Hi,
My enquiry is mainly to determine whether stronger effects than the ones I had are possible (and, whether pursuing them is meaningful for me, but that's of course a personal decision).
Preliminarily, based on earlier exchanges in the chat section, I think it would be useful to suggest what I consider an approach to this discussion, likely to yield us the right results. I think it's useful to differentiate between first-order effects and second-order. So, first-order effects are the direct effects of dmt. The second-order effects are our reactions to first-order effects. Second-order effects are partly influenced by our doctrines, past personal experiences, our psycho-neurological make-up, etc.
Of course, a psychoactive drug can trigger and influence multiple orders of reactions in the brain, even with enough strength so that it exceeds the typical extent of self-regulation. Nevertheless, it is important to make the distinction between first and second order effects, because I think there's definitely some feedback between our mindset and our reaction to the effects of the drug. For example, someone who is predisposed in life to religious/mystical experiences, might state that an "overwhelming sense of paradisiatic awe or magic" is one of the stronger effects of dmt. However, this tells us more about the mindset of the person, than about dmt. To me personally, my reaction to first-order effects was amusement, I found the effects overall comical. Since everyone is different, the reaction to first-order effects will vary from person to person, and therefore second-order effects are definitely an interesting area to explore, but unfortunately not the objective of this forum thread. Here I'm hoping to exchange notes about the first-order effects of the drug.
One final preliminary is the caveat that, of course, a lot about the first-order effects cannot easily be described. After all, dmt is a serotonergic psychedelic: it works by being similar enough to serotonin for neurones to mistake it as that; but because of the differences, it is difficult to recall the effects after they end, and to find the right words for a description. On the other hand, I believe we can still define different levels of effects, using minimal descriptions. For example, there is clearly a very low effect, when there is slight euphoria. Then a stronger level, when the visual effects appear, but only as 2D. Then another level, when the plane opens up in 3D, etc. My question is if there is a stronger level of effects than the one I will describe below.
When the effects were in full swing, my body was anaesthetised. I had a sleep mask and ear plugs on, so the stimuli during the effects originated only in my imagination, I wasn't responding at all to my external environment. I think this minimalistic setting was more practical for my objective to determine the different effect levels.
My body (i.e, I) pictured involuntarily a moving 3D plane overlaid with detailed, intricate, changing patterns. I also pictured a lot of activity and movement in the 3D plane, the activity involving the geometrical patterns that overlaid the plane. And I pictured the impression of interactions, and the part of the mind that responds to verbal communication was definitely engaged (this is, I think, what other people refer to as "meeting entities" ). There was a distinct feeling that it was "right" for the brain to react to those stimuli. My musical thinking was also active, I was working out melodic motifs and rhythms in my imagination.
Do you think first-order effects stronger than this are possible? Could you describe them?
Thanks
P.S.: After typing this, I read a number of essays on this forum about "hyper slap" black-outs, and the effects described seemed stronger.
My enquiry is mainly to determine whether stronger effects than the ones I had are possible (and, whether pursuing them is meaningful for me, but that's of course a personal decision).
Preliminarily, based on earlier exchanges in the chat section, I think it would be useful to suggest what I consider an approach to this discussion, likely to yield us the right results. I think it's useful to differentiate between first-order effects and second-order. So, first-order effects are the direct effects of dmt. The second-order effects are our reactions to first-order effects. Second-order effects are partly influenced by our doctrines, past personal experiences, our psycho-neurological make-up, etc.
Of course, a psychoactive drug can trigger and influence multiple orders of reactions in the brain, even with enough strength so that it exceeds the typical extent of self-regulation. Nevertheless, it is important to make the distinction between first and second order effects, because I think there's definitely some feedback between our mindset and our reaction to the effects of the drug. For example, someone who is predisposed in life to religious/mystical experiences, might state that an "overwhelming sense of paradisiatic awe or magic" is one of the stronger effects of dmt. However, this tells us more about the mindset of the person, than about dmt. To me personally, my reaction to first-order effects was amusement, I found the effects overall comical. Since everyone is different, the reaction to first-order effects will vary from person to person, and therefore second-order effects are definitely an interesting area to explore, but unfortunately not the objective of this forum thread. Here I'm hoping to exchange notes about the first-order effects of the drug.
One final preliminary is the caveat that, of course, a lot about the first-order effects cannot easily be described. After all, dmt is a serotonergic psychedelic: it works by being similar enough to serotonin for neurones to mistake it as that; but because of the differences, it is difficult to recall the effects after they end, and to find the right words for a description. On the other hand, I believe we can still define different levels of effects, using minimal descriptions. For example, there is clearly a very low effect, when there is slight euphoria. Then a stronger level, when the visual effects appear, but only as 2D. Then another level, when the plane opens up in 3D, etc. My question is if there is a stronger level of effects than the one I will describe below.
When the effects were in full swing, my body was anaesthetised. I had a sleep mask and ear plugs on, so the stimuli during the effects originated only in my imagination, I wasn't responding at all to my external environment. I think this minimalistic setting was more practical for my objective to determine the different effect levels.
My body (i.e, I) pictured involuntarily a moving 3D plane overlaid with detailed, intricate, changing patterns. I also pictured a lot of activity and movement in the 3D plane, the activity involving the geometrical patterns that overlaid the plane. And I pictured the impression of interactions, and the part of the mind that responds to verbal communication was definitely engaged (this is, I think, what other people refer to as "meeting entities" ). There was a distinct feeling that it was "right" for the brain to react to those stimuli. My musical thinking was also active, I was working out melodic motifs and rhythms in my imagination.
Do you think first-order effects stronger than this are possible? Could you describe them?
Thanks
P.S.: After typing this, I read a number of essays on this forum about "hyper slap" black-outs, and the effects described seemed stronger.
I am very careful now about always starting with small doses because the right dose can paint a beautiful picture, result in eye candy, cause much pleasurable sensations, give valuable insights; while that a 100+mg dmt trip obliterates you absolutley. In the worst experiences "I", my conciousness as well as my physical brain, have been so saturated by DMT that my brain has been crushed by it. It felt like the heaviest metal in the world fell on my brain and crushed me for 1 or 2 minutes. At other times I have felt my brain smash into firm walls while in full breakthrough visuals. High doses feel as painful as they sound. There is some insight though...before this I had never known what it would be like to be crushed like that. Another strong experience (80-100mg dmt+harmalas) had me follow a line with eyes at impossible speed and it was so hard fo handle and red sirens were going off and eventually this line came to a hault and exploded in in 8 different directions, forming alarm bulbs at the end of the lines aswell as a dog whose limbs seperated from its body (sort of like in a caricature how the top of their heads lift off and go back down when they calm down.) Basically a thousand ways of screaminfmg DANGER, TOO MUCH.
