RayOfLight
Rising Star
just a quick poll on what people make of dmt visions, do you think they are real in any way?
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Are visions 'real' ?
- Thread starter RayOfLight
- Start date
What is real? how do you define real? If you think real is something you can taste, smell, see and touch then real is merely electrical signals being interpreted by your brain - morpheus :lol:
Your not going to get any definite answers to that question..only personal opinions. So yeah i think the visions are real. They feel much more real than the present moments degree of realness. What real really means and what kind of real they are i don't really know. Some seem to be of mind, others of alien worlds, imagination, memories, ect ect, and any mix possible.
Your not going to get any definite answers to that question..only personal opinions. So yeah i think the visions are real. They feel much more real than the present moments degree of realness. What real really means and what kind of real they are i don't really know. Some seem to be of mind, others of alien worlds, imagination, memories, ect ect, and any mix possible.
Of course they are real. Everything you experience is real in the sense that you have an experience of it. But as UniverseCannon says, what kind of real they are I have no idea - and moving down that road is as of the present time just speculations.
They are real in that they occur in your mind but that's about it. They are not necessarily real in that when you see an entity it is a separate physical real entity. It could very well just be an illusion brought about by a mind on a drug.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
i haven't seen a thread on it , maybe i need to look harder?88 said:
RayOfLight
Rising Star
I guess to further define what I'm getting at , is it insane to be thinking these experiences are real and maybe there actually are inter dimensional beings trying to communicate with us?
Or do we go with the scientific method and believe nothing more?
Or do we go with the scientific method and believe nothing more?
Hmmm, interesting questions. 
Recommended reading:
Spirituality and Materialism
or any topics in the 'Philosophy/Spirituality/Science' forum having 100+ posts in it.
Recommended reading:
Spirituality and Materialism
or any topics in the 'Philosophy/Spirituality/Science' forum having 100+ posts in it.
Agreed with Citta, if you experience it how can you doubt it? I usually doubt interpretations and try to come up with at least 3 or 4 different ones to keep limber, but the actual experience? Doubting your own fundamental experience seems like a quick way to robot-insanity.
A question that is asked often, but that has no general answer.
1. Some visions are clearly the product of my mind.
2. Some are a strange melding of my subconscious and the external immaterial realm.
3. Some are self-evidently, undeniably real. Asking if these experiences are real is like asking if your experience of reading this sentence is real.
Something I’ve been thinking about lately is the variability of DMT experiences between individuals.
Research has shown that about 5% of people are unaffected by DMT (Strassman). So if you were to ask one of those people if the visions are real, they’d respond with “What visions?”
Some individual’s experiences may be limited to relatively simple geometric patterns and colors, similar to the moments before a breakthrough. These people will say that the visions are a product of the brain.
Others may only experience visions of the first type – visions that are clearly the product of mind, and they will respond as expected.
Not everyone has experiences/visions that are self-evidently real. Those who don’t will (appropriately enough) doubt the external reality of their experiences.
Here’s a logically reasonable statement:
Those who doubt or outright deny the external reality of their DMT-induced visions haven’t yet had an experience that has convinced them of the external reality revealed while under the influence of DMT.
Our experiences shape our beliefs, and without certain belief-changing experiences, by definition, there can be no change in belief.
1. Some visions are clearly the product of my mind.
2. Some are a strange melding of my subconscious and the external immaterial realm.
3. Some are self-evidently, undeniably real. Asking if these experiences are real is like asking if your experience of reading this sentence is real.
Something I’ve been thinking about lately is the variability of DMT experiences between individuals.
Research has shown that about 5% of people are unaffected by DMT (Strassman). So if you were to ask one of those people if the visions are real, they’d respond with “What visions?”
Some individual’s experiences may be limited to relatively simple geometric patterns and colors, similar to the moments before a breakthrough. These people will say that the visions are a product of the brain.
Others may only experience visions of the first type – visions that are clearly the product of mind, and they will respond as expected.
Not everyone has experiences/visions that are self-evidently real. Those who don’t will (appropriately enough) doubt the external reality of their experiences.
Here’s a logically reasonable statement:
Those who doubt or outright deny the external reality of their DMT-induced visions haven’t yet had an experience that has convinced them of the external reality revealed while under the influence of DMT.
Our experiences shape our beliefs, and without certain belief-changing experiences, by definition, there can be no change in belief.
RayOfLight said:
Ray, ray, ray... did you get nothing from our conversation last night? You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific method. It doesn't simply dismiss untested hypotheses, it investigates them.
Of course some people may be inclined to suspect nothing more because that seems most parsimonious with the available data. Of course I believe it is internally real, in the sense that you experience it. Beyond that, I can't be sure, but I'm inclined to doubt that it has any external reality.
But personally, I really don't find the possible external reality of the question to be relevant. I find the value in the DMT experience to be self-evident without that question requiring an answer.
gibran said:
That's a complete cop-out. You can just as well say that those who outright deny the external reality of Allah have simply not had an experience that reveals to them his reality.
