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Apocalypse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Apoc

Esteemed member
OG Pioneer
Hello,

This is a description of my second successful oral dmt experience. I was not expecting a big trip, as I took about one third of my first dosage described here Death....... there is no - DMT - Quality experience reports - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus. However, I learned that medium/large doses can be as powerful as huge doses. The only difference being that the huge dose hit harder and faster, and the come down was shorter. With my second, medium dose, it came on more gradually, reaching the peak after a couple hours, though every bit as powerful as the huge dose, the come down was longer as well. So altogether, the smaller dose was actually longer lasting and more powerful. My lesson was to NEVER take dmt unless you are ready for some serious shit. If I just want to meditate or appreciate music, I'll stick with sublingual salvia, or silene capensis. If I want to have my soul eviscerated, I'll take a big dose of dmt.

I took some dmt in a forest, listening to some music, expecting merely to have a serene day appreciating the trees and the music. Well, soon after taking the spice, I started needing to lie down and close my eyes, and I felt quite physically uncomfortable. As I felt myself losing my body, I was like, "damn, I took too much, I didn't want to lose control of my body". The body load was uncomfortable and I hoped it would end. I started getting the message, "you shouldn't have taken dmt, you don't need this just to breathe and appreciate the forest. Just appreciate what you have". But I was still light hearted at this point. I was just like, "oh well, I took a bit too much, you dummy, no major harm done". My normal thought processes soon faded, and I was somewhere in limbo, somewhat hearing the music I was listening to, another part of me going through mental loops, and another part of me in la la land, some sort of unimaginable divine holy place where I was seeing things of impossible beauty. The strange thing is though, I was only vaguely aware of the holy place. It's like I would be in some sort of trance and only when I snapped out of it did I realize I had been looking at the most beautiful thing I had ever seen. In the trance, I would realize I was having oev’s looking at the mat I was laying on, morphing in blue awesomeness. But as soon as I became aware that I was seeing this, the oev’s went away immediately. Perhaps I am not yet used to these substances, and I'll have to learn to recognize that divine place, and allow the visuals.

I would go deeper and deeper and closer and closer in to sleep, then snap out of it. "crap, did I just fall asleep? I think I'm awake now" then I'd look around at the trees and notice the whole world had turned a beautiful shade of green. This semi aware state seemed to last for quite a while, not increasing in intensity for what seemed like a long time. I figured it would just wear off after a while, and I'd get up soon, and leave this fairly unpleasant trip behind. I wasn't too afraid at this point, just trying to grove on the music... which by the way, sounded really awesome and was an experience all its own. Forms made of darkness, outlined by crystal brilliance danced in my head.

But then..... the music stopped. The batteries ran out and there was no more music. No more company, just me out there alone, and it was starting to rain, making me aware of the lonely environment around me. They say emotions are heightened during trips. Perhaps that music was the only thing keeping me from experiencing any severe emotions, or going in to mental loops, but when that music stopped...... so began the end of the world. Get ready for the apocalypse.

The trip progressed to deep magnitudes of terror and loss, and my body weakened to near or total unconsciousness. My body had been taken over by what seemed to be an all powerful force. I was gone, there was only this force that had taken over my body, mind, and spirit, and it was tearing me to shreds. I was a puppet to this force, and it had total control. If you can imagine an all powerful force that is not all loving, just all powerful, and it has taken control of your body, and it doesn’t care if you live or die or go through immense suffering. This force was in the process of pulling me apart, that’s what it was like. There was also this realization that this force is all there is, all there ever was, and all that ever will be. I had just remained lucky up until this point to have never seen this side of the force, only now it was showing what it could to me, or anyone if it chose, it could crush me and there is no escape from it. This all powerful force was most unsympathetic to whatever happened to me, the person, whether I lived or died it did not care, for IT was immortal, and I was NOTHING compared to IT.

