Are you free yet...???

[christian]

Thanks for your positive comments, smokerx

As a reply to all the responses so far:-Yes, i do mean what i posted, and posted with sincerity. I didn't mean to sound like i'm condascending, and certainly am not trying in any way to try and sound superior. These are simply my own thoughts...... I truly believe that 90% of the population are sleeping. As a very crude example :They get up go to the jobs they dislike, and work excessive hours out of bad habit and put up with people they dislike and would otherwise never meet. They then spend the remaining time watching television, and do their religious practice on a Sunday, etc..They are unhappy because somehow they find this life unfulfilling, and their religion doesn't quite "hit the spot". Because of fear and lack of free time, They don't have the position allow themselves to question why they do what they do-They just do it out of habit. They are choosing to limit themselves.

-As i said before, when i say Psychadelics can help people to become free, i mean free from the conditioning of society, so that they can see the bigger picture. Perhaps this would allow them to stop clinging onto a system and being like a rat race, and more in tune with their individual selves, etc. It is also widely reconise that Psychadelica help to "dissolve" conditioning, and thus allow one to retune into their original true selves.

-I disagree with the idea that Psychadelics simply alter brain chemistry, and that hallucinations are not real. Many people are thinking that perhaps the so called hallucinations, are really our access to other realities we normally are asleep to. Our waking "reality" might be considered as a controlled hallucination, and our dreams, or psychadelic realms may actually be a more honest and truer "reality".

-From what i have so far read and understood, Powerful psychadelic experiences allow those that partake to realise that many humans are conditioned by society, and are not truly awake to the vast, incredible possibilities that there are. In Hyperspace there are no limits. Whatever humanity has done so far is mostly nothing compared to what really can be. Surely this is enough reason for us to simply stop chasing limiting religions, overworking and overconsuming out of fear. Perhaps then society would relax and start to live a sweet life, rather than a stressed and fearful one ??8)

 

[obliguhl]

just because psychedelics put me on MY correct path doesn't mean that I'll reach the conclusion any faster than someone who took a different one. All roads lead to home, imo.

Another nice one from adyashanti...he thinks of himself as a welcoming matt...and that it would be rather stupid to say "Oh great welcoming matt! I know you lead the way through the door, i worship you!" instead of just going through the door.

In the same way, psychedelics are also helpers.
I'm not sure if it makes any sense to see them as some sort of magic bullet. Yes, they are powerful, but only if someone is ready to change, change will happen.

 

[christian]

just because psychedelics put me on MY correct path doesn't mean that I'll reach the conclusion any faster than someone who took a different one. All roads lead to home, imo.

Another nice one from adyashanti...he thinks of himself as a welcoming matt...and that it would be rather stupid to say "Oh great welcoming matt! I know you lead the way through the door, i worship you!" instead of just going through the door.

In the same way, psychedelics are also helpers.
I'm not sure if it makes any sense to see them as some sort of magic bullet. Yes, they are powerful, but only if someone is ready to change, change will happen.

-Very true. Once the facts are known, the path is clear.

>We all make decisions in life, from whatever information and choices are available. However, unfortunately some "sacred" knowledge had been supressed from society untill recently. But thanks to a ressurgence in alternative therapies, and especially the Nexus- that is no longer an issue...8)

---May we all stand up, and rejoice in this news that "the cat is out the bag", and wants you all to know that there is hope. There is hope in a place where money has no meaning..Hallelulia brothers and sisters!!...:d :d :d :d

 

[onethousandk]

No offence mate but who are you to judge Christian than? Nobody should judge other people nor you nor anyone else.

I did not feel his statement really judgemental I agree with all he said. The truth is that people are sleeping and do not see that there is more to the life than what they are experiencing right now.

How do you not see the irony in this series of statements?

Statements = plural - I was commenting on only one statement = singular and I definitely don't see any irony in it.

Lets ask Christian - did you write that statement as a irony or did you really mean what you said in it ???

Onethousandk if you were referring to some other statement that you have to be specific otherwise I would not know what you are talking about

How can you say that no one has a right to judge anyone else and then in the very next sentence you make a judgement on (as christian put it) 90% of the population. You calling them asleep is a judgement.

