Anyone here try DMT back in the 60's?

[jamie]

[/quote]
A nice thought, but at this rate it’s much more likely that in much less than 10 years most plants and plant parts containing reasonable amounts of DMT (such as our beloved MHRB) will be banned worldwide.[/quote]

I doubt it. It might look that way now, but concidering the drug war has failed already it is just a money pit. I cant see in 10 years from now the drug war carrying on as it does today. Places like portugal will, I hope act as an example of how to better deal with the situation. The only thing really in the way is the prison industry..they still benifit from the drug war..as well as legal drug companies.

 

[nen888]

Pandora writes (& thanks for your insightful response BTW)

it was the late 1990's to early 2000's when BIG forward strides were made on these underground/unauthorized research fronts.

..being a product of that time (& highly influenced by Gracie & Zarkov), i would say the big breakthrough's were: (with a slight Aussie slant..)

c.1992- 'JG' in Aus. posts successful A. maidenii report on Lycaeum, around same time as J.Ott's Pharmacopeia released.
Early Entheogen Review correspondents report success in USA with D. illinoensis & Phalaris spp.
Psychedelic Illuminations magazine publishes extraction techniques for Desmanthus spp. 'JG' & "E" research teams meet up...

c.1994- "E" in Aus. shows samples of presumed A. maidenii subtype to Mulga, who identifies it as A. obtusifolia, and reports this on net.
("E" still believes that original tree to be a natural hybrid of species..)
J.Ott's Ayahuasca Analogues booklet published.

c.1995-7 Wide unprecedented underground research reported in Entheogen Review. Phalaris AQ1 strain found by G. Samorini. in Italy.
Many people in Aus. go in search of "E'/Mulga acacia, successfully extracting (at expense of wild populations..)
a fair amount of this material is circulated in underground scenes internationally.
Brief reappearance of synthetic DMT in the underground (unsure if left over from 60s/70s or newly made)

c.1997-2000 Several more Acacia species found (some with more pure DMT than obtusifolia) in Aus.
Serious M. hostilis underground research begins in US.


..it's nice to get an historical perspective on all of this..Terence was certainly almost the lone voice for a while...

 

[mad_banshee]

Just wondering if we've got any old hippies here. I often wonder what it must have been like to experience DMT back when nobody knew what the fuck it was. I remember reading somewhere that back then, DMT was sometimes called "the secret" which is a wonderfully chilling name for it, IMO. I bet in the context of the birth of psychedelic culture finding out "the secret" would be even more mind shattering than it is for us in the internet generation...us who can instantly reach out and talk to hundreds or thousands of others who've shared similar experiences. i would surmise that its a bit easier for us of the younger generation to integrate a DMT experience, too, what with all the quantum science and extra dimensional theories making there way into the mainstream culture.

so, anyone?

I would love to hear the term hippie discussed or defined. I wonder what people think of when they hear the term hippie. So I wore bellbottoms, had my hair to my shoulders, participated and even was arrested in anti war protests, moved to Canada to avoid being drafted, dropped out of school, dropped a lot of acid and mescaline, played music on the Cambridge Common, etc... back in the late 60s, but then reintegrated to raise a family and become a successful businessperson these days.
Anyway, as an old "hippie" I never heard of dmt back then and non of my friends from back then (who i still talk to) ever did either.

 

[Metanoia]

A nice thought, but at this rate it’s much more likely that in much less than 10 years most plants and plant parts containing reasonable amounts of DMT (such as our beloved MHRB) will be banned worldwide.

I doubt it. It might look that way now, but concidering the drug war has failed already it is just a money pit. I cant see in 10 years from now the drug war carrying on as it does today. Places like portugal will, I hope act as an example of how to better deal with the situation. The only thing really in the way is the prison industry..they still benifit from the drug war..as well as legal drug companies.

I would have to agree. I can't see this 'war on drugs' lasting much more than ten years. And even if the plants themselves are made illegal, there are so many sources for DMT. Some aren't very easy to extract from, obviously, but there are loads of sources. I think in ten years there will definitely be a sound grass tek, and illegal or not, people could grow them fairly easily and stealthy. Who knows? There could be a plant discovered within the next ten years that is as easy or almost as easy to extract from as MHRB, has better or similar yields, and grows quicker!