There was also the absolute certainty, at the same time, that I was this force. Time had stopped and lost all meaning. I was locked in eternity and could not escape, for this was all that ever was. Every moment was an eternity. Me, reduced to a little molecule of suffering. What was a short time ago a light hearted, "oops, I took too much", had turned in to a life and death struggle… and by this point it had gone beyond a life and death struggle to a struggle to save my very soul from being ripped apart. It was a struggle for my spirit. I had previously though my spirit was infinitely stronger than the body, yet here I was feeling like my very spirit was being pulled apart. I struggled to hold on to anything that was familiar, anything at all. My mind and spirit were tumbling around violently on the inside, and I was struggling just to get my bearings, eyes closed most of the time in a void of evil blackness. Any time I became conscious of something familiar, like my breath, I was like, “yes! I just breathed, maybe I’ll survive this”. I couldn’t get up, I was locked down there by a tonnes of gravity that the all powerful force was imposing on me. Locking me down and not releasing me, spinning me off in to mental loops, each one leading to hell.

I was receiving a message from this all powerful force which was telling me, "you stupid dummy! You thought you knew anything about anything! You are nothing! Everything you realized in your first trip is NOTHING. How could you believe any of it? There is absolutely nothing for you to know. THERE IS NO ANSWER! There is no question! There is no time, there is no you. Anything you ever think you know for your entire life is garbage, how could you be so stupid? Just appreciate what you have. There is no answer to any of this, and there is no way out. Just appreciate what you have, you stupid dummy."

And so, my most natural thought to all of this was, "if there is no answer, if there is nothing.... then how the hell am I experiencing all of this?" and this question, as well as every single thought that popped in to my mind for what seemed like an eternity was met with a terrible mocking all powerful spirit telling me, THERE IS NO ANSWER!! and no escape. Just appreciate what you have, you stupid idiot! Any thought I had was somehow turned in to torture, as it was seen that any thought I had could be turned upside down because the opposite could also be true, so any thought that was believed led to a paradox where the opposite was somehow also true. Therefore, nothing made sense anymore, and I was being told I was so stupid for believing any of it. Amazing how one day God and the universe can be seen as an all loving benevolent intelligence, and a little while later, nothing could be further from the truth. So I was going in mental circles, and any thought I had lead to hell, lead to the destruction of everything I knew, and left me confused, with a broken mind and body so heavy I could not stand.

I begged for forgiveness, I begged for anything just to release me from this unimaginable horror where any path I took lead to hell. This all powerful force even saw my begging as an invitation to send me to hell too. There was nothing I could do. Soon I didn't even know what I was begging for. Was I begging to live or was I begging to die? I couldn't even tell anymore. I just wanted to be free from this horror. If I thought that dying would allow me to escape the horror, then I would do it. If living could allow escape from the horror, then I’d do that. By this time it was clear that death would be no escape, I didn’t know what death was anymore. I wished I never existed to face this. I was in a place of utter darkness. I thought of the sun, and how brilliant it once was, how I would do anything just to see the sun again because it was familiar, but now I was in a place where nothing made sense.

I realized that I am, and always have been, and always will be, at the absolute mercy of whatever this all powerful force was. I would do anything in order to escape its terror. I've always considered myself to be non-violent, but if I had no choice I would fight in wars to escape its terror. There is nothing I couldn't do when presented with the alternative of facing this unimaginable horror, or choosing to do any despicable thing on this earth in order to avoid that horror. Life and death became meaningless. There was no such thing as life and death any more. There was only escaping this terror, or not. And then I knew I could never really judge a person again. They fight in wars, they kill and steal and maim.... they're all afraid. They don’t know what this force is that animates their body, and they’re afraid of it, what it could do. And everyday life is no different. People get angry, upset over “little things”, and they don’t even know why. There’s just some drive inside them that drives them to be angry….. as if they are automatic. Something happens that annoys them, and their response is totally automatic in response. Like it’s an automatic response if someone cuts you off, you yell and give them the finger. Like there is no alternative, you’re just responding to this force inside you that commanded you to get angry and flip the bird. But life doesn’t have to be that way. It only seems automatic (note: this is something I realized only after days of integration. During the trip itself, it seemed I was utterly doomed to do as this all powerful force commanded. Only after integration did I realize the message the trip was trying to tell me. You’re NOT a puppet, but it will seem that way if the force is resisted in any way, if you try to escape, you’ll be locked down because it is so much more powerful than you. Don’t try to escape and it will release.) The same is true in life, as I’ve had time to test it.