 

[jamie]

you judge every single day whether you think you do or not. You judge the distance from your car to the next car in traffic so you know when to stop..you judge that guy on the bus who starts talking to you so you can intuite how to respond..you judge you're realtion to you're new boss at work and then act accordingly..we all judge things and other people. That is the way it is. The idea that you cant judge other people is lame. You dont have to look down on other people, but you still judge them. Do you see a junky in the ally outside your home and think about how great it would be to be them? Probabily not. You judge them..maybe you feel sorry for them, which is you judging the situation. Everyone does it, and there is nothing wrong with it. If we were not constantly doing this we would get nowhere..that does NOT mean that we should belittle others or look down at them as lesser beings..but I definatily see some people are less conscious of themselves and they're environment. Yeah I judge them..big deal.

I guess you could say that it is best not to judge people..but to judge the situation, of which they themselves are an aspect of.

okay, well..I see this whole arguement as rediculous in one sense..

Why?...because IMO alot of people here, and in the psychedelic culture in general are more "awake" or aware, conscious etc than the magority of society. That is just the way it is. Of course it is not set in stone that psychedelics will make you that way..but they do seem to put people often on that path, where initially someone sees a greater reality/gains new insight into our world and life etc and often that leads them to want to learn more. This is not really something that is new to the psychedelic experience.

It is not only psychedelic users but that is one example..having been to war in one sense would make one more aware of just how horrible war can be..something someone who sits at home cheering on the troops could never understand experientially.


I used the example of LSD already..but I will use it again. There are studies that have found that LSD has very little action on the left hemisphere of the brain. People who take it that have had right brain hemiphere removal do not usually have psychedelic experiences at all from LSD. LSD acts on the right hemisphere of the brain..it does not degrade left lobe functioning or anything like that..it just activates the rigfht brain. In that sense LSD does definatily make someone more "awake" than someone not under the influence of LSD..they would very literally have more of the brain functioning all at once. If people really want to look into this more I can dig up the name of the doctor who did these studies later on and post it.

 

[onethousandk]

If people really want to look into this more I can dig up the name of the doctor who did these studies later on and post it.

I would be very interested in this.

 

[dmtk2852]

I used the example of LSD already..but I will use it again. There are studies that have found that LSD has very little action on the left hemisphere of the brain. People who take it that have had right brain hemiphere removal do not usually have psychedelic experiences at all from LSD. LSD acts on the right hemisphere of the brain..it does not degrade left lobe functioning or anything like that..it just activates the rigfht brain. In that sense LSD does definatily make someone more "awake" than someone not under the influence of LSD..they would very literally have more of the brain functioning all at once. If people really want to look into this more I can dig up the name of the doctor who did these studies later on and post it.

I'm still waiting on data to back this up because I have never heard anything remotely close to this. As I have already stated the right brain is not inactive, you use both lobes frequently on a daily basis. LSD, as far as I know, works by binding to 5-HT-2A receptor sites and having some effect there, it has nothing to do with right-left brain function. Of course, you could post evidence of these "studies" which may give your view some credence.

 

[Dorge]

People are free and super fun to make.

 

[Madcap]

People are free and super fun to make.

hehehehe

 

[jamie]

I used the example of LSD already..but I will use it again. There are studies that have found that LSD has very little action on the left hemisphere of the brain. People who take it that have had right brain hemiphere removal do not usually have psychedelic experiences at all from LSD. LSD acts on the right hemisphere of the brain..it does not degrade left lobe functioning or anything like that..it just activates the rigfht brain. In that sense LSD does definatily make someone more "awake" than someone not under the influence of LSD..they would very literally have more of the brain functioning all at once. If people really want to look into this more I can dig up the name of the doctor who did these studies later on and post it.

I'm still waiting on data to back this up because I have never heard anything remotely close to this. As I have already stated the right brain is not inactive, you use both lobes frequently on a daily basis. LSD, as far as I know, works by binding to 5-HT-2A receptor sites and having some effect there, it has nothing to do with right-left brain function. Of course, you could post evidence of these "studies" which may give your view some credence.

Left in the Dark

This is a totally new way of looking at the evolution of the human brain. It is so totally fresh, unexpected and hitherto un-thought-of that it will probably take a long time before evolutionary anthropologists and psychologists begin to take it on board; but it will make an impact, of that...

books.google.ca

The study is mentioned at the bottom of page 4.

Edit..okay here is the study..