 

[Pandora]

I wish Nemo Amicus were in better health. I would really like him to post on this thread. As mentioned, he is my 61 year old husband who did DMT in 1968 (& 69 I believe). He is the penultimate hippie. At age 17, he left home (So. Cal) and proceeded staight to the Haight-Ashbury. First day there met an "old hippie" named God who gave him and some others on the street their very first doses of LSD.

He completely dropped out. He attended the Summer of Love, Monterey Pops Festival and Altamont. He toured with the Grateful Dead (I met him at a Dead show in 1988 ).

He burned his draft card and got the hell outta dodge - headed right up to Northern Canada and homesteaded some land.

When Ford pardoned these folks, he came back and grew massive amounts of weed in Hawaii until the helicopters came when he had to run with nothing other than the shoes on his feet, the clothes on his bod and a backback full of bud, mescaline and sheets of acid.

He ultimately wound up in the Bay Area, attending Grateful Dead shows up until Jerry Garcia's death in 1995. He attended various hippie events, including the big Bill Graham Memorial event.

He works for Gracie & Zarkov, DMT pioneers, maintaining their estate, as they own a very large mansion and are extremely busy businesspeople themselves, thus have no time for maintenance. They call him their "Factor Factorum," or similar, which is a term from Ancient Rome. Zarkov likes that Nemo has an extremely advanced skillset, but can still talk about life in the 1960's as well as the Amarna period of Ancient Egypt and many other intellectual areas.

IMO, this IS what an old hippie is. The Post-Modern Renaisannce (Wo)Man, who does what s/he needs to do but always tries hard to pave their own path, mainly with free thinking and a very, very respectful and peaceful attitude towards all they encounter. They see the need for revolution and change but they temper it nicely with the reality of their many decades of experience.

 

[Pandora]

..being a product of that time (& highly influenced by Gracie & Zarkov), i would say the big breakthrough's were: (with a slight Aussie slant..)

c.1992- 'JG' in Aus. posts successful A. maidenii report on Lycaeum, around same time as J.Ott's Pharmacopeia released.
Early Entheogen Review correspondents report success in USA with D. illinoensis & Phalaris spp.

nen888,

Thanks for these references. Any chance you could be more precise about the exact Quarters and Years for the later Entheogen Review references - I'd like to share them all with the Nexus. In this regard, I am attaching a .pdf right here of the entire Entheogen Review for 1992:

 

[dreamer042]

I thought this was too funny! I had to share...

Burroughs told a gripping tale about a psychiatrist in London who had taken DMT with a friend. After a few minutes the frightened friend began requesting help. The psychiatrist, himself being spun through a universe of shuttling, vibratory pigments, reached for his hypodermic needle (which had been fragmented into a shimmering assemblage of wave mosaics) and bent over to administer an antidote. Much to his dismay his friend, twisting in panic, was suddenly transformed into a writhing, wiggling reptile, jewel-encrusted and sparkling. The doctor's dilemma: where to make an intravenous injection in a squirming, oriental-martian snake?

source: http://deoxy.org/h_leary.htm

 

[nen888]

..hi Pandora, you asked

Any chance you could be more precise about the exact Quarters and Years for the later Entheogen Review references

..the Desmanthus stuff may have been a year or two later (gotta dig up issues, recall reports by Johnny Appleseed..)
..Most acacia stuff appeared (not in great detail) c.1995 will check exact issues over next cpl days & post back
..from memory Jim de Korne used Phalaris as his source..1994-7 was a real heyday for the journal of new discoveries...

here's a few bits n pieces i dug up: Some 1993 Phalaris & 1996 Acacia reports in E.R. See pp.86-7 & pp172-3 & see p169 (original Maidenii post 8/31/92 on u.washington.edu:/public/alt.drugs..etc)+1st A.obtusifolia report in print 1995...

 

[nen888]

..a friend listened to an old Terence McKenna talk in which he said he first smoked DMT in 1966-7, while at Berkley i believe..breakthroughs going on in this small circle..

..Stan Grof experimented a little with it ('60s), but i recall reading him describe DMT (in the '70s) as
'not of much use in psychotherapy', which is his main field (DMT replaces the therapist perhaps)

..the earliest firsthand account of smoked DMT i heard, while a teenager in the mid-late '80s, was from a slightly older friend..while hanging out with a interesting group in Sydney, who had access to pure MDMA while it was still legal in Aus., he told me he had smoked 'a small amount of orange stuff that took you to 'Escher-land' for 15 minutes'..looking up my limited reference books at the time, i concluded it was
DMT.. i hadn't even heard of Mckenna back then...