Back to the trip, if I thought I could kill myself to avoid this horror, that's what I would do. If I had to kill someone else to protect myself from this horror, that's what I would do, and that's what anyone would do. There is no saying yes to horror of this magnitude. It is by its own nature, that which cannot be faced (so I thought during the trip). This horror is infinite in its depth, for the very nature of this horror is to be infinitely ahead of you. As soon as you THINK you could possibly face this horror, it merely mutates and shows you that you knew nothing after all. If you thought you knew what fear was a second ago, it will manifest a new fear. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper. The pit is bottomless and there is no escape. And it will last FOREVER. That’s what this trip was, an exploration of fear. Any fear I had, I was shown that it could be worse, and worse and worse beyond comprehension. I was doomed.
How surprised I was that only a short time ago I thought death was the worst thing that could happen to me, but now it was seen as maybe a blessing. But the opposite is true. Death is not the worst thing that could happen, the worst thing that could happen is eternal life. Eternal life with this infinite force controlling your body and mind, and every time you think you could face its horror, the horror just keeps getting worse and worse, and there is no end...... ever. You will be lost in a sea of darkness, constantly struggling to get your bearings. Where has your body gone? Where has your mind gone? Who am I? What am I trying to do here? I am terrified, how do I get out of this? Am I trying to survive or am I trying to kill myself to avoid this horror? I imagined that my body could die but it might not actually be the end. My human consciousness might remain even though I no longer have a body, and I’d just wander the earth as a scared, cold, lonely ghost in tremendous pain with almost no control over anything, I’d watch my own funeral but have no home to go to afterwards, as I’d start to lose my memory of anything familiar, and I’d just roam the earth eternally searching for anything familiar. This would be my reality forever with no end, and no hope. And I marvelled at how terrible it was…. That my familiar life as I knew it only lasted a few years, but now I was doomed to an eternity as a wandering ghost.

I snapped out of this trance momentarily. I lifted my head and looked around at the lonely forest. I was shivering in the rain and I said aloud, “I am afraid". I am afraid. And I just sat there repeating, I am afraid, as I realized that I, as well as every other person, is a scared lonely child, always struggling to cling to anything that is familiar. The sun, your breath, your life, family, anything you can get a hold of that tells you who you are, and that you’re ok… because there is an unimaginable nightmare lurking underneath the things that are familiar to you….. loss of self.
I looked down and noticed there was a big slug that climbed up on the mat that I was lying on. It felt like the insects were closing in. As soon as I died they were going to start eating my body and my face off. I looked at it and said, “hello mr. Slug. Do you know what I’m going through?”. I was cold and broken, but the trip was not over, I would not yet be released. I put my head down and went in to semi-unconsciousness where I remained in hell for I don't know how long.

I awoke only when the rain started pouring buckets, and it was getting dark. The slug had moved closer. At that point, I figured I had better try to get out of there, even though I had very little control over my body. Using everything I had, I willed myself to stand, and it felt like rising from the dead. Miraculously, I was able to navigate through the forest in the pouring rain over slippery rocks. I felt only half there. I rarely walk through this path without stumbling, especially when it's raining. However, this time, I felt no fear to close my eyes and walk through the forest in the rain over slippery rocks with eyes closed. It was impossible, yet I was doing it. Somehow I knew where every rock was and I knew I would not fall. I wondered if I was actually walking at all. Maybe I had left my body back there in the forest, and I had entered some new reality with no body, and my death was just the next step in this existence. I literally felt like I was doing something utterly impossible. Reality had collapsed, reality was not what I thought it was. If this can happen, anything can happen. I just don’t know anymore. I had entered the world of the dead.

