Are Cell Phones Carcinogenic?

[pitubo]

mutagenic radiation is ionizing radiation

254 nm UV light is by conventional definition non-ionizing, yet it welds thymine bases in DNA together quite effectively.

microwaves are non-ionizing.

Check out some of the "Microwave plasma ball" videos on youtube, they're funny!

Ever seen a 1000 Watt fluorescent bulb? Put any fluorescent bulb in the microwave today! (Disclaimer: shield the electrodes properly from the microwave radiation or it will glow so hot that the tube breaks, releasing toxic mercury vapors and toxic inner tube coating into kitchen. Best put the bulb into a closed jar before putting into the microwave. Use a microwave device that is not used anymore for preparing food. Additionally, don't perform this experiment with a 254 nm UVC bulb.)

moreover, amplitude is too low to harm tissues from thermal effects

However, have non-thermal effects been definitively ruled out rigorously yet?

 

[benzyme]

mutagenic radiation is ionizing radiation

254 nm UV light is by conventional definition non-ionizing, yet it welds thymine bases in DNA together quite effectively.

254 nm (253.7) is in the UV spectrum, not microwave. UV-C can create ozone from oxygen in air, that is ionization.

 

[Knarkkorven]

If we want to lower the proposed cancer risk, we need to lower the output power from our mobile phones. They are constructed to adjust their output power in relation to the base station reception. Bad reception = high output, good reception = low output.

So, what we want is base stations close to us.

This is however something people who are worried about cancer risk often opposes. Most often they argues that the output power of the base station is hundreds of times higher than our phones. This is correct, but the field power of the transmitted signal get very low when we move away from the antenna, the energy spreads out by the inverse-square law and become extremely low at the distances we usually have to them.

This law is also true when we think about the field power from our neighbors phone on the bus. It's him who receives the radio electromagnetic radiation, not you.

See:

Inverse-square law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Distance and the Inverse Square Law

The inverse square law is used to determine the approximate distance recommended by the Salzburg Precautionary Limit of 2001 and 2002. Power density decreases quickly with distance, but conversely, it increases quickly with proximity.

www.emfwise.com

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/radiofrequencyradiation/electromagnetic_fieldmemo/electromagnetic.html (Appendix B)

 

[pitubo]

254 nm (253.7) is in the UV spectrum, not microwave. UV-C can create ozone from oxygen in air, that is ionization.

In a way this is just nitpicking, but I checked my numbers a bit, to make sure I'm talking out of the right side of my body.

About what is ionizing radiation, eg wikipedia states it as starting at 10 to 30 eV, and as a reference it gives: http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet56/oet56e4.pdf

Quoting from that document:
Federal Communications Commission, Office of Engineering & Technology
OET BULLETIN 56, Fourth Edition, August 1999
"Questions and Answers about Biological Effects and Potential Hazards of Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields"

A single quantum event (absorption of an X-ray or gamma-ray photon) can cause ionization and subsequent biological damage due to the high energy content of the photon, which would be in excess of 10 eV (considered to be the minimum photon energy capable of causing ionization).

As regards ozone generation, the internet, through mostly wikipedia, tells me that ozone production starts at 240 nm.

Back on topic of cellphone radiation, the same FCC document also states:

At the present time, much of the non-military research on biological effects of RF energy in the U.S. is being funded by industry organizations such as Motorola, Inc.

It is so good to know that so much research into this subject is done by independent parties with obviously no conflict of interest!

 

[benzyme]

As regards ozone generation, the internet, through mostly wikipedia, tells me that ozone production starts at 240 nm.

weird, maybe my nose deceives me... because I smell the same scent from 253.7 nm transmission that I did from 28KV arcing from ESI. smells like....ozone.

but you read it on wiki, so it must be true.

 

[pitubo]

This is however something people who are worried about cancer risk often opposes. Most often they argues that the output power of the base station is hundreds of times higher than our phones. This is correct, but the field power of the transmitted signal get very low when we move away from the antenna, the energy spreads out by the inverse-square law and become extremely low at the distances we usually have to them.

Quite often I see apartment buildings with cell phone antennas on the roof. People living on the top floor could be sleeping three meters away from these antenna units. AFAIK there is no epidemiological data proving that these people are dying in significant number, but I sure would not trade places with them.

One time I tried to explain to my brother the Faraday cage effect. For a tangible example experiment I asked him to put his cell phone in the microwave oven with door closed. Next I dialed his cell phone number from the house's land line, expecting to not get a response. To my astonishment, the cell phone started to ring from within the closed microwave! I am not sure what to think of this...

 

[Knarkkorven]

Quite often I see apartment buildings with cell phone antennas on the roof. People living on the top floor could be sleeping three meters away from these antenna units. AFAIK there is no epidemiological data proving that these people are dying in significant number, but I sure would not trade places with them.

I don't think this is a big problem either, but mostly because antennas placed on roof tops direct most power toward the sides and not straight up/down.
Look at this picture: http://lessons2all.com/images/antenna.jpg

With wall mounted antennas, they use sector antennas made to emit all power within 60-180 degrees out from the wall, and almost nothing into the wall/room behind it.

One time I tried to explain to my brother the Faraday cage effect. For a tangible example experiment I asked him to put his cell phone in the microwave oven with door closed. Next I dialed his cell phone number from the house's land line, expecting to not get a response. To my astonishment, the cell phone started to ring from within the closed microwave! I am not sure what to think of this...

The net covering the microwave oven window are not enough to keep all microwaves out. Anyway, another reason for your brothers mobile to have reception is that itself switches between frequency bands and modulation/telecom standards. If the reception disappear on the 3G/4G frequency bands between 1900-2500MHz inside the microwave, it's perhaps probably better on the bands between 700-850 MHz.

 

[pitubo]

.. antennas placed on roof tops direct most power toward the sides and not straight up/down.
Look at this picture: http://lessons2all.com/images/antenna.jpg

That picture actually points out that the irradiated power does not go out cleanly only towards the sides. Close to the antenna, it goes many directions, some lobes go almost straight downwards.

.. Faraday cage .. cell phone started to ring from within the closed microwave! I am not sure what to think of this...

The net covering the microwave oven window are not enough to keep all microwaves out. Anyway, another reason for your brothers mobile to have reception is that itself switches between frequency bands and modulation/telecom standards. If the reception disappear on the 3G/4G frequency bands between 1900-2500MHz inside the microwave, it's perhaps probably better on the bands between 700-850 MHz.

This happened more than ten years ago, perhaps even fifteen, so the cell phone technologies involved are 2G.

But that should not be relevant. As I understand the Faraday cage, no signals should significantly leak through, certainly not signals of lower frequency than the microwave's operating frequency, for which the screen is designed.

I might consider the possibility that the GSM base station has enough power and the cell phone antenna is sensitive enough for it to receive some very weak signal inside the cage. But how could the signal from the cell phone escape the Faraday cage of the microwave oven and still have enough power to reach the GSM base station?

I actually checked that particular microwave oven by holding a fluorescent bulb close to it while it was operating, in order to find any major radiation leaks. It did not light up though.

 

[universecannon]

I don't know, but cell phone companies certainly are.