It really says nothing at all, and I think it's more than a little presumptuous to believe that your personal experience of deep DMT experiences should be shared by everyone... and if their experience differs from yours, you basically dismiss it as missing something.
A DMT trip is an inner journey. Yes it is real but it is a real part of your mind not some magical dimension. DMT trips are a exploration of the self. However I say this as an opinion. I cannot state this as an absolute fact as there is no proof and scientists often have said something was impossible only to later to find out that they were dead wrong. Remain deeply skeptic but try to keep an open mind. It's a thin line to walk and we all stray.
It’s not a cop-out at all. My point wasn’t to show that I’m somehow “special” regarding my DMT experiences. I was trying to show that there is significant variability in what people experience.Entropymancer said:
Some people experience no effects at all. Some may experience only physical sensations. Others may experience simple geometric visuals. Others may experience visions of childhood memories or other obvious internal phenomena. Many (not just me) experience self-evidently real realms of existence.
When we talk about DMT experiences on this site, I believe that some people assume that the way they experience DMT is the way that everyone (or nearly everyone) experiences it. This isn’t true.
And for this reason, we have to be careful about making claims regarding the internal vs. external, real vs. not real debate. If someone has never had a self-evidently real DMT experience, then it’s perfectly understandable that he’d say the experiences aren’t real. And if someone has a self-evidently real experience, it’s reasonable that he’d say the experiences are real.
Our experiences shape our beliefs. Different experiences, different beliefs.
And regardless of what each of us believes, remember that they are beliefs. Not proven facts, not eternal truths. Just beliefs.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
gibran2 said:
I would have to agree with this because personally I believed in nothing before having an experience of becoming pure energy and merging with all that is on a Dmt trip. I've only had a few of those kinds of experiences and had I not had them I wouldn't be thinking this way I don't think
RayOfLight
Rising Star
UniverseCannon said:
I agree with this too. It is personal opinion and that's why i started this thread,
to see what kind of percentage of people on the nexus accept what they experience on
Dmt as just as real if not more real than what they normally experience in everyday life , or if people accept only what can be proven with the scientific method to be real.
My argument for my belief is simple. if what we experience in this reality is nothing more than electrical signals in the brain and we take it as real ,
then we have to take altered states of consciousness as just as real because they amount to the exact same thing. I personally believe there is only one thing that exists and that's consciousness and everything else including physical reality is an illusion and that what we call laws of physics can be broken if you know how to do it ( and no I'm not saying i know how to do it )
thats my two cents
and thanks for all the feedback everyone
Why do so many people seem to feel that the only two options are it’s all a “part of your mind” or it’s “some magical dimension”?vovin said:
There are billions of stars in our galaxy. There are at least billions of galaxies in the observable universe. It’s possible that there are billions of universes in a larger “multi-verse”. We know so little about the world around us, and we know even less about the inner world of the brain, the mind, and consciousness. Much of reality is still a mystery. And like every other animal on this planet, human being’s have limited cognitive capacity. There may be things in reality that are simply beyond our human capacity to understand.
I don’t believe in magic. But there are many things we know and take for granted today that would have been a complete mystery and considered magic not too long ago. Is it too hard to imagine that some things which seem to be “magic” today will be taken for granted in the not-too-distant future? Unless we destroy ourselves, I believe it’s a certainty that some things which are beyond our imagination and comprehension today will be commonplace sometime in the future.
So why can’t the “immaterial realm” be real? Why can’t there be a scientific explanation for how our brains are able to “tune in” to this other realm? It’s not necessary to reject logic, rationality, and science in order to believe that there is a reality beyond our everyday experience. It’s not either-or.
What makes one dmt trip more or less real then any other one?
That’s a good question. What makes our waking reality more real than a dream? It simply is.burnt said:
If what I’m seeing, hearing, and otherwise experiencing is totally unlike anything I have ever seen, heard, or otherwise experienced, then I find it hard to believe that the experience is anything but real. If not, then where did the imagery come from? When the imagery and other properties exceed my brain’s creative capacity by many orders of magnitude, then what other explanation is there?
In my deeper journeys, I don’t see anything that resembles anything in my ordinary life. No people or animals or plants or anything else that’s familiar, no clowns or jesters. No spaceships or stereotypical aliens, no elves, trolls, or fairies, or any other fantasy beings. Yet the things I see exhibit an astounding level of detail, complexity, and coherence. The entities, objects, and environments are unlike anything I could imagine, yet there they are, right in front of me.
I believe that what I experience is real not because I want to or need to believe it, but because it’s easier to believe it than it is to believe any other alternatives. If our brains are capable of creating new worlds, worlds completely alien and utterly astonishing, worlds of such detail and complexity and beauty, what does that say about our brains? Our minds? What does it say about this reality? Because to deny the reality of what I sometimes see would necessitate a serious questioning of this “consensus” reality.
Touche Guevara
Rising Star
Reality is that which exists independent of our perception. I have yet to see evidence that hyperspace exists other than as a construct of our minds.
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