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0028393265900199

"Thus it was shown that the right (minor) temporal lobe group was characterized by more perceptual responses under LSD-25 than the left group and that this difference persisted post-operatively. It was also shown that the operation resulted in a decrease of such responses, in both groups."

"The results were interpreted as supporting the claim that the perceptual effects of LSD-25 in man depend, as they do in animals, on the temporal lobes"

Obviousily they word it much better than I..but it is apparent that LSD does not effect the left and right hemisphere of the brain in exactly the same ways..and that the the removal of the minor lobe resulted in a decrease of perceptual effects from LSD-25.

 

[christian]

As long as you follow the rat race, go to sunday mass, watch reality tv, eat ready meals, drink beer and smoke cigarettes, then you are "as free as a bubble", in an unopened can of coca cola!! :lol:

 

[dreamtimereturn]

What about you christian?
what are you doing to hopefully change someones perspective on the matter of psychedelics? or anything else..

cause i've noticed the more you tell people/loved ones/anyone that they're missing out on something fundamental, the less they want to try anything that you're offering.. and of course i agree, it's insulting.

i've gotten so hung up on the fact that you really can't change peoples minds and you really can't show someone else what you mean, you can try. i've been going on with my life holding on to this "i can't believe people don't see this, why aren't ewe doing anything about it, and what the hell is going on" generally.
but i'm seeing now that you gotta flower souly yourself, man !

All i can say right now is that i think i see what you mean. i understand that you've traveled? seen more of the world than maybe some of us here have.. share your wisdom my friend, don't tell us what we already know
travel stories~

don't leave yourself out christian, discover truly YOUR own goals and try not worry so much about everyone elses. i agree with alot of what you're saying, but there are many, many creative ways to go about handling these issues.
and if you look around alot of things are being taken care of as we speak, in my own little fold of reality anyway, i'm seeing subtle changes..

 

[christian]

Thanks dreamtimereturns,

-But i'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm actually expressing my innermost thoughts as they occur, and hope that they can assist those that perhaps need them. Actually i had these kinds of insights many years ago. Travelling is wonderful for allowing one perspective from "living in the system".

-My travels meant that i lost a lot of earnings through not working, and i also spent all my savings. I worked out that thanks to my travels i have lost at least $200,000, but gained 10 years of incredible experiences instead. Please don't take this as some casual brag-it's not, because i sometimes wish i worked and got some place first, so that i could have rent it out-and be travelling NOW, instead! :lol:

-But what's money anyhow, eh??...Just some prop to sucker us into sticking into the "money making system", rather than seeing what's going on elsewhere??!...The amount of people i met on my travels who are so glad that they got out of that "high earning" money trap, and travelled instead is phenomenal. Life should be all about making positive experiences, and most certainly NOT about making lots of money : Who started that ridiculous money is everything mindset anyhow??...probably some lost government ---- sucker!! :lol:

--Thanks for your concerns, but i'm fine thanks. I'm just sorry if my posts perhaps seem offensive to some people and maybe i sound like i'm stating the obvious a little. But let's never underestimate the power of simplicity. We easily are led away from simplicity into complexity in todays age with so much noise and bullshit. It's nice to get back to basics, and ESSENTIAL. 90% of "normal life" these days amounts to utter nonsense in terms of where we should really be. In many ways we haven't grown at all, we've just swivelled on the "same old dull shit" instead!

--People have to find out for themselves what works for them, like i did, and you did. One day we will all be free, then we will die, and who knows...:surprised 8)

 

[Dorge]

As long as you follow the rat race, go to sunday mass, watch reality tv, eat ready meals, drink beer and smoke cigarettes, then you are "as free as a bubble", in an unopened can of coca cola!! :lol:

Really mature perspective you have there...
I can tell you got your phd from the institue of transpersonal psychology...

 

[christian]

haha, actually i got it from "the university of life". :lol:

 

[jamie]

I deleted the last 2 posts becasue you guys posted the exact same comments to each other twice, which is pointless. If you dont agree you dont agree..we dont need a repeating loop of posts.

 

[Citta]

Thanks dreamtimereturns,

-But i'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm actually expressing my innermost thoughts as they occur, and hope that they can assist those that perhaps need them. Actually i had these kinds of insights many years ago. Travelling is wonderful for allowing one perspective from "living in the system".