When I got out of the ravine, there was horror, and also a dark joy. The joy was, “wow…. Even though that was scary as fuck and I experienced something impossible, like rising from the dead….. I’m still here. I can get through something completely impossible and I’m still here. Apparently, the dmt is going to wear off, and I’m just going to go home as if none of this ever happened, and by tomorrow it’ll all be just a memory”.

I did not yet feel well enough to go home, so I walked on a nature path in a torrential downpour in the darkness, my body numbed from the dmt. Eventually I became cold and found shelter. I thought about life and my impossible experience. I thought to myself how I am literally a starving, lonely scared child. I thought maybe I am a very young soul, a very young inexperienced soul, and that's why I'm out here alone, shaking in the cold rain in the darkness. I figured I better get back to a warm place. On the walk back home, the lightning came like I had never seen, and I thought this was going to kill me. I survived the lightning and couldn’t believe it. The whole trip was like the end of the world, the apocalypse. How fitting for the trip to end in a powerful storm, with lightning threatening to destroy me, just like that all powerful spirit threatened to rip me apart.

The next day I began to integrate my experience. I learned something very important. I refused to believe any of that stuff I went through in the trip. I realized that I could spend forever trying to wrap my mind around how I could experience something impossible, like rising from the dead. I could spend a life time freaking myself out about this powerful force. I refused. That trip was the universe telling me, even the things you think you can’t take…. you can still take it. You can be ripped to shreds and rise from the dead and you’re still fucking here! And my spirit still soars. You could lift a mountain if it was God’s will for you to do so. If I must, I can, and I will. So when I think back to that terrifying experience, it’s not so scary anymore. I’m just like, “meh, it happened, but it’s over now.” That’s it. It was just the next step. It’s always just the next step. I could see how such an experience could traumatize a person, but I didn’t let it. The experience has only made me realize just how strong I am. Strength in weakness. The strength that I realized is that I could be destroyed at any moment. Accepting this is a powerful thing. Fighting this fact is what will drive you nuts…. always afraid that you might go back to that horrible place. Or trying to figure out an answer to something that is completely impossible. I just say it’s over, and move on. It really is that easy. I realized that I, as well as everyone else and everything else, is ultimately doomed. But this is good news because it is a door to realize how free you really are. Or, if resisted, it is a door to doom, to the apocalypse.

And this experience did not scare me away from dmt, but I will tend toward low doses. The next trips in the 20-40 mg range are utterly ecstatic.
 
aye-ay-aye frog9....

planning. Pharma can take 4-8 hours! Hypothermia doesn't care if we have a noob moment.


We all must pass through suffering; yet this is best done when we hold an intention for every second (usually love and surrender). Without that well-prepared and peaceful focus, we simply get fucked. This is not rocket fuel, more will not make you heal or explore farther or faster.


You are allowed to make you own decisions, i just type this because i care.



best,

a
 
Going into something like that without major, heartfelt intent can lead to chaos.

I'm not sure if you took Caapi or not, but if not, Caapi has always guided me well, even though some dark and hellish places. I would advise adding at least some Caapi to your mix, if you are not already.
 
I refused to believe any of that stuff I went through in the trip. I realized that I could spend forever trying to wrap my mind around how I could experience something impossible, like rising from the dead. I could spend a life time freaking myself out about this powerful force. I refused. That trip was the universe telling me, even the things you think you can’t take…. you can still take it. You can be ripped to shreds and rise from the dead and you’re still fucking here! And my spirit still soars. You could lift a mountain if it was God’s will for you to do so. If I must, I can, and I will. So when I think back to that terrifying experience, it’s not so scary anymore. I’m just like, “meh, it happened, but it’s over now.” That’s it. It was just the next step. It’s always just the next step. I could see how such an experience could traumatize a person, but I didn’t let it. The experience has only made me realize just how strong I am. Strength in weakness. The strength that I realized is that I could be destroyed at any moment. Accepting this is a powerful thing. Fighting this fact is what will drive you nuts…. always afraid that you might go back to that horrible place. Or trying to figure out an answer to something that is completely impossible. I just say it’s over, and move on. It really is that easy. I realized that I, as well as everyone else and everything else, is ultimately doomed. But this is good news because it is a door to realize how free you really are. Or, if resisted, it is a door to doom, to the apocalypse.

