Apocalypse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gibran2]

To look at fear is to make it disappear. The desire to be free from fear IS fear. There is no other kind of fear, or suffering….So, that's why I say I don't expect to encounter fear. It's because I'm not so afraid to be afraid. I might encounter somthing like fear, but it seems I'm ready to see that fear from a different perspective, and then it will not be the same thing anymore, it will be something else... perhaps turn in to a diamond or something, just a guess.

Fear is an emotion. It is neither good nor bad. There are many things that can trigger fear in an individual. Although an individual’s expectations may influence outcomes, they don’t determine outcomes.

Fear is a very primitive emotion. Dogs and cats experience fear. Sea urchins experience fear. Human beings are capable of having much more sophisticated feelings. So don’t think that once you conquer your fear (if that’s even possible or advisable) that your work is done. Personally, my most traumatic and difficult experience didn’t involve fear at all.

And what’s all this talk about diamonds?

I don't know what you mean by humbled. I encountered an "all powerful force", but at the same time, I realize it's not actually an all powerful force, it's the perception of an all powerful force.... the experience of a person having the experience of an all powerful force.

Well, it’s obvious you don’t know what I mean by “humbled”.

Your statement about an all-powerful force is self-contradictory. If you recognized that what you encountered was not an all-powerful force, then you can’t claim that you encountered an all-powerful force. You could say that you encountered something that you at first thought was all-powerful, but later realized wasn’t.

I am willing to go to "forbidden zones". I am willing to be a mad scientist with my consciousness. Like, let's see where this leads, even if it's scary because I just need to know. And ultimately, it's always lead somewhere great. Isn't everyone here doing something like that?

Self-contradictory again. You may be willing to go to “forbidden zones”, but by definition, you’ll never actually go to such places. If you can go somewhere, then it isn’t forbidden.

I can’t say why everyone here does what they do, but I can say that I am not willing to be a “mad scientist” with my consciousness. Maybe more of an explorer or seeker, but definitely not a mad scientist.

 

[Apoc]

The fact that you dont acknowledge their point even one tiny bit, that you immediately argue against it, indicates IMO that you really didnt 'get it'. Dont you think it would be more reasonable to at least think for a moment "hmmm, maybe, just maybe, they are right, maybe I dont know everything, maybe im not being humble, maybe its a lot of my ego talking here and I could try to improve" ?

Of course there is truth in what you say, valid aspects in your experience and words, but this doesnt take away the very important negative aspects that could be improved. At least to me it seems you are avoiding your own shadow and unbalanced ego-centered behavior, which is:
1- Dangerous for you (to eventually repeat higher doses or just have a strong cathartic non-psychedelic experience and really NOT be able to deal with it, potentially hurting yourself physically or psychologically)
2- Dangerous for others here, specially new members, that may read your words and find it "cool" to experiment with higher dosages, and not be ready for what happens, maybe seriously endangering themselves
3- Frustrating for members and non-beneficial for the community in general, that keeps pointing something out but you just dont seem to listen. Makes it feel like you are not being a part of the community in a bi(or multi)direccional relation but rather coming here with some kind of monologue, so quickly disregarding and turning the constructive criticism away ("yeah I see it could seem not-humble to others BUT actually its just me being a good explorer and brave guy" )

Think about it...................

Maybe I'm not being humble. Maybe they are right, maybe I don't know everything. Maybe I don't know anything.

I thought I did acknowledge points, but maybe I didn't. I did make an entire thread warning people not to take high doses, unless they want a hellish experience. And in this case, I'm talking about doses like 100mg being large.

I didn't really see anything being pointed out to me other than I'm not being humble. I just see it differently. What do you mean when you say people continue pointint things out and I don't listen? The taking of large doses? I don't know why you see my responses are being argumentative. Perhaps I was just merely expressing my thoughts for others to understand. Who's argumentative?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

When I first read this post, all I could do was shake my head, roll my eyes, and say "oh man, here goes fnog9 again". Now reading your replies to people it's more than apparent that you just don't get it, and like the Washington Post used to say:

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

There's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. The main issue here is not dealing with you telling people about dose sizes, it's the false bravado and posturing that seeps from every line of your report. It's the "this doesn't apply to me" mentality that is apparent in the various self-contradictory statements you have made throughout this thread. It's the fact that you come across as an overly prideful person who is unwilling to accept the lessons being proffered to you. It's the fact that for whatever reason you are unable to see this.

SB

 

[Acolyte]

As a side conversation: i think all this talk about "Ego" vs. "humble" is silly.