 

[jamie]

yeah I never understood the whole deal with DMT not being useful for therapy. I think shulgin came to the same conclusions. They must have not tried ayahuasca..Well..shulgin did pharma..but I dunno what his actual harmala dose was..

 

[blue lunar night]

^ The Shulgins have tried aya a couple of times. Here is an excerpt from a MAPS interview with Ann Shulgin in which she discusses their apparent rejection by that ally: interview w/ ann shulgin

...But you come to something like ayahuasca – a close relative of mine feels that it’s the greatest teacher that she’s ever come across in the psychedelic world – and I can’t take it. Sasha and I had two interesting experiences with ayahuasca. We went to a special place where the ceremony was conducted by very dear friends of ours, and it was a lovely experience. Sasha has totally different kinds of experiences than I do, but both of us felt that it was not going to be a dominant thing in our lives, although it was pleasant and we had enjoyed it. So we were quite ready to try it again six months later. We went to the same place with the same people, and we took a very small amount. We were being very cautious, because we usually are. I spent the entire time holding onto my seat, hoping that I was going to survive, because I was being run over by a train. There was no way to learn anything, except how to stay alive. Sasha had a totally different experience,which was just as negative in its own way. He did a lot of vomiting, while I did none at all. Toward the end of my train ride, a voice in my head said, “Don’t come here again.” I thought, “Uh-oh, well I’m not liable to, actually.” But then the next day, when everyone was having the second session, we decided we would participate. But, we decided to take a miniscule amount, just a half or third of what we took the day before, which was a pretty minor amount in the first place. The train started coming at me again, and the whole thing repeated for both of us, except it didn’t last quite as long. And the voice came back, and it said, “Didn’t you hear me the first time?” At which point I said, “Okay, alright!” I’ve never taken it again, and don’t intend to do so. Ayahuasca is one of the best allies of a lot of people I know, but it’s not ours.

I think that the Shulgins' simply have very different expectations & preferences for their psychedelics. Sasha is after all a 'phenethylamine man', & they both tend to favor psychs that allow one to remain firmly in the body, with personality structures intact. Theirs is not a shamanic approach...
& knowing a bit about aya's own 'personality', it doesn't surprise me at all that She would spit in their faces like that, probably feeling that they'd (albeit inadvertently) done the same to Her... She can be a touchy one...

 

[eindreizig]

Supposedly one of the first people to smoke DMT was Nick Sand, the creator of Orange Sunshine along with Tim Scully. He started making it as a teenager in the early 60s. Back then everyone had to shoot it up, he even recounts doing it with Aldous Huxley after a speech he gave while his mom brought him sandwiches in his basement...

After experiencing DMT he decided to devote his life to psychedelic substances. His first batches of DMT were contaminated with skatole due to the source material being indole. This resulted in an orange/yellow crystal. When breaking apart large amounts of crystallized DMT out of a pyrex dish, small pieces of crystal fell out of the dish and onto the hotplate which vaporized. This gave him the idea to smoke it and then he was asked by Leary to come to Millbrook and the League of Spiritual Discovery and the rest as they say is history.

He wrote two articles in the mid-2000s in the Ethnogenic Review under the name 'Infinite Ayes' if you want to check them out. There are also many interviews with him including one after he was arrested in Canada in the late 90s with a very large lab relating how DMT-saturated solvent will spontaneously crystallized which poured into a container of 22Ls of hexane :shock:

 

[nen888]

..cool info eindreizig,

i once had the opportunity to ask Terence McKenna if he had ever smoked DMT extracted from plants (as this was a particularly interesting subject to me at the time) .. he said he had tried extract of P. viridis, and that it was slightly different..i recall he said that the colors were more 'pastel' than synthetic, and the content more organic orientated.. (p. viridis does have a little 2meTHBC)

..he also told me that he only ever smoked DMT one to four times a year max, and that he had encountered heavier and more 'titanic' places than the 'self-transforming jewelled dribbling basket-ball' trip.. that, he said , was more like something's idea of a playground or 'nursey room', a few times he had been to where the 'big-people were home'..he said it was terrifying at the time..
.