And this experience did not scare me away from dmt, but I will tend toward low doses. The next trips in the 20-40 mg range are utterly ecstatic.[/quote]


great story ! Your ability to integrate this is inspiring. I've been trying to come to terms with that powerful force you speak of too. I got rattled to my core from that all powerful unrelenting horrible force. I know of what you speak .

The problem i've had is that i've tried to understand it. I felt closer to madness from it than ever before in my whole life.
It is truly amazing that our sense of self can be splintered into a million fractal fragments and we can live to tell about it. Honestly the ripples from such an experience turn out to be positive.

I'm curious how you will approach your future journeys. I found that nothing you can do can go up against that force . Everything is meaningless in the face of that power.

I've concluded that having no fear whatsoever is the only way i can think of to manage that level of power in the moment.
There is no reference point when you are in that storm. Fear is such an integral part of being human how can we learn to discard it completely in a moment?
 
Felnik said:
Fear is such an integral part of being human how can we learn to discard it completely in a moment?
Letting everything go, abandoning your sense of self, your mind and your body and stepping forward into the blinding white light :)
It does sound a very interesting experience and almost makes me fear "bad trips" less in some strange way.
 
That's a test by the way. To truly be a good person, you have to be courageous too. Your commitment to being good will be tested. There will be weaker, easier ways out quite often. There will be paths that require you to violate some of your ethical beliefs. A true hero is someone who uses the same code of ethics in a great situation and in the worst of situations.

I'd like to be so strong one day that even if I was threatened with eternity in hell, I would not renounce the way of goodness and sell myself out.

Very deep, insane trip btw =)
 
fnog9 - I understand what you are talking about - I have experienced this terrifying power within hyperspace. and it is terrifying; it seems eternal when it is happening. We are not talking about a 'dark' or bad trip here, are we ... it is just a level of power that is utterly indifferent, that consumes you, shreds you to pieces. It is not simply ego death. I have yet to go back inside after a similar experience; I am not sure I ever will.

There are a few of us who have seen this - and it seems the number is increasing. I'm not sure why; but truly we have no idea what we are entering into.
 
fnog9, fnog9, fnog9...

WOW. have had had similar trips to hell/non-existence (one very/too recently...). And have learned immensely and profoundly. BUT THE PAIN... the seemingly eternal DOLORES...

Why do we subject ourselves to this? More to the point (I know my answer) why do YOU?

Curiouser and curiouser,

JBArk
 
Looks like you learned some valuable lessons there :)
Welcome back and yes you can be proud of yourself. You managed and you're ok :)

And some people say psychedelics are cheating. Like it's the easy way to enlightenment. Nothing about an experience like this sounds easy. I've had hellish experiences like this and I don't think you can ever experience suffering like that in the consensus reality.
 
@fnog9: Thanks for the excellent write-up, and best of luck integrating all this!

What you've described is very similar to my recent experience with Acacia confusa/Peganum harmala ayahuasca analog. I too went through an episode of uncontrollable paranoid personality disintegration, where every notion I hold (including the notion of being human) was questioned, mocked and turned inside out, and where I was caught in a time-trap which felt like eternity (mocking my notions of a finite duration of ayahuasca effects, and my notions of time itself). The difference was that I was on my bed, in a familiar and comfortable environment, and that I reached a cathartic blissful state towards the end of the trip. My consciousness remained disturbed for the next few days, but the integration has been quite successful thereafter.
 
I had the feeling of an external force of some kind pulling me into its power . I have since wondered about that assessment .

what do you guys think? is this dark powerful energy force some knowing external force ?