WE NEED BOTH. The issue is hubris, when you no longer except facts that hit you on the face. The humblest person may still has an ego that may deflect certain facts. I now think ego is necessary: how will other people have faith in you, if you don't have faith in yourself? Why should they care? How will they even notice you?

i think "Confidence" and "ego" are interlinked?


just some thoughts8)



(Frog9: I'm glad it wasn't cold enough to get hypo. I come from a cold climate and we can get it even in summer, at 55 - 65 degrees, if we're out long enough :? )

 

[gibran2]

As a side conversation: i think all this talk about "Ego" vs. "humble" is silly.


WE NEED BOTH. The issue is hubris, when you no longer except facts that hit you on the face. The humblest person may still has an ego that may deflect certain facts. I now think ego is necessary: how will other people have faith in you, if you don't have faith in yourself? Why should they care? How will they even notice you?

i think "Confidence" and "ego" are interlinked?

“Humble” - not proud or arrogant; modest. Courteously respectful.

“Hubris” - excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.

Humility is not the opposite of egocentrism, it’s the opposite of hubris.

 

[Apoc]

Fear is a very primitive emotion. Dogs and cats experience fear. Sea urchins experience fear. Human beings are capable of having much more sophisticated feelings. So don’t think that once you conquer your fear (if that’s even possible or advisable) that your work is done. Personally, my most traumatic and difficult experience didn’t involve fear at all.

Nah man, sea urchins don't experience fear. Anyway, all I'm saying is, to look at anything is to look toward another path. To put it concisely, and use as little interpretive language as possible. Fear is included in that...... so I've found anyway. I don't mean to sound as if I know everything. If you see things differently, that's fine.

And what’s all this talk about diamonds?

I see diamonds a lot. What's to get?

Your statement about an all-powerful force is self-contradictory. If you recognized that what you encountered was not an all-powerful force, then you can’t claim that you encountered an all-powerful force. You could say that you encountered something that you at first thought was all-powerful, but later realized wasn’t.

OK. I encountered what felt like an all powerful force at the time. I don't see how this changes anything. Plus, the exact words I used in my original post were, "My body had been taken over by what seemed to be an all powerful force. " I don't know why some are looking for contradictions where there aren't any.

I am willing to go to "forbidden zones". I am willing to be a mad scientist with my consciousness. Like, let's see where this leads, even if it's scary because I just need to know. And ultimately, it's always lead somewhere great. Isn't everyone here doing something like that?

Self-contradictory again. You may be willing to go to “forbidden zones”, but by definition, you’ll never actually go to such places. If you can go somewhere, then it isn’t forbidden.

Yet all I said was that I am willing to go to forbidden zones.

I can’t say why everyone here does what they do, but I can say that I am not willing to be a “mad scientist” with my consciousness. Maybe more of an explorer or seeker, but definitely not a mad scientist.

Well, explorer is a term that also applies. Personally, I've come to a point where I'd like to take an experimental approach (hence the scientist term) towards life, cause I've been just living stagnant repeating the same routine for decades. And the term "mad" because I'm willing to go to weird scary places to learn something.

I find it very odd that people are interpreting my posts as "bravado". As far as I can tell, the "bravado" I've shown is just putting a positive spin on the things I've experienced. I feel great to be alive, I feel good about what I've done, and I am exploding with happiness about what dmt has taught me. But apparently some say I'm being egoic and I really don't get it after all. Apparently, happiness is the measure of my failure. That's fine, I'm just pointing it out, because I bet there's also someone out there who are thinking, "yeah, I can see that positive spin he's putting on things, that's inspiring". And this has nothing to do with dmt use, just an attitude. I don’t promote any particular belief system, I don’t believe I have any special abilities, or am anything special at all, I don’t take what I see in trips too literally, or let the trip dictate my life forever. I am just really happy and alive and very grateful for what I’ve learned about myself and emotions on dmt. If that’s bravado, I guess I’m pretty bad ass.

 

[obliguhl]

Oh, and by the way, no one is ever ready to take God’s wrath.

So very true.

But I believe God is not wrathful, as that is incompatible with a Being who loves unconditionally.

God once told me during a spice experience:

"My wrath is the force which compels you to accept love"

It was extremely powerful.

 

[gibran2]

Oh, and by the way, no one is ever ready to take God’s wrath.

So very true.

But I believe God is not wrathful, as that is incompatible with a Being who loves unconditionally.

God once told me during a spice experience:

"My wrath is the force which compels you to accept love"

It was extremely powerful.

I don’t believe in a wrathful God, but the statement “We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath” suggests that someone else does. That’s OK, I don’t generally question other’s beliefs.

But why even make such a statement? If someone believes in a wrathful God, then shouldn’t it be perfectly clear that he is not ready to take God’s wrath? The “we’ll see if I’m ready” phrase suggests that he thinks he might be ready.

If he thinks he’s ready, then what does that say about his relationship with his wrathful God? That he can take whatever his God can dish out? That, at least in this regard, he is equal to his God?

And if he knows he’s not ready and never will be, then why make such a statement in the first place?

