Here's something I've mentioned earlier today which seems worthy of attention considering my preference for the use of ascorbic acid when brewing harmala-containing material:
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Ascorbic acid - safety note
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Incredible timing—last night I was looking up the effects of using ascorbic instead of citric for various teas and/or leaf extractions (primarily with fresh kratom and guayusa). Decomposition is what made me concerned. Good to know I wasn’t overthinking.
Funny. I was lying in bed last night when the thought just popped up… rue-salvia co-telepathy?
Ah! Thanks a lot! I've been using ascorbic acid for my weekly rue tea. Before I was using citric acid but I found that ascorbic didn't make me as nauseous. But I will shift back now and try to see it there are something else I can do to reduce it.
I eat plants that might already have oxalic acid so I don't need any more of that.
I eat plants that might already have oxalic acid so I don't need any more of that.
Weekly use should be fine, especially if you have an equivalent amount of calcium added at some stage of the brewing process, e.g. through the use of hard tap water. How much ascorbic acid have you been using? The maximum amount of oxalic acid produced will be roughly 50% of that amount, and can be neutralised by about 23% its weight of calcium. This would equate to 57mg of calcium carbonate per 100mg ascorbic acid, just off the top of my head - and not all (dehydro)ascorbic acid decomposes to oxalate anyhow.
Check by calculation:
C₆H₈O₆ - 2H → C₆H₆O₆ [mw = 174]
C₆H₆O₆ + 2H₂O → C₄H₈O₄ + (COOH)₂ [mw = 90]
(COOH)₂ + CaCO₃ [mw = 100] → CaC₂O₄↓ + H₂O + CO₂↑
90 mg oxalic acid resulting from 176 mg ascorbic acid gets neutralised by 100 mg calcium carbonate, so that resulting from 100 mg ascorbic gets neutralised by 100*(100/176) ≈ 56.8 mg calcium carbonate
Of course the point is not so much the neutralisation but the insolubility of calcium oxalate, which is both the main reason behind its toxicity as well as a practical solution to the issue.
Seems like your top of the head is working very well
I've been using ~1g of ascorbic acid each time. I don't have any calcium carbonate right now and the water here is quite soft. But I do have some old gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate) from making tofu the chinese way. Might that work?
Anyhow I think I'll switch back to citric acid next time.
Thanks again!
yes, although you'll get sulfuric acid as a byproduct (not really a problem at this concentration), plus it might be inefficient from the individual powder grains becoming coated with an insoluble layer of calcium oxalate. This would mean you'd have to use more than a stoichiometric amount of gypsum, as well as adjusing the amount according to the MW of your gypsum, hydration included. Fortunately, compared with chalk, that would be a matter of multiply by that MW taken as a percentage, since the MW of chalk is conveniently 100.
I'd be tempted to try a Manske using calcium chloride solution, then the stoichiometry for oxalate precipitation would be largely irrelevant.
What mass of seeds do (did) you cook per gram of ascorbic?