-My travels meant that i lost a lot of earnings through not working, and i also spent all my savings. I worked out that thanks to my travels i have lost at least $200,000, but gained 10 years of incredible experiences instead. Please don't take this as some casual brag-it's not, because i sometimes wish i worked and got some place first, so that i could have rent it out-and be travelling NOW, instead! :lol:

-But what's money anyhow, eh??...Just some prop to sucker us into sticking into the "money making system", rather than seeing what's going on elsewhere??!...The amount of people i met on my travels who are so glad that they got out of that "high earning" money trap, and travelled instead is phenomenal. Life should be all about making positive experiences, and most certainly NOT about making lots of money : Who started that ridiculous money is everything mindset anyhow??...probably some lost government ---- sucker!! :lol:

--Thanks for your concerns, but i'm fine thanks. I'm just sorry if my posts perhaps seem offensive to some people and maybe i sound like i'm stating the obvious a little. But let's never underestimate the power of simplicity. We easily are led away from simplicity into complexity in todays age with so much noise and bullshit. It's nice to get back to basics, and ESSENTIAL. 90% of "normal life" these days amounts to utter nonsense in terms of where we should really be. In many ways we haven't grown at all, we've just swivelled on the "same old dull shit" instead!

--People have to find out for themselves what works for them, like i did, and you did. One day we will all be free, then we will die, and who knows...:surprised 8)

One question first christian: if you don't work, where do you get your money from?

Now, money may seem like a silly concept to you, but the idea of having some kind of medium of exchange goes back thousands of years. How should we get by without a medium of exhange? Now, you may propose that we just give things for free, but I hope you don't seriously think that would work. Usually something is demanded in return in the long run, so that things may go round. We give and exhange services somehow, and have always done this - either through money or some other form of trade (cows, services, land, food, whatever). We may not like it, but this is simply the state of affairs in our human condition, it's pretty inevitable.

I agree that the most ideal thing is to fill life with positive experiences only, but this is too simple. Life is very strange and complicated, and I honestly would never trade away some of my very bad experiences and moments in life for better ones. It makes us grow, it makes us feel alive, it teaches. Life is what it is, both good and bad, and it is beautiful this way - it is life. I also agree that just making a lot of money isn't what it all it should be about, and I think that more people than you seem to think agrees with this, but it's nevertheless pretty necessary to earn some money to get by. If it were not money, it would probably be something else that we would work for.

You also seem to miss the fact that working and building society is about a collective effort to grow, to solve problems, to individually get by in life but also to let others get by. This is one side, and naturally there will always be things that are not perfect (like some of the things you mention). But this doesn't make all of society bad, neither does it rule out everything that you may find meaning in doing. You talk alot about "seeing the bigger picture", and I would argue that seeing the bigger picture really is to see all of humanity, see all of society, see past our own perspectives and experiences, understand our very deep and complex history and see your place within the masterpiece that is the human drama - not to fall outside and sit there criticizing everything you can possibly think of that is wrong with the world. Get inside, make an effort, make a difference!

Psychedelics are not going to save humanity. Why? Because it is more complicated than that, because not all people would benefit from it and there are certainly more pressing matters in science, politics and economics that will not be solved by simply tripping balls and "connecting with the universal consciousness" or whatever. I am sorry to say this, but you seem hopelessly naive and lost in your own psychedelic perspectives if you think that psychedelics is the end all answer just because you feel some big truth has been communicated to you. Yes, I have smoked DMT, yes I have talked to entities, yes I have melted with God (whatever that is), but I will not fall in the trap of limiting my perspectives to the degree of simplicity and naivity that constitutes the single belief that psychedelics will fix everything. Because they won't. Psychedelics will not fix our global natural crisis, our problems in politics and economics, our search for better and less polluting materials and energy resources, in our search for knowledge about our world, in our search for medicines to cure horrible diseases and in our effort to save human lives and make life here on earth better. They may help and inspire us, depending on who we are and what we do, but they themselves are not the saviour of humanity. Humanity is the saviour of humanity. Our collective effort is the saviour. Please, I urge you not to romanticize psychedelics so much as you do. Try to understand that life is more complicated than that, that there has to be great effort with many methods used to collectively grow, and that we are different from one another.

That we have not grown at all is simply not true, and claiming so shows a lack of understanding and insight into our history, our sciences, our politics, our history of ideas and so on and so forth. It also ignores that in all times and at all instants through our collective history, some things have been good, other things have been bad. And with change new things naturally follows, some bad some good.