 

[obliguhl]

I don’t believe in a wrathful God, but the statement “We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath” suggests that someone else does.

My point was just that the meaning of the phrase "wrath of god" can differ, nevermind...

 

[gibran2]

I don’t believe in a wrathful God, but the statement “We'll see if I'm ready to take God's wrath” suggests that someone else does.

My point was just that the meaning of the phrase "wrath of god" can differ, nevermind...

I think I see how your definition can be related to love. The definition you received could be thought of as “forcefulness” or a “compelling force”?

But here are definitions more in line with how I was thinking about wrath:

1. Forceful, often vindictive anger.
2. Punishment or vengeance as a manifestation of anger.
3. Divine retribution for sin.

 

[Saidin]

Again...a God who loves unconditionally cannot be wrathful. Wrath is putting a condition on love.

If you believe in a God who loves conditionally, like all the Abrahamic religions dictate, as the concept of Hell needs love that is conditional, even though they contradict themselves by preaching that God loves unconditionally. Then it is possible for that God to be wrathful.

So, does God love conditionally or unconditionally?

 

[obliguhl]

The definition you received could be thought of as “forcefulness” or a “compelling force”?

Yes, it was meant in this way. Why? Because God is angered because we "don't get it".

 

[cellux]

Wrath may be the Love of God experienced through the filter of our dualistic thinking.

 

[Saidin]

Wrath may be the Love of God experienced through the filter of our dualistic thinking.

But then God is not wrathful, it is our own minds that distort it so...therefore you are transmuting love through your own filter of unworthiness.

 

[cellux]

But then God is not wrathful, it is our own minds that distort it so...therefore you are transmuting love through your own filter of unworthiness.

Yes, something like that, although I would play a bit and say that in this case God is *actually* wrathful. I think God can experience itself only through the eyes of creation (that's one of its reasons to create), so if we have a filter operating and therefore see God as wrathful, then God IS wrathful, both subjectively and objectively, in that experience.

In such an experience, the entire world may be dark, sinister, negative. To get to the Love, an alchemical transformation of reality is needed.

 

[gibran2]

I’m reading “The Case for God” by Karen Armstrong. The title is a bit misleading – it’s actually more a history of man’s interpretation of God. Here’s a quote I just read:

The concept of a “personal God,” interfering with natural events, or being “an independent cause of natural events” makes God a natural object beside others, an object among others, a being among beings, maybe the highest, but nevertheless, a being. This indeed is not only the destruction of the physical system but even more the destruction of any meaningful idea of God.

 

[El Ka Bong]

Thanks for the report - I laughed at some flashbacks to my similar experiences - oral dmt at 150 mg w 3 g Syrian Rue seed extract / 80 mg ... 120 mg ... pheeew |!

The 'looping' aspects and inescapable-reality feelings - are they due to the type of MAOI used, and if so what's a trick to 'jump' out of those loops ? (what's the sitter to do, how is setting, set etc etc..).I used a warm bath to soothe my body and to get my mind un-looping. I'm still a noobie too, realizing there are fear loops, guilt loops, paranoid loops ... memory loops ... My emotions end up on a 'Rollodex', and each feeling/memory flips up and echoes a thousand times - accordion-like revisions, upon revisions of my memories spool out .. And I get to experience each revision ... |!

Pheeee ... feeeee ewww !

Back to Love...

Frog9 ... Where in that Maelstorm was Love ..?

I wonder - did you surrender or not..? did you just Die already ..?

That struggle sounded familiar - both in the loopiness and in how you didn't get 'fused' into GOD ... like you'd not found a way to go from a duality-state ... to that unitary state ... where both yes-and-no happen at the same time - both sides of the coin exist, you know answer and question to everything ! It anihalates (sp..?) ... it is exstasy to pee your ego's pants off ! .. you can't be YOU anymore ... but you are still.


Let me add - Smoked dmt after drinking 3g syrian Rue seed extract, is wonderful - not loopy, super emotive too ! I want to compare to Cappi this way.

And if I may, I have a question about safe dosages - I want to try Caapi alone in a pharmahuasca - plan to drink 50g Caapi brewed down to 250 ml from 1250 ml H2O, then an oral 50 mg dmt. Any comments on this recipe (I'm 5'9", 145 lbs)..?

 

[Espiridion]

.
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Always good to see you here El KA Bong...

I think that each person is dose dependant, but having said that, my last foray was around 100mg spice 100mg caapi copy and a dropperful(~100mg) of caapi tincture after 3 datura seeds. Eyes open I was in control but eyes closed I was repeatedly tossed into the nether realms.

50mg might be what you need but have more on hand in case you feel the need to go deeper so you wont have to do any prep. Just add spice, doubt you'll need any more caapi than that until roughly the two hour mark.

Happy travels,

Espiridion