Is it our minds out of total fear trying to blame this dissintigration on an outside entity?

I have been wrestling with this ever since this similar thing happened to me . Whats real and what is our mind manifesting in all this?

just as in fnog9's experience there was this feeling like something was saying " you think you know what this is?"

" you don't know anything, this power is beyond your comprehension!" I have supreme power over you now"

what is the source of all this?
 
Felnik said:
great story ! Your ability to integrate this is inspiring. I've been trying to come to terms with that powerful force you speak of too. I got rattled to my core from that all powerful unrelenting horrible force. I know of what you speak .

The problem i've had is that i've tried to understand it. I felt closer to madness from it than ever before in my whole life.
It is truly amazing that our sense of self can be splintered into a million fractal fragments and we can live to tell about it. Honestly the ripples from such an experience turn out to be positive.

I'm curious how you will approach your future journeys. I found that nothing you can do can go up against that force . Everything is meaningless in the face of that power.

I've concluded that having no fear whatsoever is the only way i can think of to manage that level of power in the moment.
There is no reference point when you are in that storm. Fear is such an integral part of being human how can we learn to discard it completely in a moment?

Thanks for the responses ya'll.

I will approach future trips with lower doses. I've found the range where I can have a great trip without the body load so strong to knock me out. On the doses I take, if needed I can get up and walk out any time. 20-40 mg is just peachy. That terrifying place was half body load, half psychological. The all powerful force was like the gravity of God crushing my body. That only happens with higher doses.

I don't have any particular way I approach trips. If I have the time for a trip, and the right place, and I feel up for an adventure, and there's no other immediate obligations, I'll take some spice. I don't know how people prepare for trips. The first time I took dmt, I expected that I was going to get scared. I don't try to overcome the fear.... I just let it happen anyway. There's something about me internally that has learned that overall, spice is tremendously good, even if there are moments when it is uncomfortable and scary etc etc. So I just take it, not really concerned about whether I'm going to get scared or not. By this point though, I think so positively of spice that I don't have to psyche myself up to do it, it's not scary at all. It's fantastic!!! It doesn't show yet from this apocalypse report because I haven't posted my other glorious reports yet. I actually plan on taking a larger dose, but I'll have to find a sitter for that trip, and do it inside. I believe I am ready to face that ultimate fear. And when I say that, I mean that since I am ready, I don't expect to encounter the fear at all. The fact that I'm not afraid anymore means the fear no longer exists. That's how it works. If you're afraid, you've already encountered fear, you can't escape it. There is no fear other than trying to escape fear. We'll find out. If what I say is true, I expect to encounter a lot of diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces. In my experiences, the highest highs manifest as sacred spaces and diamonds, divine beings, infinity, etc. The fear won't be there. It'll just be me grooving on whatever appears. We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath.

So if you're still afraid of that force, you're still afraid. It will release when it is time for it to release. Maybe you'll decide to face that fear anyway even though you're not over it. Maybe it will help, maybe it will get worse. I've taking huge doses not knowing if it will be good, or if I'll just get really. But I always have come out better, even when it's bad.

Oh yeah, I wasn't close to getting hypothermia. As I said, when I got out of the forest, I chose to go for a walk in the rain. I didn't have to. I wasn't that cold.
 
Felnik said:
I had the feeling of an external force of some kind pulling me into its power . I have since wondered about that assessment .

what do you guys think? is this dark powerful energy force some knowing external force ?

Is it our minds out of total fear trying to blame this dissintigration on an outside entity?

I have been wrestling with this ever since this similar thing happened to me . Whats real and what is our mind manifesting in all this?

just as in fnog9's experience there was this feeling like something was saying " you think you know what this is?"

" you don't know anything, this power is beyond your comprehension!" I have supreme power over you now"

what is the source of all this?

Well, as for me, I don't even really pay attention to it. As I said, I wouldn't let it get to me. I wouldn't go on trying to figure out, or let it drive me nuts. Besides, it literally told me there is no answer and I believe that. So I just interpret what happened as the universe showing me you can get totally destroyed and you're still ok. So it wasn't about figuring out what the energy was. It was showing me just how strong I am.
 
