then I wouldn't be messing with diy cost nothing methods. But lots of people use these methods for quite some time before investing money.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you got the wrong impression from my comment.

 

[Egzoset]

Alright, sometimes my character goes grumpy, ready to bite.

It seems there's nothing more i can do than wish you find something safe, suitable within a reasonable delay at a manageable cost...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Maybe it's useful here also to cross reference another of Egsozet's posts, showing a diagram for magnetic inductors relevant to the Curie point restricted device as mentioned above:

Can you measure the temperature of your torch lighter? - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Egzoset]

Well, here's the very same version except i may have got my North and South magnetic poles reversed:

Slight re-evaluated measurement is more like 18.5 (Lar.) x 22.0 (Lon.) x 9.3 (thick), nothing else is changed globally-speaking. But of course it largely depends on desired induction vs current-carrying parameters... So far i managed to conceptually develop such simple modular KISS-style of building block into a multi-configurations concept always depending on the same PCBoard mounting hole locations:

1-Phase 2/4/6/8/12/16/24
2-Phase 4/8/16/24
3-Phase 18-Poles
4-Phase 24-Poles
6-Phase 24-Poles

Using between 1 to 8 U-cores, optional PCB "stuffing" and a few jumpers i guess.



This next illustration suggests 1, 2 or 4 "phases" / 8-Poles:

And instead of having to rely on 4 or even 6 battery contacts exposed to heavy electrical stress such power-combining strategy can, at least in principle, bring such reliability factor to an absolute minimum of 2, provided the batteries must NOT be solvered and always remain amovible.

Lets just say my Fault-Tolerant 2-Cells "Lava fantasies" concept evolved since my IH Driver reflexions of September 2014! So, how would you like a 4-Phase 24-Poles version fitting some volume less than 7 x 7 x 2 cm today, for example?...

Good day, have fun!! 8)

 

[Egzoset]

Hummm...

The years passed, then some manufacturer from the republic of China (...) actually released documentation relative to its integrated solution, so lets make sure to see Holtek's 'AN0591' appl. note + 'WAS-21A1EN' (reference design), eventually! As for my creative "U-Core" windings that's trading mechanical features in exchange for flux density which won't be recoverable (simply because it's getting sacrificed-by-design), but i keep thinking a 3-axial 18 poles system can at least manage to extract presence/removal signals if not also the susceptor's Curie (temperature-dependant) response; even if self-contained thermostatic susceptor behaviour remains a challenge there's still the next best wireless option to "scan"/"listen" in hope to detect suitable hints, possibly display real-time visual animations in multimedia players as VLC linked via Bluetooth, etc.

One design item which sustained my curiosity was the digital down-counter pulse generator strategy. Is it possible they explored analog circuitry and went into trouble from stray noise, for example? At least the company did implement something similar to my cycle-steal scenarios (called "drop-wave control method" by Holtek), e.g. the more it skips the less power it transfers through periodic field inversions...

Naturally, compared to Mazzilli's Royer ZVS the promised performances sound quite impressive considering and there's only 1 « IGBT » in its power stage. As a bonus EMI attenuation is claimed to be over 6dB @ 2 kW and we benefit from Under/Over/Surge Voltage + Over-Current/Over-Heating self-protection; resonant bandwith reaches down to 20~35 kHz, expected to have an edge with Curie allows.

Standby power consumption is a mere < 5 Watts. It's even supporting a master/slave i2C interface!

If that intuition about a need to go digital is correct then more specialized control chips wait to be discovered by vaporists for sure. Holtek's chip "listens" to the resonator but it ain't "listening" for echoes from a susceptor kicked with an energetic pulse; go figure, perhaps combination with Allegro's ACS7xx series chip might bridge the gap, with sufficient shielding perhaps