Look closer, christian

 

[christian]

Citta.

Whilst i agree with most of what you say, i still believe that we today are a lost people because we have listened to other people/advice-obsessed thoughts, etc, rather than trust what comes from "the universal consciousness". I really do.

--Governments, Police, Society are all things that are examples of what goes wrong when we listen to the wrong voice. I really doubt that Governments, Police , "society", really has anything to do with living a simple happy naturally intended by "god" life. The reason why we need police is to stop people from attacking each other from living in an unnaturally close society anyway. Put us in the open spaces of nature and we won't need protection from police, or help from governments. NO, nature will naturally keep us in place without such "assistence".

-Please realise that when i say this, that i am saying this from a place of ignorance to what we have now in todays society. What i'm trying to say is that i really think that us humans were a lot happier and more naturally stimulated before we "needed" modern day comforts.

--I understand that the human race needs to evolve, but i wonder if we are "all in our heads with the enemy", or listening to true wisdom. 8)

 

[dmtk2852]

I used the example of LSD already..but I will use it again. There are studies that have found that LSD has very little action on the left hemisphere of the brain. People who take it that have had right brain hemiphere removal do not usually have psychedelic experiences at all from LSD. LSD acts on the right hemisphere of the brain..it does not degrade left lobe functioning or anything like that..it just activates the rigfht brain. In that sense LSD does definatily make someone more "awake" than someone not under the influence of LSD..they would very literally have more of the brain functioning all at once. If people really want to look into this more I can dig up the name of the doctor who did these studies later on and post it.

I'm still waiting on data to back this up because I have never heard anything remotely close to this. As I have already stated the right brain is not inactive, you use both lobes frequently on a daily basis. LSD, as far as I know, works by binding to 5-HT-2A receptor sites and having some effect there, it has nothing to do with right-left brain function. Of course, you could post evidence of these "studies" which may give your view some credence.

Left in the Dark

This is a totally new way of looking at the evolution of the human brain. It is so totally fresh, unexpected and hitherto un-thought-of that it will probably take a long time before evolutionary anthropologists and psychologists begin to take it on board; but it will make an impact, of that...

books.google.ca

The study is mentioned at the bottom of page 4.

Edit..okay here is the study..

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0028393265900199

"Thus it was shown that the right (minor) temporal lobe group was characterized by more perceptual responses under LSD-25 than the left group and that this difference persisted post-operatively. It was also shown that the operation resulted in a decrease of such responses, in both groups."

"The results were interpreted as supporting the claim that the perceptual effects of LSD-25 in man depend, as they do in animals, on the temporal lobes"

Obviousily they word it much better than I..but it is apparent that LSD does not effect the left and right hemisphere of the brain in exactly the same ways..and that the the removal of the minor lobe resulted in a decrease of perceptual effects from LSD-25.

Interesting post but I'm still not convinced. That study was conducted in the 1960s first of all, well before MRI technology effectively disproved the right/left brain hypothesis. Secondly, the study was conducted in a very unusual way, the doses of the drug were minute, at least a third of what the typical LSD blotter dose was in the 1960s. Secondly, they conducted the study by comparing questionnaires given during the participant's drug trip. That is not a very effective measure of response in my opinion. Lastly, they conducted the study with almost double the amount of right brain participants, vs left brain participants. That surely skews the results in favor of the right brain group as more participants gives more chances to produce the desired response.
This study would never be taken seriously in modern psychology or neurology/pharmacology. We abandoned these types of studies long ago, because studying a broken system is not the best way to learn about that system.
We can actually measure today what is happening to a healthy brain under the effects of psychedelic drugs. The majority of the interaction involves binding and effects(agonistic) at the 5-HT-2 receptor sites,so many studies have shown this it is essentially proven. That is the what modern pharmacology has shown, and I'd rather trust that than one study conducted almost 50 years ago, with clearly flawed design. This is based on what I could read in the free preview, if I had a full copy of the study I'm sure I would be able to explain this better.
Thought I would add a new modern literature review of the pharmacology of LSD. Compare this to the article you posted and you will see that we have learned a lot more about the pharmacology of psychedelics than we knew in the 1960s.
Pharmacology of LSD

 

[Voidwalk]

Enlightened, not free.
All we can do is enjoy this experience of physical life, and spread love and happiness, hoping that the people we come in contact with find inner peace.