Here are some revealing, puzzling, and annoying quotes:

fnog9 said:
”The first time I took dmt, I expected that I was going to get scared.”

“By this point though, I think so positively of spice that I don't have to psyche myself up to do it, it's not scary at all.”

“I actually plan on taking a larger dose, but I'll have to find a sitter for that trip, and do it inside. I believe I am ready to face that ultimate fear. And when I say that, I mean that since I am ready, I don't expect to encounter the fear at all. The fact that I'm not afraid anymore means the fear no longer exists. That's how it works.”

“…I expect to encounter a lot of diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces. In my experiences, the highest highs manifest as sacred spaces and diamonds, divine beings, infinity, etc.”

“We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath.”

Lots of expectations, eh?

And very particular, too. Why would you expect “diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces”?

I thought you were learning some valuable lessons from your high-dose experiences, but now I’m not so sure. I’m not even sure that your experiences were as deep and profound as you’re making them out to be. Virtually everyone who has gone deep comes back humbled by the experience. I see no humility in your words.

You have been frightened by the spice, but you haven’t yet been humbled by the spice.

Oh, and by the way, no one is ever ready to take God’s wrath.
 
gibran2 said:
Here are some revealing, puzzling, and annoying quotes:

fnog9 said:
”The first time I took dmt, I expected that I was going to get scared.”

“By this point though, I think so positively of spice that I don't have to psyche myself up to do it, it's not scary at all.”

“I actually plan on taking a larger dose, but I'll have to find a sitter for that trip, and do it inside. I believe I am ready to face that ultimate fear. And when I say that, I mean that since I am ready, I don't expect to encounter the fear at all. The fact that I'm not afraid anymore means the fear no longer exists. That's how it works.”

“…I expect to encounter a lot of diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces. In my experiences, the highest highs manifest as sacred spaces and diamonds, divine beings, infinity, etc.”

“We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath.”

Lots of expectations, eh?

And very particular, too. Why would you expect “diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces”?

I thought you were learning some valuable lessons from your high-dose experiences, but now I’m not so sure. I’m not even sure that your experiences were as deep and profound as you’re making them out to be. Virtually everyone who has gone deep comes back humbled by the experience. I see no humility in your words.

You have been frightened by the spice, but you haven’t yet been humbled by the spice.

Oh, and by the way, no one is ever ready to take God’s wrath.

I have to agree. Kudos to you for turning a trying experience into one that illustrates your inner strength, but the bravado and macho posturing you leap to from there leaves some of us questioning.

Its good to put a positive spin on the experience, but not at the expense of the lessons.

These substances tend to do one of two things: set up a megalomaniacal messianic complex or teach deep humility. Which of these two is most manifest in your accounts?

Claiming to be ready to face the wrath of god paints the picture pretty clearly... This is why Gibran2 went to the trouble of posting "some revealing, puzzling, and annoying quotes".

Take care of yourself. Question more, not less. Where the mind and spirit are concerned conclusions are antithetical to understanding.

JBArk
 
I'm afraid there is an element of wrath in there. I've felt it and many others have as well.
I wish it wasn't true. I don't understand it and may never. The bad must balance the good in some way.

It can be so good and at the same time can be so so bad almost bordering on evil.

I'm hoping that it is simply an aberration of our scared monkey minds in the heat of an extreme unknown experience.

If there is a knowing force at the source of this power we have a serious problem.
 
gibran2 said:
Here are some revealing, puzzling, and annoying quotes:

fnog9 said:
”The first time I took dmt, I expected that I was going to get scared.”

“By this point though, I think so positively of spice that I don't have to psyche myself up to do it, it's not scary at all.”

“I actually plan on taking a larger dose, but I'll have to find a sitter for that trip, and do it inside. I believe I am ready to face that ultimate fear. And when I say that, I mean that since I am ready, I don't expect to encounter the fear at all. The fact that I'm not afraid anymore means the fear no longer exists. That's how it works.”

“…I expect to encounter a lot of diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces. In my experiences, the highest highs manifest as sacred spaces and diamonds, divine beings, infinity, etc.”

“We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath.”

Lots of expectations, eh?

And very particular, too. Why would you expect “diamonds and sacred rooms and spaces”?

I thought you were learning some valuable lessons from your high-dose experiences, but now I’m not so sure. I’m not even sure that your experiences were as deep and profound as you’re making them out to be. Virtually everyone who has gone deep comes back humbled by the experience. I see no humility in your words.

You have been frightened by the spice, but you haven’t yet been humbled by the spice.

Oh, and by the way, no one is ever ready to take God’s wrath.

annoying? Well, I was pointing to something I learned on dmt, and confirmed to be true in everyday life. To look at fear is to make it disappear. The desire to be free from fear IS fear. There is no other kind of fear, or suffering. Anything that gets looked at becomes something else. Like driving down a straight road towards a horizon that is never reached, then you turn the car and you're driving towards something else. That's what happens any time attention is shifted. It's so subtle we don't normally notice. So, that's why I say I don't expect to encounter fear. It's because I'm not so afraid to be afraid. I might encounter somthing like fear, but it seems I'm ready to see that fear from a different perspective, and then it will not be the same thing anymore, it will be something else... perhaps turn in to a diamond or something, just a guess. I'm sure I'll see lots of things. I encounter this phenomenon in everday life. I look at, and accept something that bothers me, and what it once was disappears in to something else. A spaciousness, a relief of pressure. I then realize that the reality I was living a few moments ago no longer exists, and I've shifted paths on to something else. I realize the path I was on a moment ago COULD have gone on FOREVER. It's the same thing in dmt land, only in dmt land, things tend to manifest very visually, so I might see a diamond. In normal world, there is still a rich inner working of emotions and images that arise and fall away and morph in to things like anger and happiness etc.

I don't know what you mean by humbled. I encountered an "all powerful force", but at the same time, I realize it's not actually an all powerful force, it's the perception of an all powerful force.... the experience of a person having the experience of an all powerful force. It's ultimately as real, or as illusory as anything else. Yes, I did look at that fear, and turn away towards another path. I guess I could see why it might not be considered humble.

I am willing to go to "forbidden zones". I am willing to be a mad scientist with my consciousness. Like, let's see where this leads, even if it's scary because I just need to know. And ultimately, it's always lead somewhere great. Isn't everyone here doing something like that?

Also, when I said I plan on "taking a larger dose", I didn't mean larger than I have already taken. I just meant I plan on someday again taking a strong dose.
 
The fact that you dont acknowledge their point even one tiny bit, that you immediately argue against it, indicates IMO that you really didnt 'get it'. Dont you think it would be more reasonable to at least think for a moment "hmmm, maybe, just maybe, they are right, maybe I dont know everything, maybe im not being humble, maybe its a lot of my ego talking here and I could try to improve" ?

Of course there is truth in what you say, valid aspects in your experience and words, but this doesnt take away the very important negative aspects that could be improved. At least to me it seems you are avoiding your own shadow and unbalanced ego-centered behavior, which is:
1- Dangerous for you (to eventually repeat higher doses or just have a strong cathartic non-psychedelic experience and really NOT be able to deal with it, potentially hurting yourself physically or psychologically)
2- Dangerous for others here, specially new members, that may read your words and find it "cool" to experiment with higher dosages, and not be ready for what happens, maybe seriously endangering themselves
3- Frustrating for members and non-beneficial for the community in general, that keeps pointing something out but you just dont seem to listen. Makes it feel like you are not being a part of the community in a bi(or multi)direccional relation but rather coming here with some kind of monologue, so quickly disregarding and turning the constructive criticism away ("yeah I see it could seem not-humble to others BUT actually its just me being a good explorer and brave guy" )

Think about it...................
 
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